Architect Archive
Thread: Idea's For Arch/Crafter in the GCW
Crimsonsplat
Thu Aug 26, 2004 3:05 pm
#14
Heh, an actual debate without folks abusing each other? That's almost quaint! 
Ok, you're right about the upside of your idea; I just think the downside is a LOT worse. There's practically no way you can avoid someone mounting a surprise attack on your city, factories, harvesters, etc. I do think it would have the effect of making people concentrate in one area.... as it is, I'm crafting in this shop on Tat, the DE is1km away, the armormaster is halfway across the planet, the doctor is on Talus. If your scenario were true, we'd re-deed everything in order to have a dense, defendablecity center with the clone center being the hardest thing to get to, and the 2nd hardest being the structure factory. And I'd have multiple deeds on me at all times. (It would be funny in a way.... "Cover the mayor, he's about to replace the clone center!")
But the costs of such losseswould be more than the average player would want to put up with, especially when you consider the collateral damage of losing everything inside the PA hall, including the guild treasury!!! If I spent hours decorating the place, I donot want to have to do it all over again, just to have it wiped outonce more the next night. I think that eating that kind of loss would make people bail out of the game pretty quick.
So.... How about this: No city buildingsare actually destroyed, except for things like lampposts. (Saleable item!) Instead,they are"disabled."The buildingwon't perform whatever function it hasuntil it's been "fixed" with a repair kit. (Saleable item!).If the City Hall (of a factional city) gets taken down, then ALL civic buildings inside the city limits stop functioning for one hour or until the City Hall is repaired (whichever is longer--and no buildingcanbe redeeded.) This represents a "win" for the attackers. No building can be disabled more than oncein72 hours (except it can be killed on it's own, and again by a city hall 'kill'). Which means you can go visit the attackers tomorrow night for some payback, and still have a night off to goof around in PVE. :-) Needless to say, City Halls would have high resistances and alot of hit points. This should be balanced so that an attacker who is evenly matched with the defender (including factional turrets, etc) would win maybe 1 time in 4 -- it should be doable but not a given, so there's some real bragging rights to it. Personal homes do not suffer this penalty (or maybe they should? Arguments either way, anyone?)
Non-civic structures such as factories and harvesters should be immune to this. The reason I say that, is I'd bet we're going to be under enormous pressure from our guilds to give "freebie repair kits." Having to absorb combat losses on top of that would be ridiculous.
Combine this with my original ideas above. Comments?
Crimsonsplat
Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:39 am
#15
Actually, I agree with most of it... and I'm glad to see some feedback from somone with experience in the GCW, which I don't have.
You know, I had a funny thought yesterday: by asking the combat classes (almost) exclusively, the devs are talking to the wrong people--those mentally geared to tear things down and/or give themselves big advantages in fights. But this entails building a system, with checks/balances, advantages/disadvantages, and everything fits together when it's done.
That's a crafter's job. Weird, ain't it?
Crimsonsplat
Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:41 am
#16
Ok, I've copied everyone's posts to a text file, and now I'm trying to build up an outline with everyone's ideas. May not have much time to work on it until sunday, but I thought I'd expand on an idea I had earlier (the "base camp") and post a piece of it.
New factional structure:
Staging Camps: Schematic requires FP, and is assembled by a Scout.sed when attacking enemy base.Comes in three varieties, requiring ascending skill levels (exact boxes TBD, except the best will probably require master.) Becausethese have to be light and quickly moved/set up, they do not use hides and bone, butrequire synthetic fabric from a Tailor & aluminum. Not certain whether the artisian should have to contributespeederbikes (this would raise the price significantly). Higher level camps may require non-factional components from other crafters. These are considered TEF'd structures and can be attacked and destroyed (though it's not easy). These structuresare timed, and will despawn after two hours.
Strike Camp: Similar in appearance to medium camp.Little more than a couple of tents and enough room for 2-3 entertainers/doctors to work.Comes withone free unarmed “armored speederbike” (high HP/resistancesor PSG?) which disappears when it is destroyed or the camp is taken down/despawns.
Commando Camp: Similar to the current large camp; bigger and contains a 0.00 food/chem station, two speederbikes, and defensive screen (everyone inside gets benefit of a fairly powerfulPSG). Requires synthetic fabric, metal, & some of the items needed for the station + armorsmith items needed for the PSG.
Assault Camp: even bigger; has food/chem station, stronger defensive screen,portable clone center, light crew weapon, three armed and armored speederbikes. Requires components from AS, WS, Art.
Damaleon
Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:39 am
#17
I like the ideas of a shield generator and the various plants. I would go so far as to require that a shield generator be placed to faction the city, and you could only add the plants and other structuresafter the generator was placed.
Say, if you place a shield generator, you can set a daily or weekly cycle, where the city is vulnerable to attack from the opposing faction for several hours on a daily cycle to a full day, possibly two, on a weekly cycle. Any time an enemy tries to enter while the generator is active gets a message saying they can't enter, and a timer saying when it will go down is displayed. Those that are the same faction can enter and get the same timer, and nuetrals see nothing.
Power plant- instead of fully powering things in the city, raise the effectivness of power in the factories and harvesters to 1000, effecively giving you 2 units for every unit you added,or shift the consumption, so personals are 0 uph, mediums 25 uph, and heavies become 50 units per hour.
I like the idea of crafting turrets. It could involve the whole town and many professions. One possible list of sub-component ingredients:
6 similar wall units - architect
4 laser rifles - weaponsmith
4 similar control units, 2 power distributors, 1 micro sensor suite - master artisan
1 droid brain, 8 capacitor discharge units - droid engineer
2 shield generators - armorsmith
Something like this would require a decent size group, or a lot of credits to make, but would certainly be a way of bringing together players. Different parts for different sized turrets too.
linusboarder
Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:23 pm
#18
It is amazing What can happen when people have a debate and realize that peoples suggestions are for the purpose of making things better, not to get on other's nerves. It is nice to have a civil conversation.
Crimson-That was a very astute observation you made about crafters coming up with ideas to build and make checks and balances, while the current PvPers tend to just have ideas about destruction.
I like the idea about only having the facility attackable during certain times, but i think making it attackable 24/7 might also make things interesting too. It would add an element of espionage, and planning to the game (if it is attackable 24/7 then the defenses would have to be strong enough to withstand attacks from at least 15 master combat professions.)But i bet if it is done right all that could still be incorporated.(maybe there could be a way to figure out when the shield generator is going down, and it could be stolen by opposing factions... but i digress.)
I was talking to my guildmates on my guild forum, and many of them brought up a point that this may force cities into going factioned, even though the city prefers neutrality.. so after talking with them i had an idea to keep people and cities from being forced into PvP, however there needs to be a way to make cities that ARE PvP actually follow the rules of PvP (The city i live in now has a high imp population, but we are very happy being neutral because most of us don't want to be in PvP all the time, and most aren't even interested in PvP.) There should be two types of guild... Town and Factional guilds. Now the town guild works the same way as it currently does, but the factional guild is something that can be placed in the town by the mayor (the factional guild). Now as the factional guild grows it would require certain buildings to accomidate the guildmates (i.e. medical centers/ Cloning centers/ bases and other military structures.) These would follow all the rules that we have been talking about.
I know this is another wrench in the plan, but i think that this would be a good way to keep people who don't like PvP away from PvP.
What do you think?
Crimson-That was a very astute observation you made about crafters coming up with ideas to build and make checks and balances, while the current PvPers tend to just have ideas about destruction.
I like the idea about only having the facility attackable during certain times, but i think making it attackable 24/7 might also make things interesting too. It would add an element of espionage, and planning to the game (if it is attackable 24/7 then the defenses would have to be strong enough to withstand attacks from at least 15 master combat professions.)But i bet if it is done right all that could still be incorporated.(maybe there could be a way to figure out when the shield generator is going down, and it could be stolen by opposing factions... but i digress.)
I was talking to my guildmates on my guild forum, and many of them brought up a point that this may force cities into going factioned, even though the city prefers neutrality.. so after talking with them i had an idea to keep people and cities from being forced into PvP, however there needs to be a way to make cities that ARE PvP actually follow the rules of PvP (The city i live in now has a high imp population, but we are very happy being neutral because most of us don't want to be in PvP all the time, and most aren't even interested in PvP.) There should be two types of guild... Town and Factional guilds. Now the town guild works the same way as it currently does, but the factional guild is something that can be placed in the town by the mayor (the factional guild). Now as the factional guild grows it would require certain buildings to accomidate the guildmates (i.e. medical centers/ Cloning centers/ bases and other military structures.) These would follow all the rules that we have been talking about.
I know this is another wrench in the plan, but i think that this would be a good way to keep people who don't like PvP away from PvP.
What do you think?
Circe' Pojia
linusboarder
Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:25 pm
#19
Crimson
Thanks for putting all this together... I am glad that you are doing this. Hopefully the Devs will actually see this...
Nah Probably not, The devs don't look at Crafters Forums
Thanks for putting all this together... I am glad that you are doing this. Hopefully the Devs will actually see this...
Nah Probably not, The devs don't look at Crafters Forums
linusboarder
Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:27 pm
#20
One more thing i forgot about the 2 guilds idea... sorry
In order to be involved in factional PvP you must be a part of one of these factional guilds, however you don't have to be involved with one based in your city. (someone who lives in a neutral city could still be a part of PvP, but they don't have to live in an all Imp or all Reb town.)
In order to be involved in factional PvP you must be a part of one of these factional guilds, however you don't have to be involved with one based in your city. (someone who lives in a neutral city could still be a part of PvP, but they don't have to live in an all Imp or all Reb town.)
FeydSWG
Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:55 pm
#21
I like that idea quite a bit... be able to construct buildings and furniture based on your current faction rank (higher rank, better faction schematics become available to craft for your brothers in arms).
Granted, then I'd have to level a second architect of the opposing faction just so I can keep a full stock of everything 
linusboarder
Wed Sep 01, 2004 10:43 am
#22
Crimson... you got that list yet? I wanted to see what it looks like
Crimsonsplat
Thu Sep 02, 2004 10:40 am
#23
I may not complete it after all Linus. I like the ideas and I love crafting but the last few weeks of turmoil in the merchant and Architect professions has really been wearing on me. My business went to hell, and I've struggled to keep my harvesters in power.For them to have the idiotic bugs they've had after taking an extra week to "polish" the release was just one more straw. I'm not enjoying crafting for no point; I do it so people can have the pleasure of finding what they need.
Andeven putting down an extra house isn'thelping my inventory issues much. I need two characters but I will NOT spend the extra money justbecause this game is broken.
Last night I finished off Merchant for the badge, then began working on regaining my combat skills. I'll be running up some new items of stock to sell for money (so I won't lose the harvesters) but odds are, I'm leaving the Architect profession and transitioning into resource sales only while I work on a combat/Jedi template. Maybe I'll return to crafting when they give Architects a renewable sales ability.
Thanks for all the fish....
linusboarder
Sun Sep 05, 2004 6:29 pm
#24
No problem crimson...
Hopefully they will listen to some of our ideas and that way being an architecht will be profitable and actually meaningful, but they never listen to crafters... all they focus on is combat anyways, not realizing that combat is only fun if they have something to build on.
Architect is so bad, i tell people i picked up armorsmith to support my architect habit... and i wish it was all a joke. Maybe i will leave arch soon, especially since they aren't going to do anything with it soon.
Anyways i enjoyed our conversation about it... hopefully they pick up on some of our ideas... i think it could save the GCW, but maybe the Devs only care about peace in the galaxy, so they are making the GCW not worth fighting.
Good luck
Yoss
Hopefully they will listen to some of our ideas and that way being an architecht will be profitable and actually meaningful, but they never listen to crafters... all they focus on is combat anyways, not realizing that combat is only fun if they have something to build on.
Architect is so bad, i tell people i picked up armorsmith to support my architect habit... and i wish it was all a joke. Maybe i will leave arch soon, especially since they aren't going to do anything with it soon.
Anyways i enjoyed our conversation about it... hopefully they pick up on some of our ideas... i think it could save the GCW, but maybe the Devs only care about peace in the galaxy, so they are making the GCW not worth fighting.
Good luck
Yoss
linusboarder
Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:52 pm
#25
This thread's been idle for a little while... i am hoping posting something else will get something going again.
I would love to hear people's ideas
I would love to hear people's ideas
cripplestickmickII
Wed Sep 22, 2004 4:52 am
#26
Ok, I haven't read the rest of the thread, but I have mentioned a few times about faction specific career missions, in the case of the artisan how about 'A new base is being built on Planet X as part of out war effort in that sector. We need you to make (5 walls, 20 structure units, whatever!) to assit us. Here have some money and a box to put it in.'
Or for the masters ' Here is a base schematic, make us a base deed'
But as always, make the pay worth it, some of the craft missions I have done have taken HUGE amounts or resources for very little pay, I am not asking a lot, just can we get missions that pay us say 5credits per resource unit used? considering the amount of stuff we use....
Edric (scylla galaxy - Master Artisan. Architect 0223, Novice droid Engineer. Big Game Hunter.)