Architect Archive
Thread: A Miners Message: Sent To Thunderheart
Taco_Panocea
Sat Jun 12, 2004 9:39 pm
#196
I see a fix by just removing the administrator option on harvesters. That would reduce the amount of lot trading miners andthe amount of static harvesters. It would reduce the amount of a specific resource mined ona server which would also reduce the number of "clone" crafters.
Taco_Panocea
Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:40 pm
#197
TheOxygen wrote:
Taco_Panocea wrote:
I see a fix by just removing the administrator option on harvesters. That would reduce the amount of lot trading miners andthe amount of static harvesters. It would reduce the amount of a specific resource mined ona server which would also reduce the number of "clone" crafters.
And, as I've attempted to point out, it will shut down "legit" operations such as myself and other resource miners. On top of this, there isn't suffecient evidence that a "fix" is needed. In the future, please read more than the first page or first post before responding to a topic.
I get the impression that the most vocal opponents against large resource dealers are those who run small crafting businesses. They have this utopian view of the game where any crafter or business should be a small-time operation. However, the nature of competition (and the drive that some of us have that will not allow us to remain a small business) dictates that this is impossible to achieve.
Also, where do people get the impression that static fields are constantly pulling up the best resources? This is quite the opposite, as most anyone who has run a large static field can verify.
--Iaan K'Vork
Why would it shut down your "legit" operations? If you have a total of lets say 10 accounts you should have to work 10 times as much as a person who has 1 account. Isn't that fair? You are the one who chooses to leave the harvesters on 1 spot not caring about concentration or material. There are other players who do care and work more than you do moving harvesters around.
The fix needs to be done and you are just fooling yourself thinking devs wont do anything about admin on harvesters. The fact is that you are too lazy to log all accounts to loot the harvesters/addpower/add maitenance. The admin fix wont shut your bussiness down you are the one who chooses to shut it down. You want an advantage because you own more accounts than a person who owns 1?
As for me being small time.... I own 4 accounts and I only need 1 to have you and your resources business for breakfast.
Message Edited by Taco_Panocea on 06-12-2004 10:49 PM
ThothTheWise
Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:58 pm
#198
Taco_Panocea wrote:
Why would it shut down your "legit" operations? If you have a total of lets say 10 accounts you should have to work 10 times as much as a person who has 1 account. Isn't that fair? You are the one who chooses to leave the harvesters on 1 spot not caring about concentration or material. There are other players who do care and work more than you do moving harvesters around.
The fix needs to be done and you are just fooling yourself thinking devs wont do anything about admin on harvesters. The fact is that you are too lazy to log all accounts to loot the harvesters/addpower/add maitenance. The admin fix wont shut your bussiness down you are the one who chooses to shut it down. You want an advantage because you own more accounts than a person who owns 1?
As for me being small time.... I own 4 accounts and I only need 1 to have you and your resources business for breakfast.
Message Edited by Taco_Panocea on 06-12-2004 10:49 PM
By "legit" operations Mate he is refering to the practice of miners to RENT the lots of other players WITHIN the same server in order to place more harvestors.
You possess a very accusing tone, yet your knoweldge of this thread seems to be limited. There is no way a "miner" of ONE account can compete with a "Miner: possessing Multiple acounts or one who Runs Mobile Harvestors that have quanitiy over ten by means of Renting their lots.
This is not about people mining a great deal in order to CRAFT...very very VERY few Miners actually use their own resources. While we may some, we simply pull way to much...Hence the Vocation of MINER...not CRAFTER.
Taco_Panocea
Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:17 pm
#199
ThothTheWise wrote:
Taco_Panocea wrote:
Why would it shut down your "legit" operations? If you have a total of lets say 10 accounts you should have to work 10 times as much as a person who has 1 account. Isn't that fair? You are the one who chooses to leave the harvesters on 1 spot not caring about concentration or material. There are other players who do care and work more than you do moving harvesters around.
The fix needs to be done and you are just fooling yourself thinking devs wont do anything about admin on harvesters. The fact is that you are too lazy to log all accounts to loot the harvesters/addpower/add maitenance. The admin fix wont shut your bussiness down you are the one who chooses to shut it down. You want an advantage because you own more accounts than a person who owns 1?
As for me being small time.... I own 4 accounts and I only need 1 to have you and your resources business for breakfast.
Message Edited by Taco_Panocea on 06-12-2004 10:49 PM
By "legit" operations Mate he is refering to the practice of miners to RENT the lots of other players WITHIN the same server in order to place more harvestors.
You possess a very accusing tone, yet your knoweldge of this thread seems to be limited. There is no way a "miner" of ONE account can compete with a "Miner: possessing Multiple acounts or one who Runs Mobile Harvestors that have quanitiy over ten by means of Renting their lots.
This is not about people mining a great deal in order to CRAFT...very very VERY few Miners actually use their own resources. While we may some, we simply pull way to much...Hence the Vocation of MINER...not CRAFTER.
You dont seem to realize you are a minority. The fact is the majority of large resource dealers do server lots trades or buy bulk from ppl who do server lot trades (with or without knowing). The developers will fix the majority. While you are paying the rent for those "legit" harvesters have the owners take care of them for you. The fix needs to be done.
ThothTheWise
Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:38 pm
#200
Explain WHY it needs to be done. There is to much assuming going on. Hence this post. opinions mean little without a thought behind them to assist the rest of us in understanding your position. otherwise why post?
Taco_Panocea wrote:
You dont seem to realize you are a minority. The fact is the majority of large resource dealers do server lots trades or buy bulk from ppl who do server lot trades (with or without knowing). The developers will fix the majority. While you are paying the rent for those "legit" harvesters have the owners take care of them for you. The fix needs to be done.
ThothTheWise
Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:52 pm
#201
Ok..I'll try one more time in the Vainest Hope someone actually reads befor posting.
- I operate a FRICKIN HUGE mining business (300+ harvs) all Lot Traded.
- The demand for this size of service is/ will soon be GONE with the advent of Pub 9.
- The Devs are considering a way to "fix" cross server (note the term is CROSS SERVER) Lot Tradeing as they are "blank toons" that onloy add to the economy without serving any drain..hence screwing up the "vision"
- Value judgments on if cross server Lot Trading is right or wrong is Moot..its done and the Ethics of it isn't the issue (considering the Devs have known about my operation in detail since the first of this year and havent asked me to stop)
- IF they take the easy way and Remove admin fromALL (with the possible exception of housing)structures save for those who drop them...How will that effect those who: A) do Same Server Lot Rentals B) The "average Joe Casual Gamer
- With the Release of Publish 9 Does any sort of fix even need to be done (if its JUST a Harvesting issue)
THESE are the topics under discussion.
Thank You for reading befor giving your Position on these matters.
I'Thoth
destrkta
Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:03 am
#202
i don't understand why you are complaining. ok cross server trade lots for static harvesters i won't use as i don't have a use of crappy resources and thats all they are really good for. I do in server trade lots to get resources for armoursmith alot of specific named resources that only spawn good once every 3 months if you are lucky. With the devs limiting us to 100k stacks and components of 25-100 mostly on the smaller end it becomes unfeasible to run a armoury business.
destrkta
Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:04 am
#203
i don't understand why you are complaining. ok cross server trade lots for static harvesters i won't use as i don't have a use of crappy resources and thats all they are really good for. I do in server trade lots to get resources for armoursmith alot of specific named resources that only spawn good once every 3 months if you are lucky. With the devs limiting us to 100k stacks and components of 25-100 mostly on the smaller end it becomes unfeasible to run a armoury business without x-server lot trades for houses. Why waste the use of guild member lots on houses when they could be better used. Also if they take admin off harvesters it will turn into such a pain in the neck getting all the resources that i harvest. with 4 characters using 30lots of my own, and the occassional borrowing of lots from friends when there are 2 good spawns out. Just be too much hassle.
Giamai
Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:24 am
#204
joined42904 wrote:
I understand that admin on houses has an advantage. It seems that many of those advantages would be kept even if resources were made un-adminable...a differentclass of item that you couldn't pick up even if on admin unless you were the owner. And of course picking up any container with resources in it counts as picking up the resources themselves. You could then drop anything but resources for a non-owner to pick up. And you could even drop resources in the person's OWN house, just not in your house. That doesn't seem too restricting to me, Giami. Does it to you?
can't say i really see what problem you are trying to solve with this idea..sharing resources is as much a part of guild crafting life as sharing houses is and for many people that is actually the point in sharing houses, to store shared resources. if it is because of excess resources, i don't think that will continue to be too much of a problem after the end of hologrinding, if there truly is an excess of resources out there. there are already people complaining that their resources aren't selling anymore. do i think its restrictive? yes i do actually. i can live with certain restrictions if they solve an existing problem which is why i feel like i can learn to live with removing admin on harvesters if it keeps cross-server trading to a minimum. but i don't see this idea as helping anything at this point simply because the problem you may be attempting to addressis not too clearly defined in the current state of most servers economies and may not exist at all within a few short weeks.
Brilyn
Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:00 am
#205
Dropping Admin rights is a pain in the neck.
I have two factories passed to another member of my guild (Structure and Equipment, 3 lots), just to free up lots. I plan to pass on more lots to other guild members, simply to free up my 10 lots for Harvesters.
Dumping Admin will inconvenience me in a large fashion.
Harvester Certification is a mess that people will quit the game over.
I would like to see a Maximum number of lots per account.
Maybe not just 10, as some people have more than one charactor.
But something akin to that would make the cross-server trading less viable.
As for grind resources being unused......
Get me 1 million ore, I'll need the same again tomorrow. No, I'm not grinding.
Ditto for Aluminium, Copper, Steel, Inert Petrochem, Reactive Gas, and most everything else.
I'm not grinding. I'm an Architect.....
GraySeven
Sun Jun 13, 2004 8:55 am
#206
MinerMighty wrote:
Spacesloth, what makes it acceptable for combat oriented professionals to suppliment their income through mining (an artisan and crafter trait) without using up additional skill points, and not acceptable for dedicated crafting professionals to suppliment their income through combat without picking up additional combat skills?
This argument doesn't work. Combat-oriented professions can supplement their income by mining with harvesters, but Crafting-oriented professions make their money crafting, and any money they earn mining is also considered supplemental. Mining is not an artisan and crafter trait or skill, surveying is. With surveying, you get an ability that gives you a bonus in that it allows mining to be more profitable. So, an Artisans advantage is in being able to place harvesters on a high-density, resource-specific site ensuring that they can pull out good resources at a lower cost per unit...
The rantings over on the Artisan board for Harvester Certification are all about people trying to make a starting profession as profitable as the elite professions by monopolizing what they wrongly feel is their exclusive ability to mine. Using any of their "arguments" for certification isn't a good way to give pro's and con's of cross-server trading.
joined42904
Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:12 am
#207
I agree with the need for guildhouse malls. And for that reason I would of course favor a "vendor list" permission on guildhouses which though not admin works similar to an entry list and also allows for the placement of vendors. It is possible to allow vendors without allowing full admin even on city and guildhouse malls.
The problem that you don't see Giami is that large storage of resources is facilitated by cross-server lot exchanges under the present system. That is as much a problem as the harvester part of these exchanges. Granted that you have to trust someone a lot more to use that person's structures as a storage facility....
Of course I think there need to be special warehouse structures to store bulk resources anyway. So that I don't store 100,000 kgs of various resources in a tidy little backpack in my small house (times 150).
Even if resources aren't selling, they will likely be kept until at least the JTL expansion to see if they regain value at that time.
Taco_Panocea
Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:00 pm
#208
Thought the reason was quite obvious and mentioned in this thread before. The majority of large resource dealers or suppliers abuse the ability to make 5 other characters on other servers to gain lots on one server for a total of 60.Miners who abuse that abilitytoplay on different serversinorder togain lots have an unfair advantage over minerswho dont abuse it 6:1.
ThothTheWise wrote:
Explain WHY it needs to be done. There is to much assuming going on. Hence this post. opinions mean little without a thought behind them to assist the rest of us in understanding your position. otherwise why post?
Taco_Panocea wrote:
You dont seem to realize you are a minority. The fact is the majority of large resource dealers do server lots trades or buy bulk from ppl who do server lot trades (with or without knowing). The developers will fix the majority. While you are paying the rent for those "legit" harvesters have the owners take care of them for you. The fix needs to be done.
If this enough?