Architect Archive
Thread: A Miners Message: Sent To Thunderheart
ThothTheWise
Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:11 pm
#209
Yes.
Now tho, having both agreed that it WILL come to an end...there were or are two ways that have been mentioned. One is a blanket nerf of all admin functions. The second is potentially some kind of Harvestor Certification.
What do you see as the ramifications to people other than yourself (in otherwords try to think from other peoples standpoints) of a sweeping Nerf of the Admin function or Harvestor Certification, if any, to both the Casdual gamer as well as to those like you and I who happen to Power Game.
Another thing I wish to keep repeating is that in this free market economy (if it indeed is such) will the Natural flow of supply and demand Fix most instances of this problem without a need for a nerf in and of itself?
The Massive Lot Trade situations occured because of the mess that was the Holo Grind. With its demise some here think that there is then no need to place Artificial Control Mechanisims on something that may auto correct itself.
In otherwords, How would you fix the situation while still making the possession of structures as less of a tedious chore (remember there are casual gamers about) as is possible?
Message Edited by ThothTheWise on 06-13-2004 12:14 AM
Taco_Panocea
Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:24 pm
#210
Well, the problem with the harvester certification is that it would probably be placed in someprofession. People who want to abuse the system will grind the prof. whichhas the certification. Sadly, you only need to grindthe profesion which has the certification oncefor every characrter. Some people will propose that the certification should be placed on a box which requires a lot of skill points. To the large dealers this will make no difference, and they will spend the skill points required to accesstheir harvester fleet. Furthermore, many people have more thanone accountand could use just oneof them for the certification. By having a certification on the character you will just create a work around for the "fix", and dont doubt people will use it.
There are plenty of other ways to make credits in this game other than selling resources harvested by other people'sstructures. I suggest you find one that you enjoy.
Message Edited by Taco_Panocea on 06-13-2004 12:45 AM
TheOxygen
Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:46 pm
#211
Taco_Panocea wrote:
Thought the reason was quite obvious and mentioned in this thread before. The majority of large resource dealers or suppliers abuse the ability to make 5 other characters on other servers to gain lots on one server for a total of 60.Miners who abuse that abilitytoplay on different serversinorder togain lots have an unfair advantage over minerswho dont abuse it 6:1.
If this enough?
This arguement is invalid because the people who do lot trades are using them for static harvesters, which will be ineffecient for pulling up quality resources. They're great for getting grind stuff, but the demand for grind materials will drop to virtually nil after the next publish.
Please re-read the whole thread, I've stated this all before.
Also, with regards to you comments about my mining operations, I suggest you reread the thread for my posts specifically, since they clearly outline how I operate my business and how a change on admin rights would effectively put me out of said business.
--Iaan K'Vork
TheOxygen
Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:52 pm
#212
Taco_Panocea wrote:
Well, the problem with the harvester certification is that it would probably be placed in someprofession. People who want to abuse the system will grind the prof. whichhas the certification. Sadly, you only need to grindthe profesion which has the certification oncefor every characrter. Some people will propose that the certification should be placed on a box which requires a lot of skill points. To the large dealers this will make no difference, and they will spend the skill points required to accesstheir harvester fleet. Furthermore, many people have more thanone accountand could use just oneof them for the certification. By having a certification on the character you will just create a work around for the "fix", and dont doubt people will use it.
There are plenty of other ways to make credits in this game other than selling resources harvested by other people'sstructures. I suggest you find one that you enjoy.
Message Edited by Taco_Panocea on 06-13-200412:45 AM
As a fellow player, I don't tell you how to play this game, so I have to ask who died and made you a god that tells me how I should enjoy a game that I pay for? Don't even start on this arguement, because you will not win and only make a fool of yourself.
Let me restate, for the upteenth time, why cross-server lot trading will cease to exist:
STATIC HARVESTERS = GRIND RESOURCES
NEXT PUBLISH = NO MORE HOLOGRINDING
STATIC HARVESTERS = USELESS
I'm sincerely hoping you have the ability to comprehend these large red letters, because you obviously have failed to comprehend anything else I've written in this entire thread.
--Iaan K'Vork
Taco_Panocea
Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:53 pm
#213
Your suggestion will only reduce the amount of harvesters per server. With the example given the miner who abuses the system has twenty lots and the miner that doesnt has ten. Lot trade static harvesters will still be around.
ThothTheWise wrote:
good points.
Would the ability to only be placed upon Admin of only so many structures total, as has been suggested, be of any better benifit to ending this practice?
IE: My main would only be able to be placed on the admin list of 10 structurs total over and above his initial 10 lots.
The feeling is that if they make it harder the practice will cease to exist yet still allow small conglomerates of On server Lot "trading" or rentals to be effective.
Taco_Panocea
Sun Jun 13, 2004 12:59 pm
#214
TheOxygen wrote:
Taco_Panocea wrote:
Well, the problem with the harvester certification is that it would probably be placed in someprofession. People who want to abuse the system will grind the prof. whichhas the certification. Sadly, you only need to grindthe profesion which has the certification oncefor every characrter. Some people will propose that the certification should be placed on a box which requires a lot of skill points. To the large dealers this will make no difference, and they will spend the skill points required to accesstheir harvester fleet. Furthermore, many people have more thanone accountand could use just oneof them for the certification. By having a certification on the character you will just create a work around for the "fix", and dont doubt people will use it.
There are plenty of other ways to make credits in this game other than selling resources harvested by other people'sstructures. I suggest you find one that you enjoy.
Message Edited by Taco_Panocea on 06-13-200412:45 AM
As a fellow player, I don't tell you how to play this game, so I have to ask who died and made you a god that tells me how I should enjoy a game that I pay for? Don't even start on this arguement, because you will not win and only make a fool of yourself.
Let me restate, for the upteenth time, why cross-server lot trading will cease to exist:
STATIC HARVESTERS = GRIND RESOURCES
NEXT PUBLISH = NO MORE HOLOGRINDING
STATIC HARVESTERS = USELESS
I'm sincerely hoping you have the ability to comprehend these large red letters, because you obviously have failed to comprehend anything else I've written in this entire thread.
--Iaan K'Vork
Resources will always sell. Players come and go and so do resources. People will still grind professions. People get bored of playing the same professions and switch constantly. You mean to tell me all the people who buy resources from you are hologrinding? Not sure which game you are playing.
Same suggestion goes for you. Find another way to make credits other than sell resources harvested using other people's harvesters.
Ill play your game, if resources wont sell... Why do you want toaccess other people'sharvesters?
Message Edited by Taco_Panocea on 06-13-2004 01:10 AM
Dvnce
Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:34 pm
#215
ThothTheWise wrote:
ok, valid points and i do not really disagree with the viewpoint.
What I am curious to ask tho is: is there a place for the "casual" part time Crafter who is supplied their resources from other avenues than them harvesting them themselves?
while it is possible (and profitable) for many crafters to mine their own resources, it is also time comsuming and labor intensive. This is one reason Vocational Miners have sprung up. Is this good for the economy or is the "vision" of the perfect economy that crafters are self suppliers of their own raw materials?
I am far from causal player.. and I Hired miners to mine almost all my resources... It can be done.. for me .. and for the casual player.. Hiring Live .. active players to mine for you.. sure the prices may need to rise up a bit to accomodate the more active participation to those who now will need to put forth more effort to get those resources.. but I have always said price increases arent a bad thing..
ThothTheWise
Sun Jun 13, 2004 2:52 pm
#216
Hello again Sir =)
well I continue to ask variations of the same questions just to see what other folks think / see things.
I live on LOK and rarely ever leave the planet. I mine and ocassionally Hunt on LOK and do little else. I have been playing since early Beta and have seen every planet and fought on them...the new content is geared more to groups, and well...the current Pick Up group situation on Lowca is far from what I am used to =P Since I feel that I am "out of the Loop" as most folks play..I tend to ask alot of questions in order to try and see things from their view points =)
I thank you greatly for yours =)
I'Thoth
Fuss
Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:32 pm
#217
Yea actually its a very valid question. Basicly everyone turned a blind eye when we realized we were going to be hit by rampant hologrinding absorbing a huge amountof the resources, plus citys and so on. But we are defintly coming to a stage in the game were we are going to have a lull it looks like until the space expansion. They could have a formula that changed the concentrations on the planets based current server economic statistics, but that would take some thought. Supply and demand work well, but we want new players to be able to have some fun to attract active participants in the economy. I think if everyone would just start stockpiling for the space expansion and stay out of the markets for the most part or form a trade federation or something, or ease up on output it would help some. If this was the real world I would never givethis advice but it isnt and people need to have fun to keep them here. The real world we are just born into...
We (server) also may be running the risk of putting a large percentage of our Credits into Structure Upkeep that isnt being replaced by the player base killing mobs. It all really depends on how well the Space Expansion is recieved, or who knows maybe the Jedi change will help. Many unknowns when it comes to programmers 
.
.Fuss Bango (Chilastra)
Master Merchant/Artisan/Musician/Retired Arch
Ewach
Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:12 pm
#218
/sigh So many posts, didn't quite make it through them all.
Ok.Let's assume they {somehow} prevent ,or make more cumbersome, cross server lot trading.
Now that has just given those able to afford multiple accounts a BIGGER advantage over single account players.
Currently, those with single accounts can use cross server (or same server) lot trades to compete with peer crafters using multiple accounts.
Look at the stats from the "how many accounts do you pay for" survey. There's more people with 9 or more accounts than there are that have 5, 6 or 7 (if I recall correctly).
Does anyone think one person has the time to actually play 9 different characters to any significant degree?
Fuss
Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:21 am
#219
I just dont believe we need inactive players that are never going to contribute to the economy mining with 10 heavy harvesters. It doesnt balance. Its already way too easy to gather all the resources you need with just 10 Lots. I was even semi guilty of this myself with an extra acount.
Fuss Bango (Chilastra)
Master Merchant/Artisan/Musician/retired Arch
ThothTheWise
Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:26 am
#220
ok, valid points and i do not really disagree with the viewpoint.
What I am curious to ask tho is: is there a place for the "casual" part time Crafter who is supplied their resources from other avenues than them harvesting them themselves?
while it is possible (and profitable) for many crafters to mine their own resources, it is also time comsuming and labor intensive. This is one reason Vocational Miners have sprung up. Is this good for the economy or is the "vision" of the perfect economy that crafters are self suppliers of their own raw materials?
Fuss
Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:33 am
#221
I don't care about a perfect economy because the advantage of a really free economy is that you will never be able to pin it down. But there is literally 100's of millions of resources stockpiled on most of the servers, and there is just going to be way too many resources. Let a guy be able to throw up a few harvesters and make a decent bit of cash, don't flood the market, ease up. I initially supported anyway to give the servers the best resources possible for the best goods, but my server Chilastra has many many exceptional crafters in every class, and we arebecoming a big bloated whale. Space Expansion!!
Fuss Bango
Master Merchant/Artisan/Musician/Retired Arch