Architect Archive

Thread: /pay command isn't working on harvs and factories + arguing with Pawlin thread

bluejanus
Sun Aug 14, 2005 2:59 pm
#118

Lot swapping has made it easier for people to break into the crafting market by making resources more accessible.

Btw, Pawlin, you're wrong about that ex-miner. While he made use of a lot of lot rentals, he did use lot trades. His subs and lieutenants did more than him, but his organization used a lot of lot trades.





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
Pawlin
Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:01 pm
#119






bluejanus wrote:
...
Btw, Pawlin, you're wrong about that ex-miner. While he made use of a lot of lot rentals, he did use lot trades. His subs and lieutenants did more than him, but his organization used a lot of lot trades.





I assume we're talking about the same guy. I saw him claim more than once that he didn't use lot trades and he was pretty negative about them.


Did he tell you otherwise? Or how do you know?




Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
bluejanus
Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:05 pm
#120



Pawlin wrote:


bluejanus wrote:
...
Btw, Pawlin, you're wrong about that ex-miner. While he made use of a lot of lot rentals, he did use lot trades. His subs and lieutenants did more than him, but his organization used a lot of lot trades.


I assume we're talking about the same guy. I saw him claim more than once that he didn't use lot trades and he was pretty negative about them.
Did he tell you otherwise? Or how do you know?




I knew a number of his lieutenants and subs. I knew they used lot trades extensively. When he was breaking up the company, he sold off a bunch of static harvester lots. Presumably lot trades. They may or may not have been his trades personally, but he had the admin on them. Of course they could have just been static in-server ones, but that's probably not likely.





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
bluejanus
Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:06 pm
#121

He's not an ex-miner, he's back. Greatly reduced. Controls only around 40 lots.





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
Pawlin
Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:12 pm
#122

Hmm. Maybe he started out anti- lot trades but then changed his mind. I'm pretty sure he was against them initially. Might have just been BS talk though. /shrug. Or it might have been his partners that did it more and he just either didn't know or ignored it.


Irregardless, whether he did it or not, its not impossible to run a large mining operation without lot trades.


I'm sure that Cafa can testify to that.







Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
bluejanus
Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:12 pm
#123

Btw when someone else has access to around a dozen or so accounts' lots, exactly how do you compete against that?





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
bluejanus
Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:14 pm
#124



Pawlin wrote:

Hmm. Maybe he started out anti- lot trades but then changed his mind. I'm pretty sure he was against them initially. Might have just been BS talk though. /shrug. Or it might have been his partners that did it more and he just either didn't know or ignored it.

Irregardless, whether he did it or not, its not impossible to run a large mining operation without lot trades.

I'm sure that Cafa can testify to that.





Not impossible, but it is a lot of work. It became a second job for the guy in question. I joke that architect is a second job for me, but for him it WAS second job.





Isander Aperin - Kettemoor Master Architect (home: Serenity, Naboo)
Structures vendor in the HorkCo Shop near Coronet, Corellia (CLOSED)
Structures vendors in the Mos Mesric Mall near Mos Espa, Tatooine (CLOSED)
Structures, jedi kit, crafting station and resource vendors in Serenity near Kaadara, Naboo (CLOSED)
Pawlin
Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:18 pm
#125






bluejanus wrote:

...
Not impossible, but it is a lot of work. It became a second job for the guy in question. I joke that architect is a second job for me, but for him it WAS second job.





Yeah operating a large static field or any large number of lots is going to be a big time investment. It doesn't matter if they are rented or lot swapped. I figure I spend 1-2 hr a week running my Sunrunner mining operation with just the 15 statics I've got. The more you have the more efficient and less time per harv but with 100-200 harvs you're still probably talking several hours a week just to maintain them for most folks.


I figure the difference between rented and lot swapped is that rented costs you more and you have to take 2 minutes to do /tip once a week.




Pawlin Construction of Kettemoor.
Harvesters and Crafting stations - Triad Coronet Mall just outside Coronet (-177 -5490)
Architect, House, Furniture, Harvester FAQ

Oprolan the Wookiee of Sunrunner. Cheap resources W. Daeric Talus (-639 -3058)
"Worst FF ever *thumbsdown*" -- Pawlin fan club
"I am not going to win Miss Congeniality again this year in the Senate." -- John McCain


** Please refer to Elyssa's answer
Akkori
Sun Aug 14, 2005 3:27 pm
#126

Thats why I gave it up. And I only ran about 400 at my peak. That was my whole game. Literally. This was during the hologrind, so I bet about 90% of what I sold got burned right away. But I skimmed the cream of the crop for my personal collection, of course! I am down to the very low 9 digits now. So I am also in a position to speak intelligently on the issue. I could make life really hard for any DE or Architect on my server if I wanted to. WS too, if I could get my hands on a certain couple specific good spawns. But I dont even think about it because I dont want to be the guy who makes someone else quit SWG because they are only interested in the "thinking" part of the game. I have seen a couple Guildies quit in the past because they could not make a decent living under the shadow of the one man WalMarts. BTW, decent is defined as being able to do more than just pay your maint costs and replace your equipment once a month. There are things like financing a dream city, opening a school to train others, running a Guild, donating money generously to help those in need, being able to aquire the little perks like a skill tape or two, or that awesome looted weapon or component. Buy BE enhanced clothes, etc......


"Decent" is defined by the individual, but I bet almost everyone will agree that having barely enough to pay up your maint and keep enough wind power lying around is not "decent". THats not fun. And I try my very hardest not to be a stumbling block to someone else having fun in this game. Making use of massive resources to flood a market with product, and bringing the cost down to razor this margins might be fine for you, but what about everyone else. Like has been said many many times, like it or not, higher prices are not a Bad(tm) thing. Anyone who complains about paying over 200k for a permenent harvester can kiss my big toe. I ask them about the 17 million credits they spent on a stupid ADK.




Odano Akkori
First Mayor of Tempest
Jaxian Bay
Elder DE, Rifleman, Swordsman

Jedi will never be a starting profession...Looted items and quest items will never be better then crafted items, this is not a loot based game...CH will return shortly...CH and BE will not be back in game...Rangers are getting their revamp next!...The stealth system will not be changing in the spy expertise...Need any more examples of things the devs said that did not hold true?
Okitaa
Sun Aug 14, 2005 4:39 pm
#127


Or you could do like me. Make your own harvestors. Ask guildies to place them and put you on admin. and thats it. Static spawn for as long as I want. If I don't need 40 Heavy Minerals anymore I just say hey can you pick it up? and its done with. Guildies who only do combat profs could give a crap less about how many lots they have. This method doesn't require lot swaps or paying money to use someones lots....




Okita
Aeschyl + Okita = Perfect
I love you Greg
Cafa
Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:05 pm
#128






Pawlin wrote:






Pawlin wrote:





Ardelis wrote:




Of course the game can run w/o lot swappers,...






The yellow bit there is my point....





The game can run without lot swappers.


This is what I mean when I say that we do not NEED them.


Why are you continuing to debate that point???







At one time, I was easily number one or two for daily architectural sales on Tempest. I'm not now because I choose not to do so. I did it then without lot swaps originally (because I didn't see how they worked until someone else mentioned it). Have I lot swapped? Yes. Do I wish to continue to do so? No.


The WHY there is because I do see that it is preventing commerce from occurring. The introduction of swappers taking over the ore contracts that originally ran out of Jaxian Bay and Freedom Forge (for Tempest historians) destroyed a large part of the game for those people. But, OTOH, it supplied the insane demands of the hologrind so I can understand why it (insane lot management) became the manner to acquire things cheaper.


Today, the swappers no longer change 1, 1.5 or 2 cpu. They charge 3+, same as the miners before did. That's called cornering the market. No one is willing to stay in it for the long run because there is no long-term benefit to making credits in the game anymore. Credits mean nothing if you have to be CL80 to enjoy 95% of the content of the game, IMO. The entire CL system requires specialization now for everything. There are no mixed templates that can actively survive content in the game if that template is not 100% combatant. So, we have either total loot commerce, or multiple characters being required to ultimately survive the fauna and make credits, much less content.


The problem here is that lot swaps CONTINUE to be the most efficient means around this limitation. I almost invite the collapse that will occur when they implement solution X to stop swaps as it will finally show the glaring holes in the devs' economic model brought on by the inclusion of CL vice skills pre-CURB.


Too bad we'll lose more players in the process.


Fivo Asia





- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

Cafa
Mon Aug 15, 2005 12:12 pm
#129






bluejanus wrote:
Btw when someone else has access to around a dozen or so accounts' lots, exactly how do you compete against that?




For the record, I initially had two accounts. More than some, but I worked very hard to be a part of the economy. I became a high volume crafter with just two accounts, initially. It was decisions (from the devs) that destroyed the crafting economy that brought on more lot swap, IMO, not vice versa. I didn't acquire the bulk of my accounts until my kids started leaving the house and heading to college and abroad. Since I can afford them, and that entertainment venue fits my lifestyle, I explore all parts of SWG professions, now, and try to run a large guild for people to support each other.


I really am of the opinon that the competition you're referring to would not be there if people had tools to effect contracts within the game. If a contract system was developed you could create solid business models that would overcome any lot swapper, any day. Again, just my opinion.


Fivo Asia



- Strength In Numbers - Loyal Subjects of the Empire
Asia Brothers Industries - Asia Hall SiN CiTY, Dantooine (Offers Vendor at -4703 -1404)
A player bodyguard can't protect you either, something agroes you, you are dead. The
only difference between a pet and the person, is you pay the person to stand there
and watch you die. -- Straker Atrella

Elyssa
Mon Aug 22, 2005 9:04 pm
#130



Ok, more tests on the /structurestatus and /paymaintenance commands on TC and pub 23.

For the following tests I was just outside a player city on Naboo.
The house was a small Naboo (square).
The factory was chem.
The harvester was gas.
I was the owner of all 3 structures.
I was as close as physically possible to the factory and harvester for their tests.
Mounted or dismounted did not make a difference.
The harvester and factory occupied adjacent terrain areas.


House Test (Indoor) /structurestatus
Target / Result
No target = House
Myself = House
Indoor object = House
Vendor in house = House
My vehicle outside = House
Random outdoor object = House
other player's factory = Nothing
My nearby harvester = Harvester Status
My Nearby factory = Factory Status


House Test (Outdoor) /structurestatus
Target / Result
All tests either gave no effect or a system message saying I had to be near an installation


House Test (Indoor) /pay 1
Target / Result
No target = Pay 1cr to House
Myself = Pay 1cr to House
Indoor object = Pay 1cr to House
Vendor in house = Pay 1cr to House
My vehicle outside = Pay 1cr to House
Random outdoor object = Pay 1cr to House
other player's factory = System Msg Error
My nearby harvester = Pay 1cr to nearby harvester
My Nearby factory = Pay 1cr to nearby factory


House Test (Outdoor) /pay 1
Target / Result
All tests either gave no effect or a system message saying I had to be near an installation


It is interesting to note that while on the front porch of the house, I could not /pay or /struc the factory or harvester (60-75m away) but when I took 2 steps to walk into the house, both commands worked as if I were standing beside them.


Factory Test /structurestatus
Target / Result
No target = Factory
Factory = Factory
Myself = Factory
My vehicle = Factory
Random object = Factory
Other player's factory = System Msg Error
My nearby harvester = Harvester


Factory Test /pay 1
Target / Result
No target = Pay 1cr to Factory

Factory = Pay 1cr to Factory
Myself = Pay 1cr to Factory
My vehicle = Pay 1cr to Factory
Random object = Pay 1cr to Factory
Other player's factory = System Msg Error
My nearby harvester = Pay 1cr to Harvester


Harvester Test /structurestatus
Target / Result
No target = Harvester
Harvester = Harvester
Myself = Harvester
My vehicle = Harvester
Random object = Harvester
Other player's factory = System Msg Error
My nearby factory = Factory


Harvester Test /pay 1
Target / Result
No target = Pay 1cr to Harvester
Harvester = Pay 1cr to Harvester
Myself = Pay 1cr to Harvester
My vehicle = Pay 1cr to Harvester
Random object = Pay 1cr to Harvester
Other player's factory = System Msg Error
My nearby factory = Pay 1cr to Factory

Message Edited by Elyssa on 08-22-2005 11:52 PM



------
Elyssa Alexander (Elder Merchant Correspondent)
12pt. Master Structures Trader / Elder Jedi / Mayor, City of Metropolis
Shop Crazy Durni, Inc., now open in Metropolis, Corellia (885 -6605 Gorath)

"Why the big secret? People are smart, they can handle it."
"A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky, dangerous animals and you know it."

Elyssa was 1000% correct
-Pawlin

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