Weaponsmith Archive

First off let me say that this post is a work in progress, I'll be copying it over to my main website as I update but for discussion please let me know if anything is wrong or if I have left anything out. The above link will have the most up to date crafting information and will be useful if you are not viewing this guide either on the official SOE forums or the X-Force Weapons homepage. For comments please use the SOE Forum thread.

Before you craft _anything_ there are a few things you need to know before crafting in the CU. This guide assumes that you already know how to be a Weaponsmith before the CU. If you need more information on the basics (which still are fundamentally the same) Logix's guide is still very valuable. A an updated post on SWGCraft.com has some more information for new Weaponsmiths. If you plan on "grinding" to Weaponsmith go HERE but don't expect to be great just because you have a master box, there is tons of information here on the forums and eslewhere that you need to read.

Resource calculations were changed for the CU to take into account resource theoretical caps, nothing was said at first until many people wondered why some resources they were using came out much worse than before, and some resources came out much better. SOE changed the way statistic calculations occured. Stats now were compared to the relative min & max ranges (some had a range of only about 100). A detailed post is listed on SWGCraft: Crafting Post-CURB. From 4-27-05 to 5-9-05 this system was in effect. Some weaponsmiths found themselves unable to make certain components to experiment over 20% in some cases. These components were normally including low capped resources like Rhodium Steel and Polonium iron and such. Read over the SWGCraft thread for more info.
In an even more controversial move SOE changed the system yet _AGAIN_. SOE took threw out min values and max values are the only ones calculated in relation to caps. The official explanation is HERE. Keep in mind their "old" system is the system put in place 4-27-05. Overall this means higher quality weapons using the same resources as before in the "old" system. Essentially anything made Post-CU is now inferior to stuff that is made today under thew "new" new system. A new discussion on SWGCraft coverts stuff 5-10-05 and onCrafting Post-CURB(5.10.05 on).

Ok, now with that out of the way lets talk about "prenerf" or "pre-CU" components and schems. SOE has disabled many schems including most weapon schematics as well as Advanced Stock and Advanced Projectile Feed Mechanism schems. Items crated in factories do work however. Pre-CU ABPH, Barrels, Scopes, Stocks just about anything already made (which some can still be made if you run the schematic) are _all_ better than their post-CU counterparts made with the _same_ resources. My official plan is to use as few of these as possible and save for custom orders. Some smiths ran factory runs of components before the CU and they will have an advantage. It appears that pre-CU stocks with DAMAGE still in the stats has been fixed by a conversion patch. All pre-CU Stocks except Formfitted stocks have had damage removed. Disuccsion on this is HERE. The prenerf market is now larger than ever before, especially larger than the months following the infamous "Crafting Day" or "Patch Day" when they changed our system for just one day. Publish 7

There is a TON of new stuff we cannot even craft, so if asked point to this thread if you can.

Weapons NOT Craftable yet (waiting on SOE)

You should also review the thread Compilation of Weaponsimth Issues Post-CU.

***New*** Entertainer Buffs
Most Recently Publish 23 has changed the Entertainer/Dancer/Musician professions and added crafting buffs. In short we can get a buff which enhances our Experience by 15%, Experimentation rolls by 10%, Assembly Rolls by 10%, and the most controversial of all RESOURCE Quality by 2%. Initially SOE had slated a 10% resource increase but due to huge outcry (well deserved) it was reduced to 2%. In my personal opinion this should have been left out, but 2% won't affect our play style as badly. What does this mean? It means if you have a 982/1000oq Cap resource, it will be calculated as 982*1.02=1001.64. Keep in mind that it will be used as 1001.64 when calculating the % line but will not allow you to exceed 100% experimentation. From what I have read this buff cannot be performed while AFK, so you need to read up on how it is performed so you can be sure you get it correctly. In short you will need to find a Musician for the WS buff that is at the keyboard, so tip nicely they are basically giving you a Research Center and Manufacturing center in your own home. The Entertainer guide in progress is Red-Dwarf Idiot's Guide to Inspiration Buffing.

--Slicing Info Removed-- Slicing has changed drastically and cannot be part of this guide, if you slice your weapons, please read the Smuggler FAQ

10 point vs 12 point Smiths:
Due to the way experimentation has changed, 12 point smiths have an even greater advantage than before. Pre-CU the only difference if you had the same resources was a little range or HAM or Condition. Now Speed and Damage lines have been split, and it is impossible to max out damage and speed with just a single line of experimention. HAM (Health/Action/MindCost) has been replaced with SAC (Special Action Cost) and is now more important than ever before. You cannot offset all SAC cost with just buffs alone, so this is yet another line you need to consider when experimenting. Many weapons now have a _Second_ damange line called Elemental. Tests are still being done to see how effective this line is but right now experimenting on speed helps DPS more. One thing that will be the same if the resources are identical is Condition. The Durability line has been removed and you can no longer drop extra points to raise condition. Most weapons will have around 900 condition or lower.

DPS:
DPS (Damage Per Second) is now displayed on every weapon. Also a "modified" dps is shown to the person holding it to say how much thier DPS changes with their skills. DPS = [(min+max)/2 + elementalDamage]/speed. DPS might be the first thing a customer will see, but if their SAC is too high, they cannot fire their specials and I will quote myself from another thread and say 0Action = 0DPS. A heated debate is going on in this thread about DPS, Well after a lot of testing. Base DPS means nothing. Read inside.

Enhancers: ****--IMPORTANT---***
First things first, Krayt tissues now drop in stacks similar to crates. To craft with these you have to "split" them apart. You cannot put an unsplit enhancer into a slot, you will get an error. Also if you try to put the last tissue which will have a little #1 on it you will get an error (This may have been fixed in a recent patch, but if you get the error try this next step first). Simply drop the tissue on the floor and pick it back up and you should be able to use it. For FACTORY runs, SPLIT ALL TISSUES. If you put a stack of 5 100 dmg tissues into your factory, it will make just 1 and stop. CSRs will not help you. I believe lots of other loot is dropping in stacks, so keep this in mind, same rules should apply.

BH Mission Loot:
SOE has introduced new high end loot to BH missions, Enhanced Power Cells (for Blaster Power Handlers) and Reinforced casings (for Projectile Feeds) as well as scopes and stocks. There WAS a known issue with crafting with Scopes/Stocks. The scopes and stocks convert the damage type of a weapon, if energy, it goes to blast usually doing just 1 damage when used. If the weapon is kinetic, it converts to energy but does appear to work properly but has energy damage type. These bugged damage types now are fixed after doing a full logout or dropping the item in your house for a while. The EPC's and RC's have Speed, Damage AND SAC mods. These new enhancers make it possible to both damage cap and SAC cap a weapon if they are good enough. There are some Pre-Pub23 Scopes that have very high accuracy mods, some 60+ as well as speed bonuses. Newer scopes drop around 20 accuracy at most now. Stocks have min/max damage as well as speed mods.

*Special Note*: on SUBComponents when applied toward the final build of weapon the decimal places are off by a whole place. A component with -2.0 speed actually only affects a weapon by -.2 speed. So, the difference between a -2.1 speed subcomponent and a -2.0 speed subcomponent is really -.01 instead of -.1.

Schematics:
Schematics have changed and new ones have been added. There are several "novice" models and other schematics moved around all over the cert chart. I have put together a listing of schematics for the new stuff we CAN craft and have listed the old/changed ones also. The most important note is T21 now takes only 5 Identical ABPH instead of 10 now.

Combat Level (CL):
All new weapons now have a CL requirement. Some weapons require a certain skill box, DX2 & Republic blaster for example now are CL54 Master Pistoleer. A great list that breaks the new weapons down by CL & Profession here, Weapon Certifications. An interesting twist is that if you are a Master Pistoleer, CL54 (with no other masteries) you can use a rifle that is at least level 54 or below that doesn't require a specific box. A nice Advanced Laser Rifle can be used to fire Stopping Shot @ 65meters.

Statistic caps:
Another controversial change is that certain weapons have a hard "cap" on statistics. Right now we can easily "cap" wound and several novice weapons. For more info on these a thread has been started. Reference for Weapon Stat Caps. If you reach a cap, you will get an on screen message. Usually wound is capped very easily and you will see a message that your crafting tool is adjusting the stat to fall within acceptable ranges. If you reach a cap on say maximum damage, do not experiment on damage anymore, move to another line and continue. Right now it takes very high end loot to reach a damage cap.

Experimentation:
Subcomponents:
Just about every subcomponent now has an Attack Cost value. This value is in addition to any pre-CU lines that were in place. Other items such as scopes and stocks have changed completely. Min, Max and Ideal Ranges have all be replaced with a single stat called Weight & Accuracy. Scopes used to have just Damage, Ideal Range & Efficiency(HAM) Lines. They now have Accuracy, Damage(affects only wound), & Speed lines. Stocks previously added Min/Max Damage, wound, Ideal Range, and speed. They now have only Damage(affects only wound) Efficiency & Speed lines. A special note here is that if you have pre-CU stocks and use them while still in crates, the damage mod still works. One more example is the infamous Advnaced Blaster Power Handler. We all wondered what SOE was thinking by having a "Durablility" line in addition to the old Damage line. Now an ABPH has 3 lines, Damage, Efficiency, & Speed. Previously a 10 point smith could max out an ABPH in just 9 points (usually around 83% or better) and just not experiment any more, because we all know what happens if you got a moderate on "durability" which did nothing anyway. Your ABPH stats lowered, and you had no way to recover. Essentially an ABPH made by the 10 pt was just as good as the 12 point smith due to this cap. Now with 3 separate lines to experiment the gap widens even more. You cannot just experiment on dmg and speed and ignore SAC, if you do this on all of your components your customer will be out of action after firing only a few times. In many ways SOE has created greater demand for custom made weapons, as there are many different paths you can take in making the same weapon. Next I will show some differences in parts as crafted by a 12pt smith (myself). Keep in mind stats will be noticable lower especially on things like SAC if made with only 10.
***Another Special note is that on SUBComponents when applied toward the final build of weapon the decimal places are off by a whole place. A component with -2.0 speed actually only affects a weapon by -.2 speed. So, the difference between a -2.1 speed subcomponent and a -2.0 speed subcomponent is really -.01 instead of -.1.***

Final Builds:
Another twist which you will notice very early on is that there is no longer a "Condition" line on final builds. Most weapons made with quality components will have 900 condition or less. Weapons such as Geo Sonics & DXR-6 Disruptors can have higher condition if Green Geonocian Power Cubes are used. Just like before UI is the stat applied toward the build so a "perfect" DXR-6 for me came out 1138 condition, and would have been 1150 if I had 100% met the new resource cap requirements on all resources. Unfortunately these weapons are low cert and not many will use them. From personal tests I have found that your min/max damage average determines how much you hit for with each special. From other tests I have seen experimenting 100% on speed on the final build will give you an advantage on BASE DPS, but if your customer has high speed mods, or even a single mastery I feel experimenting 100% on damage and putting extra points on SAC or Speed is the best route. And another curveball thrown in is the addition of Elemental Damage. This line is separate from the regular Damage line and has a single value, not min/max range. If have just 10 points, your choices will be much harder and will have to chose between possibly a bit lower damage to keep the SAC down or possibly go for elemental damage if that is an option.

Weapon Crafting Tests:
Keep in mind that these were done in the CU period before the "new" new system was put in place. Stats should be slightly better but not by much since I used the best available resources on my server.
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I crafted 4 Reinforcement core schematics, experimenting differently on each one..

Dmg=Damage, AC=Attack Cost, Spd=Speed

10xAC 2xSpeed came out as:
15-41 -.83 4wound -8AttackCost

10xDmg 2xSpeed came out as: 24-49 -.83 14wound 4AttackCost
10xSpeed 2xAttackCost came out as : 15-41 -1.89 4wound 1AttackCost

-Now here is where FS Experimentation helps out-
8xAmazingSpeed 4xDmg came out as:
19-45 -1.84 8wound 4AttackCost

Lets say you have an old schematic using the same resources... "prenerf"
23-51 -1.67 15wound -6Attack cost (the attack cost and dmg are far greater than possible with a new schematic)

PowerHammer, crafted using the 8xAmazingSpeed 4xDmg core:
2.67 428-933 108AttackCost

PowerHammer, crafted using the "prenerf" core
2.68 494-1004 109AttackCost
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It appears that as far as action cost and damage are concerned, to get the best result you need to have old schems. This will gate new Weaponsmiths and those that don't have 12 points as well will have an even harder time to compete as before.
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I did a few more tests using Krayt tissue for ABPH and then crafting High Capacity Scatters
The tissue I used was approx 31 dmg -.50 speed (I have a screenshot back at home as I'm posting from work here going off of my notes)
I have 12 points of experimentation and now have +20 FS experimentation bonus, so I got a few Amazings which will throw the results off by a tad. I also did use some pre-CU Barrels/Scopes and will post exact stats on those when I get home

1) 9xDmg 3xAmazingAction = 23-80Dmg -1.05Spd 0AC ABPH = 1.98 396-832Dmg 17Range 31.05Wound 101AC (Approx 310dps)
2) 8xAC 4xDmg = 18-76Dmg -1.05Spd -6AC ABPH = 1.98 392-829Dmg 17Range 31.05Wound 94AC (Approx 308dps)
3) 6Amaxing2GreatSpeed 4xAction = 15-72 -2.29 spd 0AC ABPH = 1.86 388-825 17Range 31.05Wound 100AC (Approx 326dps)

After seeing these results I talked with my BH friend and decided to go with route #3 for using his 163dmg -.30 tissues..
I got a few amazings here and there and here are the 3 results from those tissues
1) 15-209Dmg -2.00Spd 0AC = 1.89 388-948 17Range 31.05Wound 100AC (Approx 354Dps)
2) 15-209Dmg -1.91Spd -1AC = 1.89 388-948 17Range 31.05Wound 99AC (Approx 352Dps)
3) 15-209Dmg -1.98Spd 0AC = 1.89 387-948 17Range 31.05Wound 97AC (Approx 353Dps) (Got amazings on Dmg up to 96%, 97% was cap so put 1 more point on AC to get it down to 97)
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Notice how DPS is different on #1 and #2 even though they have same speed and same dmg? I was master pistoleer and my mod speed on #1 was 1.3 while on #2 it was 1.31. So, even though we now have another decimal place after the CU, the calculations are taking into account at least one more decimal place we cannot see. --update-- You can now see about 8 decimal places on many subcomponents now. These hidden decimals are now shown to us .
--edited--
Another Special note is that on SUBComponents when applied toward the final build of weapon the decimal places are off by a whole place. A component with -2.0 speed actually only affects a weapon by -.2 speed. So, the difference between a -2.1 speed subcomponent and a -2.0 speed subcomponent is really -.01 instead of -.1.
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It is pretty obvious that the higher damage your weapon, the lower % of a slice you get. Given this is only out of 3 tries and one model gun but I feel there will be a distinct pattern. Also I feel that soon WS will be trying to find the lowest quality material that they can use before slicing %'s drop off to the point where in the end the weapon is less DPS overall.
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Staying Alive:
If you are a "pure" crafter that has no combat, it's very hard to stay alive when doing harv runs, surveying, etc. SOE says to buy a PSG or have friends escort you. I can't really relate becaue I am WS/Pistoleer now and can defend myself pretty well. Your best bet is to find a lvl 80 and group with them if you have to go out alone searching for things. If you are attacked you'll be attacked as lvl 80 not 1 or 10 or whatever you were. A nice plus is that we can survey on bikes now.

I know there is much more needed and I'll update when I have time and incorporate info that people post at the link below.
SWG Official Forums - Weaponsmith - Read 1st - Post CU WS Crafting Guide <-This is the original thread link for those have posted this information elsewhere.

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 05-24-2005 07:15 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 05-24-2005 07:19 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 05-24-2005 07:27 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 05-25-2005 04:05 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 05-25-2005 04:09 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 08-19-2005 05:56 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 08-31-2005 06:13 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 08-31-2005 06:17 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 08-31-2005 06:18 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 09-14-2005 08:49 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 09-15-2005 10:54 PM

Message Edited by CorenLanra on 09-15-2005 11:03 PM

saved2

Good start.

A couple of things:
1) DPS:
You should probably use the more complete base DPS formula: [(min+max)/2 + elemD]/speed

2) Enhancers:
"Also if you try to put the last tissue which will have a little #1 on it you will get an error." I believe they fixed this based on a test I did the other night.

Also, I have a couple questions. What is your target audience? I get the impression that this is not for novice smiths. What is your goal for this guide? Your introduction doesn't tell me if this will be an overview of the crafting changes or if it will be a how-to document. I'll add more questions as I think of them.

Message Edited by Vade_WS on 05-12-2005 11:25 AM

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Vade_WS wrote:
Good start.

A couple of things:
1) DPS:
You should probably use the more complete base DPS formula: [(min+max)/2 + elemD]/speed

2) Enhancers:
"Also if you try to put the last tissue which will have a little #1 on it you will get an error." I believe they fixed this based on a test I did the other night.

Also, I have a couple questions. What is your target audience? I get the impression that this is not for novice smiths. What is your goal for this guide? Your introduction doesn't tell me if this will be an overview of the crafting changes or if it will be a how-to document. I'll add more questions as I think of them.

Message Edited by Vade_WS on 05-12-2005 11:25 AM

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Thanks for the info, updated DPS and clarified in my opening what my goal is. I have no desire to write a "noob" guide right now. Things are coplicated enough right now for experienced smiths. I'm focusing on the changes to help existing smiths transition. I do plan on adding a partial how-to later on with sreenshots of the new arrangement of experimentation boxes, etc but that will be on my website only.

Sounds great. It's really helpful having this information collected like this.

Have you considered the Corr position?

Slicing

Respec'd to smuggler last night. (dropped a lot of merchant)

IMHO, the slice seems to be determined by how much room is left in the "Max" stat range for the weapon being sliced.

1. I sliced 3 Lances last night. I had maxed their damages experimenting and a few points went into speed.


2. Slice one was 7% Damage.


3. Slice two was 8% Damage.


4. Slice three was 28% Speed.

I went back and did a Lance with max Speed experimenting and sliced it. Luckily, it was a speed slice and sliced 6%. I would derrive that your slice is a direct result as to how much room you have left to reach the weapons max value.

• The weapons max value may equal the "Dev's" predetermined cap of said weapon.

I did severalweapons last night as well (that I didn't make). It seemed to hold true that the closer the weapon was to it's Max value the less the slice would be.

Message Edited by CarissaLeigh on 05-12-2005 04:20 PM

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CorenLanra wrote:
Updated 10pt vs 12pt to reflect removal of the Durability/Condition experimentation line...

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"The Durability line has been removed and you can no longer drop extra points to raise condition. Most weapons will have around 900 condition or lower."

From what I've found, if you are using good to excellent quality resources, the condition of the final weapon should be between 850 and 900. I've found that it is pretty difficult to get over 900 condition unless you are using resources that are almost perfect.

Obviously the condition cap is 1000. I haven't worked out a formula for condition, but it is probably a weighted average of the resource qualities used to assemble the final weapon. I need to go over my numbers to be sure.

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Vade_WS wrote:

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CorenLanra wrote:
Updated 10pt vs 12pt to reflect removal of the Durability/Condition experimentation line...

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"The Durability line has been removed and you can no longer drop extra points to raise condition. Most weapons will have around 900 condition or lower."

From what I've found, if you are using good to excellent quality resources, the condition of the final weapon should be between 850 and 900. I've found that it is pretty difficult to get over 900 condition unless you are using resources that are almost perfect.

Obviously the condition cap is 1000. I haven't worked out a formula for condition, but it is probably a weighted average of the resource qualities used to assemble the final weapon. I need to go over my numbers to be sure.

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Guess a server with 1000 SR steel needs to try a metal staff and find out the condition on it, that should give us the top end. I'm feeling that it will not be 1000 condition though but 900. I have some 999 SR steel I need to try when I get home.

Hmmm. You may be right. From my notes, I got 887 on my metal staff using steel with an SR of 980.

OK. Just made a couple with 999 SR steel. Condition was 889 after a great success on assembly. Maybe an amazing will get closer to 900.

Just a wild guess here, what was its decay rating?

For the 980 steel, the DR was 962.
For the 999 steel, the DR was 973.