Weaponsmith Archive

Thread: Is this a good idea or a bad idea

Dodece
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:17 am
#1

I have been thinking long and hard about the new temp schems. Earlier I posted an idea on a couple of these threads, and wanted to see what everyone thought. Instead of looted schems for new weapons. Why not looted certs for new weapons. Make it a immediate learn schematic. A fighter kills something, and loots it he immediately learns a new cert for a new weapon. He cant sell it off. If he dosent have the fighting class that the skill belongs to. He still learns it he just cannot use it unless he learns that skill class. This way the fighter would still be able to earn coolness, by going to dungeons, and the weaponsmiths do not have to go through all the schematic loot dilemas.


Truth is this is a ebay economy. If you want ten million credits it will cost you fourty bucks on ebay. This kind of thing would thwart the ebayer, because nothing to sell. You could have certs for all the professions. With every month a couple new certs for every class come out. A master scout might get a new type of trap. A doctor might get something like a temp vaccine that would make it harder for a player to get diseased. Then the new weapons schematics might be downloaded straight into the weaponsmiths. Even though only people who loot the cert for it can ever use it. This maintaines the advantage of dungeoning, but also it allows the crafters to make new content driven items.


Voila everyone is happy people have to loot the cert to use a crafted item. The crafter has the ability to tinker with makeing the weapon better. What do you guys think is this a better idea of how to bring new weapons into the game?
d0qtrX
Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:12 am
#2

Only if you make the cert non-tradeable.


Otherwise we're still auctioning off this loot for 20 mil credits.


Tarnak_Archvold
Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:45 am
#3

I would make two alteration to this idea.
First off, the certifications should be quest based and not random loot. Sure you might be send to lok to kill and rear mob, that do not spawn as part of the quest, but one you have to bump in to randomly (and why not give a badge for it at the same time "have killer uber mob 1").
This would make profession theme parks, to make the certifications rear the quests just had to be though.

This should also go for weapon smiths. We should also gain the schematics for the new weapon in the same faction, but once learned it would be presently (like RIS armour).
These quests should not be about killing stuff, it could be something as simple as using a computer in a dungeon to download the schematic or something more complex like randomly running in to a hermit on tatoine that can teach you how to make a kinetic tusken rifle.

Secondly the quests should first be able to be undertaken when the proper skills have been obtained. It should even be impossible for thoughts not qualified to se that that this was the right place to complete a quest. So if anyone other then a WS ran in to the hermit, they would just get the random thinhs NPC's say.




"Once upon a time Rangers roamed the galaxies... Before the dark times, before the NGE. "
Once a Ranger, Always a Ranger.
Dodece
Wed Apr 21, 2004 3:47 pm
#4

I think I was clear in the original post. That looting a cert. Would auto download to your character. Even if say it were a pistoleer cert and you were a master doctor. Personally I would wonder if it would be fair if everytime a person that played for six months changed a profession he would have to go through all the quests again.


Also I wonder if static quests are all that great to begin with. A good version of chance would be to stumble upon a npc in distress, and once you complete the quest that npc goes elsewhere to be rediscovered. The advantages are obvious you curtail the ebay market. The player gets to improve their character, and even the uber weapons get curtailed. A weaponsmith can make a thousand of a gun, but how valuable is it if only a hundred person on a server could use it.


Personally I am thinking aint this game getting a little beyond camping. If this is the only way to get ahead how fun can it be. It would be nice for actual long time work to add up to more then a bloated bank account. Even the certs that would add non combat content might be a blast. Add new angles to professions that have gotten stale.


Heck think about the real bonus in something like this. We have what twenty or so dungeonesque locations in the galaxy. Some that nobody goes to. What if you had to go through blueleaf temple to get at a cert for a better gaffi stick, or go through fort tusken to learn a new meditation technique. Instead of thirty people liveing in the geonosian cave. Gasp groups going any number of these dungeons.


Chavabegga
Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:59 pm
#5

Its a good idea. Needs to be polished some but its a good place to start. It fixes the main problem of eliminating looted schematics and components. It allows people to kill things and get something new in the process. Adds a new flavor to a profession you may be getting bored with. In fact, if you got a cert for a profession you did not have it may encourage people to try something new, which as holocrons proved the Devs seem to like.



Trader Revamp- Loot and Crafted Symbiosis

UDF Inc. Chu'unthor, Talus
-1258, -566
Dodece
Wed Apr 21, 2004 7:55 pm
#6

Well instead of complaining and moaning to no end. I thought it was a good idea to show people that there could be alternatives to all these looted schematics. Comeon people get the thinking wheels turning. Does anyone else have some ideas on this. Maybe we could stir the devs creative juices in an even better direction.
Chavabegga
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:27 pm
#7

I have seen many people posting comments about how they dislike the looted schematic idea but you are right, not much seems to be being done about it. We need to keep this issue alive. Hash together a well thought out plan and then get opinions on it. Happens all the time over on the DE and smuggler boards that I follow. Weaponsmiths do not seem to be as active though.


Maybe I will post an "official" Ideas to Replace Looted Schematics thread. Might be a way of consolidating things.





Trader Revamp- Loot and Crafted Symbiosis

UDF Inc. Chu'unthor, Talus
-1258, -566
Tarnak_Archvold
Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:04 am
#8


I think I was clear in the original post. That looting a cert. Would auto download to your character. Even if say it were a pistoleer cert and you were a master doctor. Personally I would wonder if it would be fair if everytime a person that played for six months changed a profession he would have to go through all the quests again.

If you say was a commando and dropped it for pikeman you would not have to redo the commando quests, but you might have to do the new pikeman quests. For hologrinders this would not matter much, but for thoughts that intend to stay in a profession it would provide future goals.

There are also a lot of problem with loot certifications.
What if a group kills a mob and loots it then who get the certification, the looter?
What if the looter already have it, is it then waited or given to someone else?
What about loot sharing, how does certification count and what if the person that end up getting it do not wand it?
And if it was given to the entire group, would the dead and out of range people count and would it not make the certifications to common?

No matter what the solution to these questions there would be a lot of complaints. Loot certification might sound good to a solo camper but to anyone who go in groups it will be a nightmare.


Also I wonder if static quests are all that great to begin with. A good version of chance would be to stumble upon a npc in distress, and once you complete the quest that npc goes elsewhere to be rediscovered. The advantages are obvious you curtail the ebay market. The player gets to improve their character, and even the uber weapons get curtailed. A weaponsmith can make a thousand of a gun, but how valuable is it if only a hundred person on a server could use it.

If the certifications are quest based, then all thoughts problems wound come up. Whoever has the quest active when the special mob is killed can get the cert. Toughs who do not have the quest active do not get the certification.
And the mobs could be like the giant peko peko albatross, something that do not spawn in missions, but have to found in the wild (to prevent camping of the spawn points).

The eBay market would still be cut off, the ones that wand that special weapon to use that know one else have, could still get it, they just have to complete an insanely difficult quest. On that they could not complete while camping the spawn in a dungeon, one that they could not even complete by taking missions.
And it did not have to be a 1 step mission, if it had 4 or 5 steps and very different kind then it could perhaps take them as much as a month to get that certification.
There is not going to be anything special is a heavy swordsman/doctor can go to a dungeon can camp the spawn until he get a certification, and then move on the next dungeon to get the next certification.
And once he have all the loot certifications he can train the professions he wand.
The persons that wand something special wand it to be very difficult to obtain, the fewer that have it the more valuable it is to them. A series of difficult quest could be the perfect solution for them.
Now if only say 100 people on a server had the certification for say the berserker rifle, then it would not be in stock of many weaponsmith. However, it might be a weapon that thoughts 100 would ask for when they had enhancers, and the few local smiths that had more then one of these 100 and customers might make them as well.



Personally I am thinking aint this game getting a little beyond camping. If this is the only way to get ahead how fun can it be. It would be nice for actual long time work to add up to more then a bloated bank account. Even the certs that would add non combat content might be a blast. Add new angles to professions that have gotten stale.

On this we agree, but a loot certification would only generate more camping.


Heck think about the real bonus in something like this. We have what twenty or so dungeonesque locations in the galaxy. Some that nobody goes to. What if you had to go through blueleaf temple to get at a cert for a better gaffi stick, or go through fort tusken to learn a new meditation technique. Instead of thirty people liveing in the geonosian cave. Gasp groups going any number of these dungeons.

Again I agree, but if they just camped fort tusken until they learned the technique, and the wend on to the temple to get the graffi stick cert, and so on, it would not be much different from what it is now.




"Once upon a time Rangers roamed the galaxies... Before the dark times, before the NGE. "
Once a Ranger, Always a Ranger.
EdOWar
Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:41 am
#9


I like the idea of special earned certifications, but I think calling them 'loot' certs is a little bit confusing. I think this works best if it is instead a reward for a quest/mission rather than a dropped 'loot'. However, I don't thinkthis this system should be a complete replacement for looted schematics.


One other thing that I hasn't been mentioned in this thread yet: what do you think the combat professions will think of this idea. It can't be forced onto the combat professions just because we WS like it. I think a lot of combat players like getting physical loot that they can either use for themselves or sell to earn money. If this system is forced on them, they may very well come to resent WS for taking away their loot and a means of making money. "Greedy weaponsmiths found another way to gouge us for more money" is what many of them may think about it.


With the current system we may charge a lot for Scythe blades, Sonic blasters and Disruptor rifles, but the combat profs can earn a lot of money selling the schematics and components for these items to us as well.


Just something else to consider.


Slim Vargo, Corbantis


Message Edited by EdOWar on 04-22-2004 09:42 AM

Tarnak_Archvold
Thu Apr 22, 2004 10:29 am
#10

The loot schematic was forced upon us... debating with the aim to find a replacement system is only proper. As for the combat professions, some will like having to earn certifications, and some will hate it. The eBay'ers will hate this. The spawn campers will hate this, and most of all the dupers will hate this. These 3 groups will be very vocal about any system take even a little bit from them, even if it is to give a hole lot to a lot of other people (even if these are not WS).
Weaponsmith's will always be accused of being greedy. That is because thoughts accusing us do not se what we do as being of any value.
"After we are there to supply them with the weapon, they cannot do without, and we do not take any risk so why should we profit on it."
They will always think like that, no mater what. Implementing a system that weaponsmiths find fun is better for all others, as the more fun it is to be a weaponsmith the more weaponsmiths will be in the profession to have fun.
If a profession is not fun, then you will get lousy customer service from the few that take it on. Prices will sky rocked and the ones to start the profession will do so only to make tons of credit.




"Once upon a time Rangers roamed the galaxies... Before the dark times, before the NGE. "
Once a Ranger, Always a Ranger.
Logix
Sun Apr 25, 2004 4:01 pm
#11

This is a great idea and it shouldn't be off the front page at only 7 posts.
LLJK_Griz
Sun Apr 25, 2004 5:16 pm
#12

More quests like RIS armor would be cool, but no-drop loots would be like the EQ crap, but worse. Crafters would either be forced to drop crafting skills for combat skills, get the thing,and regrind crafting skills, or go with a group and camp for hours while contributing nothing to the group.


Also remember that nearly everyone uses a /loot all macro instead of trying to open the corpses,so the end result is that nocrafter would ever get one of these things unless they learn combat skills and solo it.



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Dodece
Sun Apr 25, 2004 10:03 pm
#13

Great question what about the loot system. It is pretty messed up as is. Though if the leader system was overhauled, and only the leader could loot the cert. Then there could be a option to hand it off to one of the players. That alone is a brilliant concept group leader haveing a actual point of value. Even better they could give a squad leader the bonus of splitting a cert maybe three times to different players.


I am sure that squad leaders would sound a resounding hell yeah on that. The system does nullify camping for a large part. Go right ahead and camp the hell out of a dungeon. You cant loot the cert again. That being said it will be a hardship for campers, but as it stands are these people really contributeing to the community as is.


Another bonus would be that looted certs. Especially serendipitous ones will actually diversify the player classes even more. Say for example you get a cert to build a new trap. The trap is uncommon and only a few people can use it. This trap is supriseingly effective on say krayt dragons. It has a major intimidation value. Now your character has become more valuable for krayt hunting. This means that people come to you to ask you to krayt hunt with them. Imagine that a reason to go out and find other players in the community.


This is not only a good thing for the weaponsmiths, but is good for stale combat classes. In one stroke the content of the game will multiply several fold. This can also apply to all the crafters aswell. All you would need do is say go buy a schematic from a npc. You can tinker at it till you get it right, but only people certed for it could use it. What if a tailor got a cert for a new toolkit. Instead of it being a generic assembly. The tailor might actually need to get better ingredients.


All in all a concept like this would rejuvinate the entire game system from the ground up. I would really hope that a dev stumbles on this, and takes it to his pals. We got jedis now. Lets see if we can do something to rejuvinate the other fighting classes. With new weapons certs ability certs and so on.
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