Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Weaponsmith Bug and Repair Discussion: Crafting CL
Should cfrating profession CL advance the same as a combatant? Why, or why not?
How you implement a system for increasing the crafter's CL?
What issues with balance do think this would create?
I'm going to go ahead and throw one comment in here:
I don't like the idea and here is why, have you ever heard saying "give them an inch and they'll take a mile"? That is what I see as the problem here. Say we were increased to move at 1/2 of the current system (a double crafting master would max at CL40). Is everyone going to be satisfied with ranged shot and melee hit as the only specials they can use? After all, anything matching your level is most likely going to kill you now anyway because we have no armour certification. Is everyone going to be ok without armour? Are you going to be fine with running from things that are close to your level? Natural competitive spirit says no, we will not. We will next demand an armour certification system, most likely recon or some new style for non-coms. Then we will want lesser specials added so we can "effectively defend ourselves". Do you see where this is going? The fact is that once you give into someone's demands they start demanding something else. This is life, plain and simple. You can talk about how you are different till you are blue in the face and won't change the fact that evetually you will go against it and begin demanding something else. This is biggest problem I see with changing anything. It will simply be the first step in turning all professions into some sort of combat hybrid... that is bad for the game.
Give crafters levels just like combatants. Single elite master is level 54, double elite master is level 80. That'll give them the option of using a decent weapon, but they'll have no specials nor any bonuses to speed or anything else that combat professions have, but it'll avoid the one-hit incaps they experience under the current system. Give them recon armour certifications without giving them any mitigations on the penalties (accuracy, movement, rate of fire, etc). This will give them the protection they need, which is the main concern anyway - crafters aren't complaining about not being viable in a fight, they're complaining about not being able to survive an encounter with even the lowliest of creatures.
Crafters weren't asking for combat specials under the old system - what makes you think they will with the new one? With the changes outlined above, they'll be better at combat with the new system than they were under the old one, but they still won't stand a chance when compared to a combatant of equal level, just as it should be, and just like it was before the CU.
(Note: I refer to "them" as this is mainly an issue for pure crafters, and not crafter/combatants like myself)
Message Edited by Ferrek on 06-20-2005 01:14 PM
Mor-Dan wrote:
Now, this is not really a bug, but it is a concern most of you have raised. Let's hear your ideas on how to fix it:
Should cfrating profession CL advance the same as a combatant? Why, or why not?
I don't think crafters need to be CL 54 or 80. If we go that far, then combatants will want to have crafting skills (or worse, NPC vendors to replace us). All we need is about CL 15or so (say CL 5 at Master Artisan/Entertainer, and CL 10 or 15 with a master elite non-combatant profession), so that we aren't one-hit incapped by rabid bunnies or butterflies on starter planets. No health bonuses, no combat bonuses, no weapon or armor certs.
If you live on a more dangerous planet (Lok or Dant), then you should expect to have more trouble with the local wild life (so move your factories inside the city limits--it's what I did; Edit: I'm assumingby this point in the game thatmost crafters arecitizens of a player city). And if you're planning any trips to Dathomir or Endor, you should expect to have to either group with some CL80s, or bring some friends, or both.
This would be an adequate compromise, in my view.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Message Edited by EdOWar on 06-20-2005 12:00 PM
If Shug's facs won't go to the city, place a damn city next to them /cackle
How about a crafter only type of PSG? We get a crafter level stystem that adjusts the protection/defs of the PSG based on lvl with a similiar Crafter level 80 for double master. While the PSG is on you can't equip any type of weapon or armor and have either fullv 60%movement speed limitations like the current armor system or even increase it a bit.
This way as a pure crafter you get protections at a severe cost, and no exploiting see No Weaps/Armor with PSG equipped, and we can sill take care of our normal business. The severe movement limitations will keep ppl from trying to xploit with it so you're stuck with Bike/PSG or the hardway, no running around drawing fire for buddies in DWB, Vette, ect ect. Also put in a shield level/recharge systemlike the ones on ships for JTL,avoids any problems with being able totaking fire for an extended time.
All everyone wants is to be able to check on harvs or survey without getting 1 shot incapped by a Spice Fiends and other related lameness the Combat Level system brought into play. Give me some decent protection on my crafter and I'll happily take severe movement rate limitations to avoid being incapped by Durni and other savage creatures accross the land.
Message Edited by Thraxor on 06-20-2005 03:35 PM
JohnAdams wrote:
Nay, Nay. A thousand times nay. This game is about choices. If you are CL 1 and get incapped by Durnis, you have made that choice and that is your consequence. I am a Master Artisan/MWS with several boxes in Merchant and 0030 pistoleer. Puts me at CL21 and I don't worry about a lot on starter planets. I can't be a triple crafting master and that is a consequence of the choice I made. There are times when factories and harvesters are "camped", but I have not been killed yet, although there was one occasion where I didn't do some factory runs because there was no way I could get past the MOBs there. But that is all as intended. Things shouldn't be really easy all of the time.
On the other hand, if you give us a CL 54 or 80 for crafting mastery, why not give Master Rifleman the ability to craft rifles? Maybe they wouldn't be as good as us, but they would be able to make a "passable" rifle. I have already seen suggestions like this in other forums where combat characters want to be able to craft personal weapons. I am dead set against that. Why give them something like this to use against us?
Even more disturbing is the general trend I see here. This is more properly a core systems issue. I have seen other things like a relist button (Merchant issue) or crafting xp at the village (Force Sensitive issue) being brought up as Weaponsmith issues. There are enough things wrong with WS that we don't need to be worrying about outside issue. You can't go left by turning right. ANd you won't fix WS issues by concentrating on Non WS issues.
This wasn't anyones choice, it was forced on us by the CU. Everyones had their crafters for a long time and then the rules of the game were changed all of a sudden. Andmost are notclamoring for combat skills and combat levels, all we want is some simple protections trying to do the same jobs we were able to do before the CU. And no, not everyone has the luxury of taking combat skills because of pi$$ poor game design/mechanics and changes implented 2 years after the game has been out.
Message Edited by Jebredan_Xoel on 06-20-2005 11:06 PM