Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Looted Schematics...Why?
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Chavabegga
Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:19 pm
#1
Stupid double post.
Message Edited by Chavabegga on 04-19-2004 07:20 PM
Chavabegga
Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:20 pm
#2
For the life of me I can not understand the reason for any new weapons having to come in the form of looted schematics? As a weaponsmith with no combat skills there is no chance for me to acquire and make these new weapons unless I want to spend millions on the schematic AND the looted subcomponents. As weaponsmiths why does the only new content(ie new things to craft) come in the form of schematics we have to loot? On another point, why after making x number of weapons, do we forget how to make more?
What would make alot more sense, instead of making the weapons come as looted schematics, have them be learned as a quest for weaponsmiths. Something intricate, but noncombat related, or something simply like purchasing the schematic like the painting schematic from the Bestine museum.
For the loot from the new dungeons make them drop enhancements, like Krayt tissue etc. But instead of the enhancements just being added to power handlers etc let ALL guns, or at least all new guns, be able to take looted enhancements. For example, the Enhance E11 Carbine currentlyhas the addition of diatium copper to make it a bleed gun. Instead of a limited run schematic that is the same gun just with one more resource, make it so all E11's have the option of adding something to them. In this example, in the Imperial themepark, instead of the Enhanced E11 schematic you would get a few components that add a bleed effect to an E11, which weaponsmiths could then add to an E11.
IMHO this would be a much better system. It would allow all smiths to have access to the new weapons while it would still enable the smiths who either put the effort into hunting or resources into buying the enhancements to make better weapons. People who are not spawn campers or who do not have millions of spare credits are not cut off from the chance to make new weapons while people who enjoy this still get a benefit from it.
Thoughts?
Imaridril
Mon Apr 19, 2004 7:49 pm
#3
The reason why the schematics are looted is to create rarity. As in all MMOGs, players like being able to have something that not every other player has. I agree that there should be some new items added that have unlimited use schematics, but there also needs to be plenty of rare weapons and armor in the game. A gun that looks like everyone else's but just has a little bit higher damage isn't as special to a player and a gun that is completely unique to what most other players have.
Chavabegga wrote:
For the life of me I can not understand the reason for any new weapons having to come in the form of looted schematics?
Dodece
Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:14 pm
#4
Sadly the schematics. Are not going to work for the rareity issue. On the message thread on this earlier. Someone pointed out that you can simply go back and get the tenloss schematic over and over and over again. You can also go get the scythe twice.
I think a comprehenisive loot system would be better for all concerned. Sadly the game is poorly balanced. So all these temp schems breed is even more camping. They also do not stop mediocre players from gettting these items. If you are utterly determined enough you can grind destroy missions for two weeks. Make three million credits and simply buy one.
Answer would be lootable certs for the player. Then have to have the weaponsmith go pay a npc for a temp schem to make that weapon. Bonuses only people that earn it may use the weapon. You could even make each schem different. Challenging a smith to find the right ingredients to make it good. That way we could have the tinkering and resource gathering time we would like, and the fighter still gets a gun they can show off. If its for a weapon that the player cannot use. They still get the cert but it cant be used unless they learn the skills.
We even would have a bonus. of no uber factory runs to crank out three hundred modified republics. Heck this would be a great way to institute player quests for each fighting class. Say hide the cert for a advanced kinetic tusken. In the tusken fortress, or hide a bleed dot cert scatter pistol schem on the bhs last bounty before he qualifies for bounty hunter investigation four. The weaponsmith has to pay fifty k for a five use schematic. The fighter class has to earn the ability to use the weapon. Result both classes bring something to the table.
Heck colecting certs on all the professions would be a great thing. Since grinding out most professions is relatively fast. Haveing actual skills that you can still go out and aquire might be just what the game needs.
Chavabegga
Mon Apr 19, 2004 8:30 pm
#5
Instead of making unique weapons the result camping a spawn how about making it so weaponsmiths can actually make a weapon different in more respects then the dmg/sp numbers? Experimenting on the other 3 areas is of limited use. Make the crafting process more intricate. Ability to change the damage type or AP rating etc. Things like stocks and scopes but for otheraspects of the gun. Instead of having to use polonium iron in a T21 you can use any iron but its not as good even if the stats are better. Or certain resources have added benefits. For example, scout blasters require aluminum, but if you use link-steel aluminum the condition gets an extra boost, etc.
All guns are the same because there really is not much you can do to make them unique.
Dodece
Mon Apr 19, 2004 9:01 pm
#6
You are right they really need to fix the experimentation ranges. One point off the ham is a waste as is one point to range. When compared to six or seven points of damage. These stats are meager. When I max the damage and have some left over. Goes right into the durability The only secondary stat that really shows.
I would just love to see the scopes get the work they truely need. I want to work on that zero range mod in a serious way. What is the point of a gun that has a ideal outside of where the special mods work best. Its truely bizarre. In other words it only punishes the smith for dareing to put the scope on the gun. The player gets no benefit from it when it comes to specials merely a penalty.
Ananais2
Tue Apr 20, 2004 1:17 am
#7
its mostly because so many people complained at the games lack of leet loot for them to camp and they think by doing it this way and "keeping crafters in the loop" everyone will be happy, personaly im sick of being a loot combineing monkey,
and for all you that aruge you want rare gear, what was wrong with adding a lot more enhancements rather than these schematics which really make no sence atall.
d0qtrX
Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:14 am
#8
Rarity.
Don't you like the idea of being able to sell rare weapons for mega-bucks?
Or would you rather have the new weapons be loot-only?
Jedi_Titus
Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:52 am
#9
The looted schematics are the "easy solution" for the lack of uber loot that combat characters are screaming for. The rarity argument simple does not work. RIS armor is NOT a looted schematic and IS a perminent schematic for armorsmiths how finish the quest. You don't see much RIS armor floating around do you?
I don't have a problem with having some looted schematics, butputting all the new content in as looted schematics is a big mistake (imho). This game is not about loot, crafting is not about loot. But slowly crafting is becoming more and more about loot with every patch. Camping spawns to get the right loot is becoming important. People use to say the game economy was controlled/ran by the crafters. That has completely changed. The game economy is now completely controlled by loot. We need to seriously look at the direction the game is taking; think "what will this look like is 6 months to a year," and desided is that really where we want to go. We need to look at the long term picture(as best we can) to determine what we think of all the loot schematics because NOW is the time to say noand get the devs attention. We may not know everything (ok, we aren't told lots of stuff). But we play this game. It is developed and worked on... FOR US. If we don't like the direction or have issues we need to make that known to the devs (part of the point these boards exist). Six months from now it will be too late..... just my 2 creds
Ananais2
Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:17 am
#10
iv tried to use that same logic so many times just to be met with the same short sighted arugements over and over,
Jedi_Titus wrote:
The looted schematics are the "easy solution" for the lack of uber loot that combat characters are screaming for. The rarity argument simple does not work. RIS armor is NOT a looted schematic and IS a perminent schematic for armorsmiths how finish the quest. You don't see much RIS armor floating around do you?
I don't have a problem with having some looted schematics, butputting all the new content in as looted schematics is a big mistake (imho). This game is not about loot, crafting is not about loot. But slowly crafting is becoming more and more about loot with every patch. Camping spawns to get the right loot is becoming important. People use to say the game economy was controlled/ran by the crafters. That has completely changed. The game economy is now completely controlled by loot. We need to seriously look at the direction the game is taking; think "what will this look like is 6 months to a year," and desided is that really where we want to go. We need to look at the long term picture(as best we can) to determine what we think of all the loot schematics because NOW is the time to say noand get the devs attention. We may not know everything (ok, we aren't told lots of stuff). But we play this game. It is developed and worked on... FOR US. If we don't like the direction or have issues we need to make that known to the devs (part of the point these boards exist). Six months from now it will be too late..... just my 2 creds
but one thing i have to say is when you say crafting, tbh its mostly just us, i armor smiths get wookie armour and RIS as a quest (i know its not technicaly new,but id rather see all the new weps done like this), droidsmiths are getting a crap load of new stuff, chefs got there revamp... to this point were the only ones with all the possible new content to our profesion added as loot instead of new content to the profesion.
Also there seems to be a surge in unique/legendery weps droping latly, especialy in places like the corvete.
Personaly i think the best thing they could do is makemost ofthe new weps work like the RIS quest, some being quest rewards i would like to see, would take some work to get the schem, on our part, not by the spawn campers, and it would still require rare drops to keep combat chars happy, but atleast we would have the schematic.
Dodece
Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:39 am
#11
The reason you do not see ris armor floating around is simple. A player might collect all the parts in two weeks minimum. Harrower bone shards gurk king skins giant peko peko feathers janta blood. Apparantly the gurk king dosent even drop his skins anymore.
Add to that the armor was never all that impressive, and its bugged just like tantel take a shuttle while wearing it and it blows up.
Some people are just morons it seems. There are other solutions then looted schematics and looted weapons. We had this solution for months it was called krayt tissue. Its an enhancement you add to weapons. All this system does is ratchet up prices across the board. Reduces us to manufacture monkeys. That is all it is plain and simple, but I am going to sit back and enjoy as it really hits the fan in a couple months, as more and more weaponsmiths get shoved out of the business, because they dont have the time to obtain thirty temp schematics, and hunt down resources and actually make weapons.
We basically have a master profession that is loseing its perks, and being reduced to prostitution. Best part is that so many of you do not see this. Next patch brings three more temp schems the one after that six or seven. How long till it becomes a constant struggle just to exercise your perks. How long till the number of smiths dwindles away to nothing. Then the combats will have real fun when we can charge anything we want, and they have no options left.
iamsiege7817
Tue Apr 20, 2004 10:38 am
#12
I agree as a weaponsmith I cannot kill a gort let alone anything dropping any enhancements 
Let us as weaponsmiths build ALL the weapons........
However......
The enhancements and components that are loot drops can then be added to weapons to give them bonuses like bleed and poison and such bonuses like that to give the hard core PvP'ers their special guns they cry about.........
And having to pay millions for a schematic then millions more for the component is even more stupid especially when the retards want us to make them the schematic guns forcheap....... and when we try to explain why they cost so much they cry like stupid little babies......I only make special schematic guns if they supply both the schematic and looted components.........
And the people selling just the schematicsfor millionsI want to flame them SOOOOOOOOOO much......... a million for a useless schematic!!!!!!!!!! and whats even worse is the braindead weaponsmiths that actually pay those prices without the needed looted components too!!!!!!! lets not give in to them WE have the power to make the guns not them........ WE should dictate the prices since we have to give up combat to make weapons
Chavabegga
Tue Apr 20, 2004 8:17 pm
#13
Jedi_Titus wrote:
The looted schematics are the "easy solution" for the lack of uber loot that combat characters are screaming for. The rarity argument simple does not work. RIS armor is NOT a looted schematic and IS a perminent schematic for armorsmiths how finish the quest. You don't see much RIS armor floating around do you?
I don't have a problem with having some looted schematics, butputting all the new content in as looted schematics is a big mistake (imho). This game is not about loot, crafting is not about loot. But slowly crafting is becoming more and more about loot with every patch. Camping spawns to get the right loot is becoming important. People use to say the game economy was controlled/ran by the crafters. That has completely changed. The game economy is now completely controlled by loot. We need to seriously look at the direction the game is taking; think "what will this look like is 6 months to a year," and desided is that really where we want to go. We need to look at the long term picture(as best we can) to determine what we think of all the loot schematics because NOW is the time to say noand get the devs attention. We may not know everything (ok, we aren't told lots of stuff). But we play this game. It is developed and worked on... FOR US. If we don't like the direction or have issues we need to make that known to the devs (part of the point these boards exist). Six months from now it will be too late..... just my 2 creds
Its comforting to know there are other people out there who get this. My sister and brother-in-law tried to get me to join them in EQ but after watching them play and seeing the whole purpose seemed to be to loot stuff so you are better at killing harder things from which you can loot better stuff...I decided the game was not for me. SWG offered the promise of doing more then kill, loot, repeat. We make things, and their quality should depend on the amount of skill and effort we put into building the gun, not the amount of money we spent on buying schematics and their required components.
As one person said, we are slowly becoming "loot monkeys". And as Jedi_Titus stated it is up to us to stop it now before we really do become "loot monkeys". Every other crafting profession has gotten new things to make, well maybe not tailors, that were added to their skill trees and not the result of having to loot a schematic.
Armorsmiths can make Wookiee armor, woohoo for us Wooks, and it does not require anything looted. RIS armor was a good idea but just a horrible implemenation. Going and learning the armor piece by piece can be cool. Having to get rare items from around the galaxy from hard things that you can't find, just stupid.
Architects got whole cities, lights, and paintings which they have to purchase the schematic for but require noloot.
Chefs revamp was great. They needed it and it gave them lots of new stuff. Nothing required loot which was good.
DE's are finally getting their revamp,(yippie) They needed it too. Droids will prove useful finally. But DE's, or another crafter,makes everything they need. They did not add any new droid chassis's but they also did not make so in order to make a new droid chassis you had to loot the schematic so thats good.
Even Master Artisans got new items that are not looted in the form of the vehicles.
What do weaponsmiths get? To be fair we did have the most widely used items in the game to begin with. But they are adding new weapons and that is great. I just don't want to have to kill something in order to make a gun. That causes the EQ circle of kill something in order to get something to kill harder something....*shudder*
I really hope this mentality does not leak into the space expansion. "Sorry, I can't make you an X-wing. I need a hyperdrive motivator that is looted off of a 150k HAM100% resist to everything Mechanic."
Message Edited by Chavabegga on 04-20-2004 08:21 PM
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