Weaponsmith Archive

Thread: Looted Schematics...Why?

Dodece
Tue Apr 20, 2004 9:12 pm
#14

There is also the double edged sword of how are we going to accomplish all this. Is it fair that a weaponsmith from day one. Who has five hundred million credits. Basically monopolizes the market. I truely feal for the up and comeing weaponsmiths now. They are being put farther and farther behind. I might be able to pay fourty k for the modified republic featherweight and e11 but can they. The logic behind many professions was simple you played it till you were bored then switched to something else. You were a master doctor and decided to try something else. Well another player simply moves into take your slot. By makeing the weaponsmith profession increasingly more demanding. What is being done is pushing weaponsmiths out of the profession.


Mcdonald mcfey is a part time weaponsmith. He makes vibroknucklers and a few other melee weapons. Its his part time job. He is also a master pistoleer, and combats extensively. Recently his weapons have stopped selling. He did not charge alot for them, and yet the sales are going down. Now comes the time where he realizes he needs to make the new looted weapons, and has to spend alot of time and money to do it. Resolution he quits weaponsmithing.


The result of this kind of thing is harsh. For anyone to do weaponsmith they will have to dedicate themselves to getting all the schematics, and so forth. For someone starting out this will be extremely difficult. So as weaponsmiths retire nobody takes up their place. Result the supply shrinks. Demand stays the same prices skyrocket. Low level players begin to get locked out of the circle.


How long till smiths start to recoop the costs of loots and schems by chargeing greater and greater prices. When will a scatter cost 10 20 or even 40 k. I might be able to keep up with this now, but I am also very concerned with the trend. Jacking up the economy out of sink. Not everyone has the time to collect millions of credits, or the time to hunt down all this stuff. This is a dangerous precident. If the point is for a player to truely improve themselves. Then looted certs would be better. This system is not bringing the weaponsmiths into the fold. It is shoveing many of them out the door.


forthegoodofall
Wed Apr 21, 2004 2:44 am
#15

i personally like the idea of having different types of resources having different effects on the outcome of the weapon. for example, if you're making some random gun that takes some specific resource (in weaponsmith? not possible) but instead of taking a specific type of resource they leave that open and if you use the right combination of resources for that weapon you get some special bonus for that weapon, which could be poison, bleed, or even stat mods like you get on the featherweight, but have more than one combo on any given weapon so there is some uniqueness to weaponsmithing. it could be kind of complicated and when the different combo's were figured out they'd surely be posted for all to see and it would be short lived, but its better than having to pay obscene amounts of money to 14 yr olds who obviously don't understand the basics of economics. it seems the only weapons that sell are the new ones, and when they cost so much people don't seem to understand that its because they charge so much for the loot,it gets frustrating. it makes you wish you could pk them without them having to accept a duel, thank god for ignore lists.


i guess i'm fortunate, i mastered rifles first and weaponsmith second and kept them both. i can go out and loot myself, but that gets old quick. the looted idea could work if you could only learn each schematic once and after the uses are gone you can't learn it again. because of these new schematics credits are becoming so worthless that soon enough some looted item may become the new currency, anyone remember diablo 2 and the stone of jordan? the thing that really concerns me is that the only ones who will be able to do anything in this game will be the established players, the new ones are gonna get the shaft within the next couple months and it will only get worse.



- I support keeping & balancing the pre-CU combat system You can too
boceifus2000
Wed Apr 21, 2004 5:46 am
#16

Why? Somebody a few post back mentioned EQ. EQ there is no decay. The market is overflowing with loot at astronomical prices compared to the amount of platnium that drops off mobs. Why? Because crafted items in EQ are virtually worthless and the rare items are so rare and you need 6 full groups of people to even get a chance of some of those rare drops off mobs that have 7-10 day spawn times. There is no room for crafters in EQ other than chef's and fletchers. Those items are consumables. EQ caters to power gamers. If you area casual EQ gamer you will never get anywhere.


If power gamers had there wish there would be no crafters, everything would be looted.(Diablo?)


Loot is needed in the game to keep everybody happy. Even I would get bored if there was no loot. Vary stats of enhancements and make the highest enhancements rare drops sure, but I agree that the temporary schematics have to stop. All these schematics are doing is makeing weaponsmith a 3rd rate profession compared to all the others.


As far as the econemy, there is no econemy. The standard answer when you ask somebody "How much?" for some of this looted stuff is 1mil. I am a fairly rich weaponsmith but not because of ultra expensive weapons, but because I don't spend credits unless I absolutly have too. I am not a pure crafter for one reason, so I can hunt for the looted stuff myself. I refuse to bring the EQ priceing philosphy into this game and I absoluty refuse to pay sombody millions for something I can hunt for myself. Doing this keeps my cost down to a very decent level so every player has a opportunity to have some of these weapons.





Colonel Boceifus Gadian (BotD)
Retired
Quote: I have seen too much death in my lifetime...

Balanor Gadian
Retired
Quote: I have made so many credits I can buy my own galaxy...
EdOWar
Wed Apr 21, 2004 9:05 am
#17






Dodece wrote:

There is also the double edged sword of how are we going to accomplish all this. Is it fair that a weaponsmith from day one. Who has five hundred million credits. Basically monopolizes the market. I truely feal for the up and comeing weaponsmiths now. They are being put farther and farther behind. I might be able to pay fourty k for the modified republic featherweight and e11 but can they. The logic behind many professions was simple you played it till you were bored then switched to something else. You were a master doctor and decided to try something else. Well another player simply moves into take your slot. By makeing the weaponsmith profession increasingly more demanding. What is being done is pushing weaponsmiths out of the profession.


Mcdonald mcfey is a part time weaponsmith. He makes vibroknucklers and a few other melee weapons. Its his part time job. He is also a master pistoleer, and combats extensively. Recently his weapons have stopped selling. He did not charge alot for them, and yet the sales are going down. Now comes the time where he realizes he needs to make the new looted weapons, and has to spend alot of time and money to do it. Resolution he quits weaponsmithing.


The result of this kind of thing is harsh. For anyone to do weaponsmith they will have to dedicate themselves to getting all the schematics, and so forth. For someone starting out this will be extremely difficult. So as weaponsmiths retire nobody takes up their place. Result the supply shrinks. Demand stays the same prices skyrocket. Low level players begin to get locked out of the circle.


How long till smiths start to recoop the costs of loots and schems by chargeing greater and greater prices. When will a scatter cost 10 20 or even 40 k. I might be able to keep up with this now, but I am also very concerned with the trend. Jacking up the economy out of sink. Not everyone has the time to collect millions of credits, or the time to hunt down all this stuff. This is a dangerous precident. If the point is for a player to truely improve themselves. Then looted certs would be better. This system is not bringing the weaponsmiths into the fold. It is shoveing many of them out the door.








I think you're making some assumptions here without any evidence to back them up. I think there will always be some need for the basic weapons, if only to get the money they need to buy new weapons. But even after they get their new uber Scythe or DXR-6b Disruptor they're still going to needstandard weapons. After all, they spent 300K for the uber-weapon, and it will wear out eventually, so they aren't going to want to use it for every occasion.


I don't think smiths will have to charge more for their standard weapons to recoup the costs for the schematics; in fact, it would be counter productive to do so (if anything, prices on standard weapons might drop). Instead, and this is what I'm seeing on Corbantis, smiths charge more for the new weapons they produce from the schematics. Prices for power hammers and T21s (just as an example) aren't increasing because Scythe Blades and Disruptor Rifles are available. Rather, smiths arerecouping theircosts by charging300K for Scythes and Disruptor Rifles.


True, 300K is a lot of money, and new players will be locked out of those weapons for a while. But what's wrong with that? Why should a new player be able to get a high-end weapon with relatively little effort? Why can't veteran players have a status symbol like a Scythe blade? A new combat player won't be locked out of the high end weapons forever, they just need to run enough missions on one of the adventure planets, which can be done easily enough with standard weapons.


I do kind of like the idea of looted weapon certs, but I don't think it should be a complete replacement for looted schematics. Also, you need to take into consideration whether the combat professions would like that idea (it can't just be forced on them just because weaponsmiths want it that way). And while the looted schematics don't bother me so much, I would still like to see new weapon schematics that are either added permanently, or obtained through a quest (similar to RIS).


Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Kyllian-K
Wed Apr 21, 2004 10:49 am
#18

Personally I think we should get the new schematics with crafting quest's like the RIS armor was supposed to be, leave in the looted components to limit the availablity, but please do not make me forget what i just made, that is stupid, I would gladly spend a week learning the different new components via quest in order to keep them permanently. The Looted components should be kept in to keep the combat monsters happy, we would still need those in the new weapon's and also link them to the current dungeon like the corvette or geno lab.



Kyllian-K Warfield
Master Weaponsmith / Master Artisan / Master Rifleman
KKW WeaponTek
Last Haven, Naboo - Eclipse
Chavabegga
Wed Apr 21, 2004 11:53 am
#19

Removing looted schematics without removing the looted components does not fix the problem. Even if weaponsmiths retain the schematic we still do not have tha ability to make the weapon without going out and killing things or buying parts at ungodly prices. Looting optional enhanced components is fine, looting required components is not.

By giving weaponsmiths new schematics through methods other then loot it does not mean that everyone and their dog will have access to using them. If we have to do a quest for them or even buy them that means they are going to cost more then the original weapons. Veterans players will be able afford them easier then newer players. Veterans players can still get their rare "uber" weapon by looting enhanced components that they can give a weaponsmith to use to make them a special gun.

Maybe even make it so weaponsmiths can learn, through non-combat methods, schematics for special components. These enhanced components can add bleed or poison effects, change damage type, significantly alter speed, damage, HAM cost, range, or alter the armor piercing. Make them have a trade off, kind of like scopes and stocks but for more things. Example, a pistol barrel that adds Medium armor piercing to any gun its added too, the trade off is that slows the weapon down by 3.0sp, or make the adds -20 to all range modifiers. This would add variety to weapons. Pistoleers are screaming for a medium armor piercing gun, this way they could have one, but at a cost. This would really allow smiths to make unique weapons.

Yeah got a little off the topic of looted schematics but hey, its my thread hehe.

Back to the point, get rid of the looted schematics and components!!



Trader Revamp- Loot and Crafted Symbiosis

UDF Inc. Chu'unthor, Talus
-1258, -566
Dodece
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:31 pm
#20

Well in an odd twist werent the temp schematics foisted upon us. The problem is new players can get these items with mere mind numbing grinding. For an example at novice marksman one day I ground out one hundred and fifty thousand credits. Just doing missions out of eisley. This was before vehicles and mounts. With those now in play dump on another hundred thousand credits. So technically if you are just grinder fodder you can get the uber weapon in just a couple days work.


The example I was makeing is that a profession difficult enough is only being made harder. Lets be realistic look at master bh. Before the points patch on that profession. Hardly anyone tried to become a master bh. What one in fifteen hundred players were a master bh if that. The profession was not impossible but extremely difficult. Now add weapon systems based on looted schematics. More work to get them.


Speaking as a combat profession. If I went into a shop and found that they did not carry all the weapons. That shop did not find its way on to my datapad. The real problem is this is not the occassional loot schematic. Its becomeing the basis of more and more weapons. These are also not temporary phenomena. I have heard nothing about removeing the quests or dungeons after a month or so they are obviously to be permanant. The next patch brings three more of these weapons. The number is definately riseing.


A simple point of dev logic to make too. The fewer people in a profession the less import they are given. Anything that affects the novice will affect us too. Besides this is a game its supposed to be fun. These schematics are more work then fun.


fuzzmana
Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:49 pm
#21

chavabegga I agree with you on the quest for wpns like the AS had, thats a great idea....but.....


I like the looted schmatics idea. your a crafter, you have a way to make money with out running mission from the mission terms, granted you worked hard to get there. But Combat classes can use these schmatics to make money. They enjoy the combat aspect of the game, so they take there high lvl combat class into these new dungeons that we would get destroyed in, loot these rare components and schmatics and want to be paid for it, so it works out for both sides.


Just my two cents but i would like to see the quest wpns put in too, things like the DXR-6 rifle that you can get over and over and over they could make a quest rifle, but the scythe right now that a person can only get twice is cool as rare.





-Clonius- Master Wpnsmith/ Master Tailor
MIA- Killed by SOE's stupidty

Valcyn Server

Be sure to check out the Union of Crafters Mall in Mercadia, Naboo. Tons of reliable crafters with very reasonable prices
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