Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Rifle SAC DOES NOT need to be below 95!!!
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Puttley
Thu Jul 14, 2005 1:22 am
#1
http://www.freewebs.com/uttley/WS%20little%20Helper%20v0.4%20Alpha.xls
here is my new weapon experimentation/prediction tool - loaded in is the 'perfect' weapon in support of my testing above - SAC just below 100 and damage/speed capped (to the limits of my xp remaining)witha speed pup. nice with a 160 dam krayt tissue. i'll be making it tonight so i'll post a pic to see how close my spreadsheet is too. then perhaps i'll show how i won't run out of action with it despite no SAC pup and still out damage just about everyone.
the weapon (if you don't care to check the link):
489-1182 damage
2.4 base speed
0.92 modified speed (32% speed pup and 179 speed (M.BH & M.rilfes + FS + 50 inSEAs)
99 SAC
908 DPS and no chance of running out of action when alternation from ranged to placed shot!
ie firing every 1.6 seconds for 1150 avarage damage
(speed tested @http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=weaponsmith&message.id=83750&view=by_date_ascending&page=3)
Message Edited by Puttley on 07-14-2005 09:34 AM
Message Edited by Puttley on 07-14-2005 09:41 AM
Bermag
Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:35 am
#2
Hmm interesting. Need to test this myself. However this is a bit boring IMO. Only use two basic attacks.
Puttley
Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:51 am
#3
this is more about leaving a large ammount of action available for the "interesting" attacks while still having access to good damage. nothing worse than bashing away on head and critical shots then when you need a KD for a break to heal you have no action!
AndJusticeForAll
Thu Jul 14, 2005 5:58 am
#4
For kiting high end mobs i used a macro that does these.... for things like jedi hunting i use ALL of my attacks... if he's down to 20% life you go for the crit shot... it might crit and instand incap him.... whereas placed/ranged shot he will just laugh at and force heal.
ranged/placed shot is not the end all of killing with ranged weapons, regardless of what your data shows.
edit:
now do some tests while you get speed buff from doc, id like to see how that affects the dps of the longer warmup attacks
Message Edited by AndJusticeForAll on 07-14-2005 07:59 AM
Bermag
Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:03 am
#5
Puttley wrote:
this is more about leaving a large ammount of action available for the "interesting" attacks while still having access to good damage. nothing worse than bashing away on head and critical shots then when you need a KD for a break to heal you have no action!
Yes. however, with a action reduction sac (think sac on weapon is 80-90 range) I can spam specials without getting out of action. If I understand what you wrote above you could fire more shots using ranged/placed shot because they fire faster than the high end specials ? or was the higher number of shots with ranged/placed because you run out of action with the high-end specials?
Summerflame
Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:47 am
#6
Tried this with my Carbineer
Was buffed with Adrenaline boost and Endorphin Ejection as I allways is when I hunt.
Used the following Carbine:
Speed 2.55 (modded 1.76 )
Dam 617-1074 (Pupped)
DPS 330.86 (Modded 480.12
SAC 78
Used the following specials (number in brachets indicate which was used at which test)
Improved Leg Shot (1) did 795 (when not knockdowned)
Advanced Rapid Fire (1) did 627 (when not knockdowned)
Charge Shot (1&2)
Stopping Shot (1&2)
Ranged Shot (2) did 419 (When not knockdowned)
Placed Shot (2) did 460 (when not knockdowned)
When I fight I start by rooting then changing between the 2 damage shots till the creature stops ebing rooted, then knockdown and change between the 2 dam shots again till I run out of Action. I allways keep enough action for stopping shot and for knockdown + the 3 shots I can get in when its knockdowned.
This was tested on Giant krayts
Giant number 1
Start 15.20.06
End 15.23.44
Fight lenght: 3.38 mins
Ran out of action pretty quikly after the first knockdown
Giant number 2
Start 15.27.11
End 15.31.12
Fight Lenght 4.11 mins
Ran out of action at 15.28.45 meaning 1.36 mins into the fight
So as a Carbineer at least (and possibly also for the other professions)I would say that as Low SAC as possibleis still very important and using the High damaging shots will get your target killed faster
Not I didnt take any food /spices/drinksduring this test.
Message Edited by Summerflame on 07-14-2005 03:48 PM
Summerflame
Thu Jul 14, 2005 6:52 am
#7
my test might only hold true in longer fights when the SAC starts getting drained on the low special attacks, but then again I dont really fight anything that is not highend mobs (and thus longer fights)
And the original post was about low sac weapons not being important and I think my test shows that its still very important in longer fights
Hcrista
Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:32 am
#8
Test it in other mobs like djm, gorax, ancient krayt or in pvp against a 4-x-x-x doc or jedi.
Puttley
Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:40 am
#9
The way I see it is ranged/placed does +0.6% more damage over 30s than head/critical shot does. And over that 30s ranged/placed uses 70% less action than head/critical shot.
During that test I ran it for only 60secs where the opponent didn’t hit me, and I didn’t heal – ie no uncontrollable interruptions – I never ran out of action for either test. (but got very close with head/critical combo).
Yes putting an action reduction pup basically negates this difference in action use, but if you’ll not run out of action and can do the same damage with either attack combo why not put a speed on instead and further increase your damage output? The extra speed from the pup will use more action but then just use neutron pixie and adecent action food.
Puttley
Thu Jul 14, 2005 7:52 am
#10
in reference to summerflame's testing the importance in SAC does hold true - most attacks, if not all other than range and placed use 15%+ action every time. this is where my theory begins to fall apart (it works in just pure damage attacks). its then to do with tactics - personally i only really use KD occasionally and leg shot. from what i've seen most 'states' don't work effectivly and are not worth the time to place - theses good post in Game Guides about this.
Summerflame
Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:02 am
#11
Puttley wrote:
The way I see it is ranged/placed does +0.6% more damage over 30s than head/critical shot does. And over that 30s ranged/placed uses 70% less action than head/critical shot.
During that test I ran it for only 60secs where the opponent didn’t hit me, and I didn’t heal – ie no uncontrollable interruptions – I never ran out of action for either test. (but got very close with head/critical combo).
Yes putting an action reduction pup basically negates this difference in action use, but if you’ll not run out of action and can do the same damage with either attack combo why not put a speed on instead and further increase your damage output? The extra speed from the pup will use more action but then just use neutron pixie and adecent action food.
I think the point Im trying to make is that your testing time is to short.
Try testing it for 4 mins and then return with the data 
Im pretty sure that you will run out of action on the lowend specials as well
Puttley
Thu Jul 14, 2005 8:22 am
#12
almost cirtainly true - i would run out of action, if i found i didn't then the game mechanics would be extremely broken - i could spam attacks as pre-cu (in this case ranged VS critical) doing maximum damage. what using ranged shot allows is a longer time till action bottoms out completely and you need to rest in some way and also the ability not to have to worry as much about what action you have left in terms of saving some for shots like root or KD
Puttley
Thu Jul 14, 2005 12:54 pm
#13
done some tests (a second lot - some was done on the rifleman forums a while back and i wanted to check again).
THEORY:
Ranged & placed Shot back to back do more damage over time than Improved Headshot and Advanced Critical shot
TEST CONDITIONS:
both tests done with exact same weapon, mods, clothing, pups, foods....etc. only difference is the attacks used. attack queued ready for next shot before attack time comes - perfect timing. both tests done vs level 81 creature while kiting so no pauses for healing or being hit. i'm constantly running.
RESULTS:
Ranged & placed Shot
32 shots in 62 seconds
= 1.94 seconds per shot avarage
= 1134 damage per shot avarage (1080 ranged, 1188 placed)
DPS = 584.5
Imp. Headshot & Adv. Critical
17 shots in 60 seconds
= 3.53 seconds per shot avarage
= 1998 damage per shot avarage (1944 head, 2052 critical)
DPS = 566
as ranged/placed shot takes only about 5% action per shot (roughly 1% for ranged and 10% for placed) where critical/head take about 17% (critical 18, headshot 16%). it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that there is almost NO USE to using high damage attacks over the very basic attacks. save the action for the high action draining shots like confuse, KD, etc. and use the toolbar slot currently used by Headshot or adv critical to store the extra food you may need instead.
in summary this puts an end to the 'uber' weapons being ones with caped low SAC! i spam ranged & placed shot doing more damage over time that high damage attacks that use a huge ammount of action and result in not having to use a SAC PUP. i can even use a 30% speed pup with a Adv. laser rifle with 99 SAC (the mod weapon speed then at 0.93) and not run out of action!
my advice is to tell customers to use the most basic ranged/melee attack for damage, save the action then for KD, dizzy type attacks when needed. make weapons (rilfes at least - im unfamilar withe the speeds of other proffesions) with 95-100 sac and put a speed PUP on it. if you get the mod speed down to about 1sec (master template, clothing, pups etc) you'll be doing 600-700 damage per sec with action only taking a small knock - if even moving. put your experimentation into speed and damage once you hit 95ish SAC
Message Edited by Puttley on 07-19-2005 01:41 PM
Message Edited by Puttley on 07-19-2005 01:44 PM
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