Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: FWG5 and Other Projectile Feed Weapons Anyone know the Patch Impact?
Does anyone know how the pending patch will impact the FWG5, Scatter, and other pistols that are being changed? I know they plan to take out the power handlers (which would reduce damage and increase speed), but they have also mentioned some changes to the Projectile components? Anyone have any specific numbers or ideas of how this will impact the FWG5, Scatter, and other pistols?
Jimm
Makes no sense to take PH from scatter. Take it from FWG yes, but from scatter would be stupid being that will lower the damage on the scatter considerably no matter what they do to it. Thanks doonium iron being total 1019 on my server theres a lot of room to grow but i just dont see doonium spawning in uber stats anyway.
I think take it from FWG5 and fix the DX2 for pistoleers. I know this needs a big update. Taking them from elite pistol certs would be straight stupid.
I hope they leave scatter and launcher be, fix DX2 and give republic blaster a cert. Not hard..
Ronian TItus
Master Bounty Hunter
hahahahahahahaha look who's trying to save his own overpowered weapon
Scatter is far more overpowered than FWG5 because it's armor piercing AND has much higher dps. BH with scatter does more damage per shot than a rifleman using headshot3 with a T21 and shoots 4-5 times for every shot the rifleman gets.
Top-end doonium iron has the same OQ/con as top-end generic iron, so it's not the resources.
Scatter should be a MUCH better weapon than an FWG5.
My theory is this....
Fixed feeders will have a min added, say they keep their max and speed so 20-38, -0.78
Current FWG5 - 65-210, 1.8
Remove PH (20-40, -0.4), keep in Feeder. Feeder min damage keeps the weapon at 65, PH removal drops 40 from max damage and adds 0.4 to speed.
FWG5 ==> 65-170, 2.2
Which is more in-line withimprovement over theScout Blaster at Pistol III but not as good as the DX2 at Novice Pistoleer or the Scatter/Launcher in Novice Commando/BH
Actually my whole point jen was to say that DX2, scatter and launcher pistol are ELITE profession pistols shouldnt be messed with and DX2 needs to be fixed. FWG5 is marksman therefore it really shouldnt be anywhere near what these should be. And if you think BH's and scatters are overpowered then i encourage you to run up the Bh tree and master it yourself. Your just saying its overpowered cause your on the outside looking in. Whats wrong get eyeshotspamed too much? So be it as it may, you shouldnt talk about another profession you probably have no clue about.
If you make the argument we are overpowered your right in certain ways, BUT i can assure you spending 217 points in other professions i could make a character template a LOT more overpowering than that of the BH. Even tho im master i am pretty knowledgeable of what classes can do what. Spending 217 points i think scatters should be actually a lot better than they are. And we should have our own Cryoban Carbine (cold damage) but those arguments and stuff i will leave on the BH boards.
Saving my scatter from nerf? I think not .. i have no say in what they do and neither do you. They nerf PH on scatter, launcher, and other eliteweapons it still wont effect me as i have backups for backups and storages full of krayt/feed mech'd scatters waiting to be sliced. So take your argument about BH's being overpowered to my BH board and get owned jennai, otherwise **edit** and please drive through cause i sure didnt ask you for your opinion.
Anyway, for everyone else my whole point was in agrument that some of the higher cert weapons should be more inline with eachother vs. the marksman weapons. Elite carbine? I think they need to redo this carbine all together and make it more powerful than Laser. DX2? Ya that speaks for itself, it also should be higher damage and fix the AR for god sakes. Launcher? This weapon is pretty powerful as it is. Needs no change imo other than the graphic of it blowing up everything on the screen LOL. Scatter can be a little more damaging 20 or so damage would be nice, Nothing TOO drastic. T21 should be set back to pre-nerf (even tho being one shotted by advanced strafe gets old) but hey them the breaks. Oh and not to forget the mysterious "Ghost" cert for republic blaster... LOL come on. Gotta love Beta 4 we are in.
So i agree with PH being taken from FWG5, although i dont agree with PH's being taken from other elite cert'd weapons. As i stressed before, not like we can do anything about it.
Ronian Titus
Master Bounty Hunter
RonianTitus wrote:
Scatter can be a little more damaging 20 or so damage would be nice, Nothing TOO drastic.
thanks to this statement, your entire post is has lost all meaning since anyone who thinks the scatter is underpowered clearly has no grasp whatsoever of weapon balance.
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LLJK_Griz wrote:
Scatter is far more overpowered than FWG5 because it's armor piercing AND has much higher dps. BH with scatter does more damage per shot than a rifleman using headshot3 with a T21 and shoots 4-5 times for every shot the rifleman gets.
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Point 1:
Scatter: 110-180 avg = 145 (more HAM usage, huge Action drain)
FWG: 65-210 avg = 137 (less HAM usage, more balanced HAM drain)
You sure nailed it, that is "much higher dps", 8 average damage, WOW. Armor piercing is bugged too in some cases, but I'm sure you know. Funny how you mention that Scatter is AP1 while fwg is AP0 and fail to mention that T21s are AP3. Again you are wrong, a master marksman/master rifleman has 95 speed, that and a small 200-300k investment for a +5 rifle speed tape means 1s specials. To make things clear, a rifleman shoots FASTER than a pure BH (BH speed caps out at like 80ish), throw out some average damage stats for kicks, you can even ignore the AP, who has higher DPS now?
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LLJK_Griz wrote:
The scatter will still be much better than the FWG5 because it will still have its armor piercing, much higher average damage per shot, and ridiculously overpowered BH pistol moves. The change is more to balance pistols with other weapon types than to balance them against each other.
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Point 2:
Not much to comment here other than your "much higher average" which is obviously wrong. You comment about "ridiculously overpowered BH pistol moves" is also incorrect. The damage multiplier on Eyeshot/Torsoshot are much lower than elite attaks in other pistol professions (and lets not even start on Strafe2/Crippling shot), Last Ditch will easily do double the damage than any BH pistol attack and Stopping shot is quite a bit stronger too. Eyeshot is not without its uses but easily blocked with a helmet (one piece of armor to block mind damage compared to 4 for health and 4 for action = much less enc hit). You DO pvp with armor right?
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LLJK_Griz wrote:
thanks to this statement, your entire post is has lost all meaning since anyone who thinks the scatter is underpowered clearly has no grasp whatsoever of weapon balance.
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Point 3:
Please stay in your shop instead of trying to debate over real world usage of guns as you apparently have no clue. I am not debating that scatter has more pure damage output than a fwg, but you should have taken things into account like HAM, and the difference is not as large as you would make it out to be (personally I use my fwg a lot more than my scatter unless I am buffed or pvping). Also, has it occured to you that Scatters/Launcher pistols are suppose to be stronger than DX2s/FWGs because they are a core weapon of the advanced hybrid classes? If your stats are buffed and you are willing to make the skillpoint/money investment ANY weapon can be spammed at 1s, with pistols having the lowest dps out of any projectile weapon type you tell me what you think is balanced.
As per Thunderheart (DEV), basically this change is not a nerf is fixing a bug.
As per their expectation, firearms should only have 1 power supply, either combination of Power Handler + Blaster Pistol Barrel or Projectile Pistol Barrel + Feeding Mech.
Currently FWG5, Scatter, Launcher (Bowcaster as well as I heard ) are using Power Hanlder + Projectile Pistol Barrel + Feeding Mech, and which make it much superior than other firearms.
As the feed mech component would be fixed as the new draft schematics in effect. We might expect the changes would be around 30 max damage less and .3 slower.
In certain, if the new crafter experimentation % implement as well. Basically all crafter including weaponsmith could only max1 experimentation bar, which most likely the damage/speed. The modification for duraction(condition) and effecticient (HAM cost) would be minimize unless the specific weaponsmith have 110+ weapon experiment skill.
In fact, which change make the after-patch weapon market be different, it's only refering how many pre-patch weapons you have stock for sale and it's hard for weaponsmith todo a better job. It had made me consider my retirement plan for weaponcrafting indeed.
Just want to pitch in my two cents:
The bugged projectile pistol barrel was 10-10 -.77 or so, after the fix it was 20-20 -.105 or so. Applying this to the projectile feed we can assume the following if the pre-fix stats were 0-38 -.56 (Not sure about the speed): Post fix stats of 0-76 -.76. This means unless you are making ABPH with damage greater than 38 then you won't be losing any max damage. To sum up, my FWs are 61-208 1.7 speed. After the patch they should be about 43-209 1.9 speed. This does lower the DPS, but the maximum damage will be unaffected and the speed will increase marginally. There are too many issues on test at the time of this post to actually validate my theory (what with the crafting bugs) but this should be an accurate assumption.
Comparing pure BH to anything is an unrealistic assumption because the majority of BH seem to have pistoleer to get over 100 pistol speed and whatever pistoleer moves that don't suck.
I go hunting voritors (4013 rifleman) with a low level pistoleer (2003 or something). Each one takes about a minute to kill, with me using HS2/3 with a damage sliced speed powerup laser rifle, and him using a DX2 or FWG5 (don't remember). We get 3500 exp per kill and are outputting roughly the same amount of damage.
Then, half-assed BH with only pistol tree and some pistoleer joins the group. He spams some pistoleer move for 3-4k once per second, or eyeshot for 2-3k once per second. Voritors drop in under ten seconds each, and the pistoleer and I get 100-200 exp per kill.
More damage than a damage sliced laser rifle but six times faster, and you still say it's not overpowered?
ooooohhhhhaaaaahhhh wrote:
Just want to pitch in my two cents:
The bugged projectile pistol barrel was 10-10 -.77 or so, after the fix it was 20-20 -.105 or so. Applying this to the projectile feed we can assume the following if the pre-fix stats were 0-38 -.56 (Not sure about the speed): Post fix stats of 0-76 -.76. This means unless you are making ABPH with damage greater than 38 then you won't be losing any max damage. To sum up, my FWs are 61-208 1.7 speed. After the patch they should be about 43-209 1.9 speed. This does lower the DPS, but the maximum damage will be unaffected and the speed will increase marginally. There are too many issues on test at the time of this post to actually validate my theory (what with the crafting bugs) but this should be an accurate assumption.
Prepatch feeders are +38 -0.38. Combined with the crafting experiment nerf your not going to reach 76 -0.76 unless you have axidite iron and quadranium steel with UT around 1000. Since we know thats NEVER going to happen we will probably still be cranking out +40 -0.40 feeders still .. but WAIT! They increase our CHANCE of doubling the feeder, kinda like Mc Donalds returned our chance of winning monopoly too after that big scandal. Sure it would offset it if you had a chance of good resources but feeders require two materials that always seem to have constant UT. Just about every spawn of axidite iron was 600-650 and qaudranium steel always scores between 800 and 900. I think they are precoded to always fall within this realm just like plumbum will never break 100 on a spawn short of hacking the database yourself.