Weaponsmith Archive

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Muzz wrote:

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TheNarcis wrote:

Here is another question for all of you weaponsmiths. Will the decent guns still be 8-20 mil a piece if this was changed? If so then all the power to the ADK.

Message Edited by TheNarcis on 10-18-2005 03:26 PM

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Maybe you should start by asking the EPC looters if they are going to still be 6-7 mil per stack.

Message Edited by Muzz on 10-18-2005 10:06 PM

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No, you can ask all the rich weaponsmiths on each server, outbidding their rivals, and making posts on how much they would pay (rediculous amounts) for the components, so they automatically collect them.

And I had guns that sell for 20 mil given to me for the loot cost which was about 4 mil. So you do the math. Markup = extreme.

This is becoming more a battle of greed. I do agree there should only be one ADK per person, but it should remain the way it is.

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TheNarcis wrote:

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Muzz wrote:

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TheNarcis wrote:

Here is another question for all of you weaponsmiths. Will the decent guns still be 8-20 mil a piece if this was changed? If so then all the power to the ADK.

Message Edited by TheNarcis on 10-18-2005 03:26 PM

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Maybe you should start by asking the EPC looters if they are going to still be 6-7 mil per stack.

Message Edited by Muzz on 10-18-2005 10:06 PM

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No, you can ask all the rich weaponsmiths on each server, outbidding their rivals, and making posts on how much they would pay (rediculous amounts) for the components, so they automatically collect them.

And I had guns that sell for 20 mil given to me for the loot cost which was about 4 mil. So you do the math. Markup = extreme.

This is becoming more a battle of greed. I do agree there should only be one ADK per person, but it should remain the way it is.

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maigy wrote:

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Muzz wrote:

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Summerflame wrote:

The best Idea I have seen so far was making the ADK bio link the weapon when used. When destroying the weapon the adk would be returned to tradable status

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How is that so much different from what we have now? If the ADK became tradeable when the weapon was destroyed there's not really much of a change from the current situation. Look at most auctions for ADK'd weapons. Most of the bidders are in it for the ADK not the weapon.

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Actually what I see are that most actions selling an ADK are asking for an ADK in return + some cash

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Message Edited by Muzz on 10-18-2005 10:53 PM

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Kal_Serrak wrote:

I'd like to present some issues: (I think they haven't been mentioned yet, or at least in passing)

2. Speaking of my beloved and totally borked smuggler profession, ADKs have the additional harm of dwindling the slicing market somewhat. Past are the days where a player brought up 15 loot-enhanced power hammers for me to slice, instead replaced with the one capped hammer with a ADK on it. (Not that I'm going to mention how the new slicing system also hurt weaponsmiths O_^). ADKs do hurt more than just the armorsmiths and weaponsmiths.

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I think that had more to do with zero failures. Blame your revamp for not needing to slice but one item. (No one needs to buy a crate of weapons to get a slice,ONE weapon and getONE no-fail slice of your choosing).If abetter weapon comes along, rinse-repeat. ADK'd or not, you would have only been asked to slice one weapon. Period.

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Kal_Serrak wrote:

3. Finally, the fact that items do not decay - and uberloot drops may be preserved indefinitely - has raised the price of these items (uber loots, CA/AAs, etc.) which in turn is drastically inflating the economy. And to be in a system where a small portion of the community controls the most valuable commodity, and how its distributed - while being a triumphant replication of real world economics - discourages many players now [for example, how Bounty Hunters seem to a strong hold on looted slicing components].

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This coorelation seems the hardest for me to grasp. Because a BH can ADK a scatter, which takes one from his stack of 6, he can charge 2mil per cell? Why wouldn't he charge that much if they DID decay? Seems if a person needs more than one, to account for a presumed eventual loss, stacks would become even more valuable. Uber weaopns commanded millions WELL BEFORE ADK's hit the market. Of the BHs I've supplied with double cap weapons, maybe half get ADK'd. And they keep coming back for more, even the few that have ADKs.

Bottom line, if you make something people want to buy, they will buy. If they ADK it, they ADK it. But the second you make something better, guess who's going to delete last month's uber weapon and come knocking on your door for the next best thing...

With caps, though, our market dries up quicker - at least, it dwindles to a trickle. Decay, or lack of decay, has nothing to do with that.

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Kal_Serrak wrote:

I personally own several ADKs, and to be honest I could not delete/change them myself - they're too infinitely useful. Many of the "Have" players will also fight it adamently because they've invested hundreds of millions and hordes of time building up those +20x6 AA armor sets, those 12m+ weapons or those perfect lightsabers.

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I think, when it all comes down to it, this is yet another argument between haves and have-nots, like you said. But NOT between rich and poor.

What follows is not directed at anyone in particular...

I wonder, though, the absolute MOST ADK's that can be on your server is one per player. Let's assume that a majority of the players aren't newer than a year old and go ahead and give them one anyway, just for giggles. How many would sell theirs? For each one that does, that's one person that can't have ANY ADK's. What about the fat-cat that has his entire suit ADK'd? That's6 others that can't have a single ADK.

Now, back to reality. I would assume that not everyone is eligible for an ADK. I imagine that we got a lot of newplayers with RotS. Therefore, a whole generation of ADK-challenged people play our game. Are they buying weapons from you hardcore? Why not? They suffer from decay, so why aren't they beating down your doors to pick up a 20k scatter?

I wonder how many ADK's are on the market. How many are put on rare loot items like BS Ace Helmets or Nightsister Biceps, or any other item which can't be crafted and doesn't impact any crafting profession? How many are sitting with sleeping toons who won't awake until their owners re-up or get deleted? How many people who play today aren't eligible for an ADK?

Even in a perfect world, there can only be one ADK per person. This person would still have to buy other weapons, suits of armor, collections of clothes, etc. etc. etc... At any given moment, my toon can be wearing or equipped with 12 different items. If everyone cares to be as completely clothed as I do, that's 11 items they CAN'T ADK. That's not to mention his alternate weapons, alternate clothes, alternate armor, other loot - the multitude of other craftable things that can be ADK'd that now CAN'T be simply because there aren't enough ADK's to go around or make a difference.

Why aren't youhaving a hard time keeping things stocked? It's not because of ADK's. They aren't even on the map.

double

Message Edited by Dekka1 on 10-18-2005 03:09 PM

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TheNarcis wrote:

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Muzz wrote:

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TheNarcis wrote:

Here is another question for all of you weaponsmiths. Will the decent guns still be 8-20 mil a piece if this was changed? If so then all the power to the ADK.

Message Edited by TheNarcis on 10-18-2005 03:26 PM

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Maybe you should start by asking the EPC looters if they are going to still be 6-7 mil per stack.

Message Edited by Muzz on 10-18-2005 10:06 PM

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No, you can ask all the rich weaponsmiths on each server, outbidding their rivals, and making posts on how much they would pay (rediculous amounts) for the components, so they automatically collect them.

And I had guns that sell for 20 mil given to me for the loot cost which was about 4 mil. So you do the math. Markup = extreme.

This is becoming more a battle of greed. I do agree there should only be one ADK per person, but it should remain the way it is.

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shilo2 wrote:

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TheNarcis wrote:

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Muzz wrote:

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TheNarcis wrote:

Here is another question for all of you weaponsmiths. Will the decent guns still be 8-20 mil a piece if this was changed? If so then all the power to the ADK.

Message Edited by TheNarcis on 10-18-2005 03:26 PM

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Maybe you should start by asking the EPC looters if they are going to still be 6-7 mil per stack.

Message Edited by Muzz on 10-18-2005 10:06 PM

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No, you can ask all the rich weaponsmiths on each server, outbidding their rivals, and making posts on how much they would pay (rediculous amounts) for the components, so they automatically collect them.

And I had guns that sell for 20 mil given to me for the loot cost which was about 4 mil. So you do the math. Markup = extreme.

This is becoming more a battle of greed. I do agree there should only be one ADK per person, but it should remain the way it is.

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not all weaponsmiths are rich!

crazy thought eh!!

in fact about 80% of weaponsmiths are not rich, the 20% of smiths have been around for a LOOONG time, and have put the hard time and effort into building there company to be rich. Or they they may have had a pile of cash, and looted a +25 CA and decided to buy there way to being a topend smith.

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Just a thought, but wouldnt a better idea be to make it so more weapons were useful thus forceing players to use multiple weapons. From what i gather weapons come in two types energy and kinetic. So realistically a player need only rely on 1 weapon in combat and can rely heavily upon it. If say weapons had more effective variations things could change.

The old damage types were good and npcs need to get those resists back. Useing a fwg5 should have a heat bonus thats more effective against heat vuln creatures and so forth. I havent noticed any difference in different weapons use against creatures. A lightning cannon is just as good as a scatter which is as good as a featherweight.

This is my number one gripe about armor why am I paying for special resist anyway its not like it seems to do anything.

I have around 28adk´s myself spread on different characters and my suggestion forthis is short and simple:

That adk´editems wont decay to death, powerups and for armor it should decay 2x slower

Dom / -Dom-

Message Edited by TheNarcis on 10-18-2005 03:26 PM

Personally I think the ADK fits in two different areas:

first, for Jedi's, since the drop rate of HQ Pearls is non-existant, the ability to replace extremely valuable deteriorating pearls is impossible. Until the devs can provide an easy means for Jedi to replace those deteriorating pearls the ADK is the only viable solution. Jedi sabers have no effect on the weaponsmith industry, and Jedi use of ADK's have no effect on the armoursmiths and a limited to no effect on Tailors (since currently even if clothing deteriorates to zero, the installed SEA's would still be useful).

second, for all other professions, I think the use of ADK's certainly slow down the need for new weapons, but as has been mentioned in an earlier post, whenever there has been some way to create new and better weapons, those weapons were purchased and the old ones destroyed to free up the ADK for application of the new weapon. The number of weapon enhancement drops have kept a steady enough pace to keep the sale prices of these weapons high. I wonder if combat professions didn't have the use of ADK's for their weapons, would they necessarily spend the many millions of credits to purchase these high end weapons, knowing that they would soon deteriorate to uselessness? Maybe they would just buy the more economical well crafted versions, selling for hundreds of times less, (by the crate)and just use power ups, etc. to achieve the uberness they get now. I think the buyers of my very high end weapons today are more willing to spend the millions of credits I charge because they know they will put an ADK on it to protect it. In a way, I kind of like making weapons one by one rather than maintaining a set of factories non-stop to keep my inventories stocked with crates of weapons. I also use a smaller amount of resources as well.

Finally, I believe what has hurt the weaponsmith profession more than the ADKs are the looted weapons. If a player can just do a quest that takes them a couple of days for no cost, and end up with a weapon that is as good (maybe better) than one made by the local weaponsmith union, what incentive does a player have to buy any of our weapons (I haven't made a set of Knucklers since pre-cu .. ala Katarn)? I think the Devs have the right idea with looted parts and schematics, keeping us in the loop, but at the end of the day, the Devs need to provide the weaponsmith with a way to make as good and hopefully better weapons than those looted from quests and NPCs.

What kind of solution should there be? I am not sure ... maybe set up a classification system so that some weapons could have an ADK attached to them, but as Summerflame suggested, would be bio-linked to the person who owned the ADK so that in that state is becomes untradeable. Maybe the classification could be tied to some system that determines how easy it would be for a weapon to be reproduced. For example, Sabers are impossible to reproduce at this time due to the non-existant drop rate of Flawless Pearls, so the ADK usefullness would be indefinite, but a Power Cell enhanced HLR would be able to be reproduced at a much more frequent rate (since Power Cells so in fact still drop!), so the ADK applied on that weapon would actually have a decay rate initiated when applied to an HLR. The same procedure could also be followed with Amour as well.

just my two cents

P.S. I also think weapon certifications should actually mean something. If you are a Master Combat profession and are using the weapon you are certified to use, you should have some kind of bonus. This would at least create a market for a wider variety of weapons than just the same old ALR's or Featherweights. It would also limit the tradeability of those weapons because not everyone would be able to use that weapon. Maybe not quite apparent in something like the BH profession where you have half the population, but smugglers, squad leaders, pistoleers, etc. would be limited in their marketability of their personal ADK'd weapons.

Message Edited by Geodan on 10-18-2005 02:39 PM

Message Edited by Geodan on 10-18-2005 02:47 PM