Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: The gap between Novice and Master
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Tautology
Sat Jan 29, 2005 6:21 am
#27
samijx wrote:
If you want to lay into someone for exploiting the econimy, go find that jerk!.
Did you read my posting before or after you replied?
They should have an age restriction here.
I´ll stay away from the discussion here now, good luck.
wingedim
Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:51 am
#28
Okay so I just got my Novice WS and the question I have is why should I be punished for not being a master (yet) by not being able to sell my non-uber weapons? Yes everyone wants the very best in everything they get, I understand that, but if I cannot experiment to at least try and match that of a master's weapon what's the point of even becoming a WS? I play my character like he would be living his life. He's got other stuff to do rather than just sit in front of a crafting station grinding up to become a master. He wants to make a buck like everyone else and wants to round out various skills that would benefit his life. I chose WS because everyone needs a weapon of some sort to live in the galaxy unless you decide you are going to buy everything you need.
I build up my resources like everyone else, and because I wanted to become a WS I didn't really focus on making money first. I am more interested in making my weapons and selling them to make my money rather than picking up loot and selling it. That's not my character. He's an artisan and therefore makes his money by selling the stuff he makes.
Would I aspire to become a master if changes were made to experimentation, probably yes only so that I could offer the wide variety of weapons that are in demand. Perhaps though I would only speacialize in certain weapons so that I could then spend skill points in other areas to further round out my character.
This is a game that mirrors the 'life' of a Star Wars genre character, not some game that you can solve in a matter of weeks. Are changes needed in minimizing the gap between master and novice? Yes I think there are. The suggestion of the experimentation points was a very good one, and as you go up the tree you have less critical failures with your experimentation (and make the decrease in critical failure occur with lateral movement not vertical like you have to advance in piloting). This allows for EVERYONE regardless of profession to sell their wares and make money and not necessarily have to grind to master so they can do so.
I also like the suggestion of not using factories for mass producing the final component. This is a VERY specialized skill we are supposed to possess. How does mass producing a final specialized product like a weapon prove we have the specialized skill? It doesn't.
Those of you who say you'd quit if that particular change is made, I say go ahead. I like the idea of being able to mass produce the components that is the most tedious portion anyway. To have to assemble the weapon personally makes the weapon yours to sell. It give the profession meaning and it allows you to play the role of weaponsmith, not vendor.
Trean
Sat Jan 29, 2005 10:24 pm
#29
dsurfman wrote:
See my earlier post on how to correct the problem. I am really starting to think this idea through more. More and more it seems like the way to go. I wish someone would give me some feedback on it. Wingedim notice that was your first post...Welcome to the club!
I did comment on your post 
. I don't want to take away from discussion on the original post, but I will offer up some more comments.
. I don't want to take away from discussion on the original post, but I will offer up some more comments.1) I don't think Master Smuggler should be required for weaponsmith or any form of smuggler should be required for weaponsmith in any such way. The problem of people not being able to sell unsliced weapons is one I have not noticed on my server. I do slice stuff and sell it, but I still make a lot more money off of selling normal weapons and normal weapons in crates. I think it may be a problem on certain servers but it also might be a problem of people selling for too much credits for an unsliced weapon where it doesn't equate to buy a ton and slice them and have more value.
2) As I stated before making final compiles by hand only will alienate a vast majority of weaponsmiths. A good amount love to hand craft stuff, but these people are not in the majority. We want to do other things, and should be able to pop runs in a factory and go off somewhere else. Hand crafting also will drive up prices, basically because time is money. This is a large change to the economy and despite the view of the minority, I think I speak for the majority in saying they will most likely either quit weaponsmith completely, or make enhanced weapons for guild/friends type of thing.
3) The NPCs buying weapons type of thing. I think 1-2cpu would probably be a decent way to implement this but once again this would be putting money into the economy and crafters are not really suppose to do that they are suppose to trade money that is already in the economy.
I think that covers it all, my viewpoint still stands the same as my large post.
samijx
Sun Jan 30, 2005 8:37 pm
#30
Tautology wrote:
samijx wrote:
If you want to lay into someone for exploiting the econimy, go find that jerk!.
Did you read my posting before or after you replied? No, I'm a psychic!
They should have an age restriction here. Agreed, go back to Barny and friends kiddo!
I´ll stay away from the discussion here now. Good!
Hurlobacca
Mon Jan 31, 2005 2:49 am
#31
1. Every profession starts off terrible at what they do and progresses as they gain experience. Can't imagine why an exception should be made for WS.
2. The grind is irrelevant. This is not some combat profession where you grind for two days or less and are on par with everyone else who wears the same title. Building good resource stocks is what you need to succeed, otherwise all you have isthe technology, not the materials, to build weapons. Gathering the resources is a much more time consuming process than gathering what you need to do the grind and it never ends. If you are unable to invest the time and energy to gather resources for the grind, how are you ever going to gather what's needed to build weapons, especially good ones?
3. There are so many ways to earn credits in this game it would be insulting to readers to list them. I sold powerups and a few resourcesand ran missions to fuel my harvesters.
4. A little patience goes a long way. I waited nearly six months after deciding to go ws to start selling weapons. That enabled me to debut with very competitive weapons, but I was poorer than poor for all of that time.
5. Don't encourage unrealistic expectations for new crafters. I have spent literally several hundred hours (ok, pathetic I know) monitoring new spawns, gathering resources/moving harvesters, scouring vendors for old resources, and otherwise working to improve my weapons. I didn't even get started until the game had been out for about 8 months. Had I cried that all the established crafters have all the good resources instead of working to build my own stocks I never would have succeeded. A lot of the "big names" at the time I got started are gone now. Now I'm a "big name" but someday I'll be gone too. Start preparing.
TapUOut
Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:25 am
#32
I think that novices should be able to make nearly as many weapons as masters but just not the quality. Any gun or knife maker can realistically make any weapons he has the specs(read schematic) for. However it is their intimate knowledge of the weapons thru experience that allows them to make a quality weapon. The same should apply here. I think also that we shouldn't worry too much about chasing away new weaponsmiths because we would then end up with an overabundance which would drive prices down and not make the profession very profitable regardless of your level of mastery.
dsurfman
Mon Jan 31, 2005 5:33 am
#33
I have learned this game is anything but close to RL. Likewise so are the crafting professions... Unless someone has something new I think this arguement may have run dry.
SeaRaptor
Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:29 am
#34
dsurfman wrote:
Unless someone has something new I think this arguement may have run dry.
It does seem that way. This is expressly why I started this thread; I wanted to get opinions and thoughts because it has been a VERY long time since I was a newb weaponsmith. I don't have any idea how difficult it would be to break into an existing weapons market on a live server, but some of you have done just that. Which is why I wanted feedback.
Mainly what I'm hearing is:
- Most people are okay with there being such a tremendous quality gap between novice and master.
- Novices can still make money while grinding if they play to the right market (WUKs, powerups, vehicles, etc.).
- Resources are and always will be the biggest barrier to entry of the weaponsmith profession.
Does that about sum it up?
samijx
Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:12 am
#35
SeaRaptor wrote:
Mainly what I'm hearing is:
- Most people are okay with there being such a tremendous quality gap between novice and master.
- Novices can still make money while grinding if they play to the right market (WUKs, powerups, vehicles, etc.).
- Resources are and always will be the biggest barrier to entry of the weaponsmith profession.
Does that about sum it up?
Absolutely right. All crafting professions produce items at master that dwarf those as lower levels, partially due toskill points, and partially due to quality of resources. Ithink the gap due to skill points is fine. If the devs want toreduce the gap by providing more resources of higher quality, that's fine by me. That might help both the economy and lower the master to novice gap a little bit.
dsurfman
Mon Jan 31, 2005 3:16 pm
#36
SeaRaptor wrote:
dsurfman wrote:
Unless someone has something new I think this arguement may have run dry.
It does seem that way. This is expressly why I started this thread; I wanted to get opinions and thoughts because it has been a VERY long time since I was a newb weaponsmith. I don't have any idea how difficult it would be to break into an existing weapons market on a live server, but some of you have done just that. Which is why I wanted feedback.
Mainly what I'm hearing is:
- Most people are okay with there being such a tremendous quality gap between novice and master.
- Novices can still make money while grinding if they play to the right market (WUKs, powerups, vehicles, etc.).
- Resources are and always will be the biggest barrier to entry of the weaponsmith profession.
Does that about sum it up?
Most definetly the biggest barrier.
Also, as a whole you have sumed it up. Again guys I think I have the idea that could be the solution. But it would need to be hammered out by more minds than mine...
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