Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Disgruntled Weaponsmith about smugglers.
darksithmage wrote:this post is so incredibly stupid. Let's say you go to best buy..and there's a game there.. people buy this game out everytime..so best buy's first instinct is oh my god we're selling out too fast and making too much money..let's get the names of the ones doing all the buying and ban them from our stores for good! I'm pretty sure you can see how stupid this sounds.
Well let me try to simplify this for you.
This is a game, not real life.
We all play this game to have fun.
Not all Weaponsmith get thair fun from crafting the weapons themselves or from making a sale.
Some weaponsmith get thair fun from having a "small circle" of repeat sale satisfied costumers.
Some one buying buying 10 weapons to get them sliced or an smuggler buying to slice and resale in not a "satisfied costumers" as the product they buy is not what they really wand.
That person buying 10 guns are removing 10 normal customers from the weaponsmith.
There is a limit to how many weapons a weaponsmith can make based on harvesters and factory production time.
Costumer satisfaction is directly linked to the price of the weapon.
A "cheep" weapon will be much more then a valued then an identical one brought at a higher price.
Raising prices will thus reduce the satisfaction of the weaponsmith.
If you don't need money. stop being a weaponsmith. There really is no point to it if profit doesn't matter.
Not all get thair fun from the same thing. Some get it form a challenging fight, some from killing another player character in PvP, some from supporting other play styles. Just because you think the most fun part of the game is hording credits in the bank, does not mean that everyone does.
Finally if you don't like customers who buy in bulk.. then send them to another weaponsmith if you despise their patronage so much.
/sarcastic Now that is a good idea, pass the grief off to someone else. Make all the other weaponsmith suffer. After all only my own fun matters.
It's not our fault as customers that smugglers can neither control how their slices go or gauge through quality of ingredients how good their slices are. When I was a commando I bought 6 flamethrowers and only ONE was sliced for speed...and of course it wore out fast putting me in the predicament of needing more weapons..not my fault..not the smugglers fault.. so if a weaponsmith wants to take it out on me because of circumstances out of my control.. then that smith is just an A-hole plain and simple.
It might not be the smugglers fault that slicing cannot be predicted, But the person buying 10 guns IS to blame. Common curtsey goes both ways, If the bulk-buyer does not consider the weaponsmith, the why does the weaponsmith have to consider the bulk-buyer?
P.S custom order my behind. every master weaponsmith I contact on starsider either doesn't respond to direct tells or emails or will tell you plainly they don't take orders over this medium. I miss the good guys like Booth...
Try asking them How to order bulk, and if they do not take bulk orders, then ask them if they know someone that does.
Also tells are a bad medium for orders as it does not stay. Emails are much better.
Daspeco wrote:Okay this is the way I see it,
First, I hate it when people scream nerf someone else. That is exactly what you are doing here. Nerf the smugglers tools? Nah, why would I, as a weaponsmith want that? Nothing they do in this hurts me, why would I want this nerfed? I don't. I really think you should think about it before you cry about it. Another person pointed out tha this is one of the few things a novice weaponsmith can make, and make money at it, the WUK.
It is the fault of the crafting system that novice weaponsmith cannot compete with master weapon smiths on low-end weapons. A master with 500 is resources can make a low-end weapon way better then a novice with perfect weapons.
Secondly, as many have pointed out, why are you crying about people buying your weapons? Poeple know they are taking chances with the slice. Nothing wrong with them buying more to get exactly what they want.
What is wrong with this is that every time one customer buys 10 weapons instead of one, 9 disapointed customers will leave the shop with out a weapon.
If this is a problem to you, become a smuggler as well and slice your own weapons and sell them that way.
I am personally going for master artisan, master weaponsmith, and master merchant. There is no room for smuggler in there.
How about giving weaponsmiths the option to make weapons un sliceable, that would solve the problem.
Tarnak,
First, I understand it is the fault of the system that novice cannot compete with masters. I would not even call it a fault, it is that way and that is good. The novice does need to be able to make some credits tho to fund his/her quest for master.
Second, I agree that 9 customers would walk away disappointed that the vendor was empty.
Third, You have no room for smuggler, well, that is another fact of life. You have chosen your route for where you are using your skill points.
Fourth, make a weapon unslice-able.. lol.. Well, you may have customers that may accept that, but noone I know would buy a weapon that couldn't be sliced.
The randomness of the smuggler slice is the same for them as the randomness we get with expiramentation.
The biggest part of this I agree with is that customers walk away with unhappy because of the empty vendor.
I am not a smuggler, nor do I want to be one. But don't ask for nerfs for something that doesn't hurt the weaponsmith. You may instead, offer some weapons that are already sliced. This will allow the buyers to buy one that has what they are looking for and leave the other 9 for other customers. IE, a rifle sliced for speed is more appealing to the dabbler or novice of rifleman, while a damage sliced weapon is more appealing to the higher end and master level rifleman.
I do respectfully think you have a right to your opinion. My biggest complaint is for anyone that cries nerf. It is obvious, for many of us, that the developers have not yet learned to look at things farther into the future than the next patch. Until they do this, and get a good "big picture" of where and what they want this game to develope into, all nerfs need to stop. Otherwise, there will constant over compensations and the game never will "balance."
XXXIceman wrote:How can you get players, most of which you've never even seen before, to go to the trouble to Mail you with their bulk orders, rather than buying out your vendors?
---snip---If his only incentive to perhaps wait a few hours, or a day, is to keep from pissing you off then good luck... (Meaning, your regulars will know your 'Mail' policy on bulk orders, whereas newcomers might not have a clue.. and why would someone you don't know care about making your life easier?) Well, give them a reason to be patient. If you don't give them any incentive to comply with your wishes, then don't expect them to, especially the players who never knew you existed prior to stumbling into your shop with a train of red cons on their tail...
You know that is the answer in it self, players reason to "go to the trouble" of making an order by email should be to avoid make the "life" of the weaponsmith easier.
If that player do not care about the weaponsmith then why should the weaponsmith care about the player? Banning him and warning other weapon smith about him might make him learn.
Why is it that people think, that just because this is a game, things like common courtesy, manners, and common sense are not needed?
Having a relation ship with my customers as the one you describe would be ideal. However, unless they start to become repeat customers, it will be hard to cultivate that relationship. Moreover, how can they become repeat customers if my vendor is always out of stock because someone had to have the perfect slice?
Why should the weaponsmith who can obviously (according to this topic) get more business that they need, have to go out of thair way to please that one customer? The bulk-buyer need the weaponsmith more then the weapon smith need the bulk buyer.
Yesterday some poor soul bought 6 T21's from the same vendor and he got sub 20% slices on every single one of them, I know it wasnt in my control and so did he... what does he do? Does he live with a 16% damage slice? Would you?
Look... this guy is willing to spend 250k on the same gun to get the slice he wants and in the process he is lining the pockets of the weaponsmith and yet you complain about it. /rolleyes
There is no crime in wanting the best of the best if you have the money...
I suggest you stop throwing your toys out of the pram and get on with having fun, you clearly took weaponsmith because it appealed to you over other professions and yet when you have to practice your art you make it sound like a chore... maybe you should try master image designer.
Daspeco wrote:Tarnak,
First, I understand it is the fault of the system that novice cannot compete with masters. I would not even call it a fault, it is that way and that is good. The novice does need to be able to make some credits tho to fund his/her quest for master.
It is a design fault that a novice can not compete with a master on low end weapons. Take a real life example... Almost anyone can draw a stick figure of a man/woman to mark some toilet doors, but even if the person was a master painter like Michelangelo thoughts two stick figures would not become more functional. On the other hand, almost know one would be able to paint the 16th chapel!
But I am getting side tracked...
Third, You have no room for smuggler, well, that is another fact of life. You have chosen your route for where you are using your skill points.
So because I can not fit smuggler in to my template (not that I would even if I could), I am forced to, endure smugglers emptying my vendor?
Fourth, make a weapon unslice-able.. lol.. Well, you may have customers that may accept that, but noone I know would buy a weapon that couldn't be sliced.
If everyone uses sliced weapons only then, why does not everyone buys weapons 10 at the time?
Some one obviously does not get thair weapons sliced, or is happy with whatever slice they get.
The randomness of the smuggler slice is the same for them as the randomness we get with expiramentation.
The biggest part of this I agree with is that customers walk away with unhappy because of the empty vendor.
I am not a smuggler, nor do I want to be one. But don't ask for nerfs for something that doesn't hurt the weaponsmith. You may instead, offer some weapons that are already sliced. This will allow the buyers to buy one that has what they are looking for and leave the other 9 for other customers. IE, a rifle sliced for speed is more appealing to the dabbler or novice of rifleman, while a damage sliced weapon is more appealing to the higher end and master level rifleman.
When I cannot slice my self, then how can I offer sliced weapons to my customers? Yes, I know that I could contact a smuggler and set up an arrangement for him to slice weapons for me. However, that seams an awful lot of trouble to go throe for a customer that do not care about me.
I do respectfully think you have a right to your opinion. My biggest complaint is for anyone that cries nerf. It is obvious, for many of us, that the developers have not yet learned to look at things farther into the future than the next patch. Until they do this, and get a good "big picture" of where and what they want this game to develope into, all nerfs need to stop. Otherwise, there will constant over compensations and the game never will "balance."
>
I generally do not diss the devs, they have a difficult job. But you are right that they to often over compensate.
However if something is not working then letting it go on, just because it might become worse. Nerfs are an necessary evil, but I think that that most of the time improves the over all picture, at least for some time.
LLJK_Griz wrote:
darksithmage wrote:
this post is so incredibly stupid. Let's say you go to best buy..and there's a game there.. people buy this game out everytime..so best buy's first instinct is oh my god we're selling out too fast and making too much money..let's get the names of the ones doing all the buying and ban them from our stores for good! bla bla unreadable babble with no paragraph breaks
This analogy makes no sense because Best Buy doesn't have problems with a few people buying 20+ items each, leaving none for the 50+ others who just want one item.
And I'm sure you've all noticed that when many stores have big sales and think they might sell out of a particular item the put a limit on what you can buy. Isee grocery stores do that quite often. So, darksithmages Best Buy analogy is "so incredibly stupid".
Side note:
I'm sure many disagree with me and I'll most likely get flamed but.... I think slicing has gotten a bit out of control. Everything doesn't need a slice. I personally refuse to get a weapon sliced. If you think about it you are damaging your weapon (thus the rapid degrading). Yes it is "better" in the short run, but you won't have that nift weapon around long. As a smith I would never do something to damage my work in such a way.....hmm maybe that's just a bit of RPing; don't know but it just feels wrong like....laminating a priceless work of art. (I know, poor analogy but that was all I could think of and I'm sure you get my drift)
I think there's a lot of non-weaponsmiths here that are missing the point. This is not real life. This is not Best Buy. Making weapons is not something I do to support a family, put food on the table or a roofover my head. This is a game and as such it's supposed to be fun. For most us, the fun of weaponsmithing comes from distributing our weapons to the largest number of players as possible. For most of us, weaponsmithing is about ego. Yes, it's a little sad but it's more than a little true. We want the notoriety that comes from making highly efficient killing machines for the masses. Your money is meaningless to us. The reason this issue is such a hot topic is because when someone walks in and loots a vendor of a particular item they have essentially denied my services to many other players and even worse, they've taken something even more valuable from me:Time. How is this possible you ask? I'll explain with an example. I can't stand idly by knowing that my vendors are standing in the cold with no Laser Rifles to sell so instead of doing whatever else I had planned to do that day, I have to manufacture more Laser Rifles. This is unexpected. I hadn't planned on needing more Laser Rifles for at least week but thanks to the vendor looter I have to spend time making more Laser Rifles.
There's a fine line between fun and work when you're a high volume crafter. Vendor looting pi$$es me off something fierce because my game time is limited and thus very valuable to me. Those of you defending the tactic can argue until you're blue in the face but the fact is, if the seller doesn't want the practice to take place, they have every right to take whatever action is necessary to keep it from happening in the future.
I have to support my partner Myrrax in this. On our last run, I spent 8 -12 hours a day for 4 days mass producing weapons. Guess what, they are mostly sold out. Ive raised prices 400%, and they still sell out.
Slicing prob, has singlehandly burnt out more weaponsmiths then anything else. Slicing should be as challenging as any other elite crafting proff.
This is not a question of credits anymore. This is a serious problem the deves need to consider as its driving many, weaponsmiths out of buisness or burning them out.
The only thing I can think of as a temp. solution is to limit the amount of guns available and charge allot more per gun. We have to offer enough weapons for the 1000's of customers we get each week , so I have raised prices.
Nyn Nyx -Master Weaponsmith
Corporate Sector Authority
Herms wrote:Yesterday some poor soul bought 6 T21's from the same vendor and he got sub 20% slices on every single one of them, I know it wasnt in my control and so did he... what does he do? Does he live with a 16% damage slice? Would you?
Yes Iwould. With old character I did quite a bit of PvE fighting, and I did not even use a sliced gun. I only ever had one gun sliced, and that was a scout I got speed sliced early on because no affordable weapons was available.
Later on when I had more credit, I bought better guns (unsliced and none krayt), and always one at the time. I really do not think that sliced guns are necessary for anything but soloing high end commence. But that is not the point.
Look... this guy is willing to spend 250k on the same gun to get the slice he wants and in the process he is lining the pockets of the weaponsmith and yet you complain about it. /rolleyes
If my goal in this game is not to have millions of credit in my bank account then why should I be happy for someone lining my pockets?
There is no crime in wanting the best of the best if you have the money...
I suggest you stop throwing your toys out of the pram and get on with having fun, you clearly took weaponsmith because it appealed to you over other professions and yet when you have to practice your art you make it sound like a chore... maybe you should try master image designer.
Well I am not good at making characters look life like, so ID in not for me
I even gave a ID I know free hands to make my character look more like his IC sister (played by another player)I choose weaponsmith because I liked the complexity of the profession, not because I wanted to become rich. What I wand to do is run a weapons shop where my customers can come a get the weapons they need at a fair price. Someone buying all my weapons will ruin that for me. Telling me that I do not have right to do so, that I am A-hole for wanting it that way, or that I should find another profession
If I could get whatever resources I needed, whenever I needed them, then I would not mind this at all. I could just go out and buy new materials for the credit I got from the sale. However, I cannot do that. Resources are limited, and sometimes they are even totally unavailable.
If I can only get enough material for, say 200, of a weapon then selling them 5 or 10 at the time is not an option, not if they have to last for 3 months.
Everyone should remember this is not a real world free marked economy where money rains supreme. This is a game in witch we use our leisure time, and thus normal market economics does not matter.
It's a vendor issue, not a weaponsmith or smuggler issue. The solution is to have the ability to limit the number of purchases your customers can make so they can't clean you out. Like when you go to the grocery store and see a case of soda on sale, there is usually a limit on how many you can buy.
If you want to be able to limit the purchases of your customers, it's an option that needs to be added to your vendor. Post about it in the merchant forum, maybe it will be implemented one day. There is no real solution to the problem otherwise, unless you work harder to stock your vendor (not always possible) or raise your prices (not always desirable).
Jamga
As a master smugger, i can tell you that I would LOVE to have tool quality effect the output of a slice. Nothing is worse than to get a low slice on a krayt weapon, or suit of composite armor.
However, smugglers are customers too. If your weapons are getting bought out, send an e-mail to the person buying the 10 scout blastersin a shot. Offer the sell thema crate. You would be suprised how many goodbusiness relationships you can form.
I ran in to thi sproblem early on (was one of the first 5 MWS on furry). My solution was that I set a limit on how many same type weapons one person can buy in 24 hours. We were having a hell of a time with resellers and people wanting "uber slices"....I got tired of my regular customers complaining about coming to the shop and the stock being so low. So I institued a 4 weapon rule...to me it was never about the money it was about customer service...why should the guy who bought 20 fw's be happy when the 20 people looking for an fw can't get one now?
So yes, I ban people for bulk buying, and I ban people for reselling my weapons in thier shops without my permission. I am not a wholsaler, I am not some multi chain conglomerate. I make great guns at a fair price, I have a sliced weapon vendor, if you can't find something you like, feel free to buy 4 and roll the dice yourself, go over that and expect an email, abuse it and expect to find the red forcewall waiting for you the next tiem you come to the shop.