Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: I knew that was coming....
Cafa wrote:
Ecnirp wrote:
Cafa wrote:
I'v yet to see that screaming thread forcing the devs to return resource experimentation back to the way it was before you Weaponsmiths got a range modifier for experimentation. You know, to make it more challenging!
Ah, that's right, only those things that threaten your island.
Fivo Asia
I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play. I think most other WS would welcome any change that would give us more of a challenge as well. We have been simplified enough.
I don't see what your issue is. You are still giving buffs that pretty much every crafter will need to keep up with competition. Seems your not happy because we have not been turning into another completely generic crafting profession.
Everytime I see your signature spout 12pt Weaponsmith I marvel at the above paragraphs. If you really believe that sentence, "I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play." why do I not see "10pt Weaponsmith and proud of it!" in your signature.
Again, the resource experimentation changes only helped weaponsmith and armorsmith because of the manner that resources were capped before. I've seen no outrage from this profession berating the devs to change that back. But something comes along that would enhance entertainers and help other crafting professions (so maybe BE's wouldn't need perfect meats to make sales, etc.) and you guys step right up to the plate to be nerfherders.
If you're so darn adamant let's see those posts getting the devs to change experimentation back! Let's see you destorying your weaponsmith experimentation suits!
Fivo Asia
lol you really do have issues don't you?
I am a 12pt because I want to be the best at what I do. If I could do that with 10pts I would lol.
When I first started WS my challenge was to become a 12pt'er - which I did. then my chellenge was to slowly build up enough resources so I could make every type of weapon which I did. Then it was to be able to make a good version of every type of weapon which I can.
My lastchallenge left in WS is to constantly try to improve what I make, a little more damage here, less SAC there etc. Thats what keeps me going. I didn't want that last challenge taken away and I am guessing I speak for pretty much every other WS out there.
Ecnirp wrote:
Cafa wrote:
Ecnirp wrote:
Cafa wrote:
I'v yet to see that screaming thread forcing the devs to return resource experimentation back to the way it was before you Weaponsmiths got a range modifier for experimentation. You know, to make it more challenging!
Ah, that's right, only those things that threaten your island.
Fivo Asia
I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play. I think most other WS would welcome any change that would give us more of a challenge as well. We have been simplified enough.
I don't see what your issue is. You are still giving buffs that pretty much every crafter will need to keep up with competition. Seems your not happy because we have not been turning into another completely generic crafting profession.
Everytime I see your signature spout 12pt Weaponsmith I marvel at the above paragraphs. If you really believe that sentence, "I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play." why do I not see "10pt Weaponsmith and proud of it!" in your signature.
Again, the resource experimentation changes only helped weaponsmith and armorsmith because of the manner that resources were capped before. I've seen no outrage from this profession berating the devs to change that back. But something comes along that would enhance entertainers and help other crafting professions (so maybe BE's wouldn't need perfect meats to make sales, etc.) and you guys step right up to the plate to be nerfherders.
If you're so darn adamant let's see those posts getting the devs to change experimentation back! Let's see you destorying your weaponsmith experimentation suits!
Fivo Asia
lol you really do have issues don't you?
I am a 12pt because I want to be the best at what I do. If I could do that with 10pts I would lol.
When I first started WS my challenge was to become a 12pt'er - which I did. then my chellenge was to slowly build up enough resources so I could make every type of weapon which I did. Then it was to be able to make a good version of every type of weapon which I can.
My lastchallenge left in WS is to constantly try to improve what I make, a little more damage here, less SAC there etc. Thats what keeps me going. I didn't want that last challenge taken away and I am guessing I speak for pretty much every other WS out there.
Message Edited by Cafa on 08-26-2005 09:46 AM
Cafa wrote:
Ecnirp wrote:
Cafa wrote:
Ecnirp wrote:
Cafa wrote:
I'v yet to see that screaming thread forcing the devs to return resource experimentation back to the way it was before you Weaponsmiths got a range modifier for experimentation. You know, to make it more challenging!
Ah, that's right, only those things that threaten your island.
Fivo Asia
I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play. I think most other WS would welcome any change that would give us more of a challenge as well. We have been simplified enough.
I don't see what your issue is. You are still giving buffs that pretty much every crafter will need to keep up with competition. Seems your not happy because we have not been turning into another completely generic crafting profession.
Everytime I see your signature spout 12pt Weaponsmith I marvel at the above paragraphs. If you really believe that sentence, "I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play." why do I not see "10pt Weaponsmith and proud of it!" in your signature.
Again, the resource experimentation changes only helped weaponsmith and armorsmith because of the manner that resources were capped before. I've seen no outrage from this profession berating the devs to change that back. But something comes along that would enhance entertainers and help other crafting professions (so maybe BE's wouldn't need perfect meats to make sales, etc.) and you guys step right up to the plate to be nerfherders.
If you're so darn adamant let's see those posts getting the devs to change experimentation back! Let's see you destorying your weaponsmith experimentation suits!
Fivo Asia
lol you really do have issues don't you?
I am a 12pt because I want to be the best at what I do. If I could do that with 10pts I would lol.
When I first started WS my challenge was to become a 12pt'er - which I did. then my chellenge was to slowly build up enough resources so I could make every type of weapon which I did. Then it was to be able to make a good version of every type of weapon which I can.
My lastchallenge left in WS is to constantly try to improve what I make, a little more damage here, less SAC there etc. Thats what keeps me going. I didn't want that last challenge taken away and I am guessing I speak for pretty much every other WS out there.
Hmm... "I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play."
Guess not.
Either follow through with your convictions or do not. Stop making excuses as to which challenge you will accept.
Message Edited by Cafa on 08-26-2005 09:46 AM
/bangs head on wall
Ok could you point me in the direction of anything that I have said that contradicts my statement "I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play."
Since all that is left for me to do it improve on my resources - that is my challenge. I would embrace with open arms any other challenge that the Devs decide to throw our way.
Cafa wrote:
Ecnirp wrote:
Cafa wrote:
I'v yet to see that screaming thread forcing the devs to return resource experimentation back to the way it was before you Weaponsmiths got a range modifier for experimentation. You know, to make it more challenging!
Ah, that's right, only those things that threaten your island.
Fivo Asia
I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play. I think most other WS would welcome any change that would give us more of a challenge as well. We have been simplified enough.
I don't see what your issue is. You are still giving buffs that pretty much every crafter will need to keep up with competition. Seems your not happy because we have not been turning into another completely generic crafting profession.
Everytime I see your signature spout 12pt Weaponsmith I marvel at the above paragraphs. If you really believe that sentence, "I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play." why do I not see "10pt Weaponsmith and proud of it!" in your signature.
Again, the resource experimentation changes only helped weaponsmith and armorsmith because of the manner that resources were capped before. I've seen no outrage from this profession berating the devs to change that back. But something comes along that would enhance entertainers and help other crafting professions (so maybe BE's wouldn't need perfect meats to make sales, etc.) and you guys step right up to the plate to be nerfherders.
If you're so darn adamant let's see those posts getting the devs to change experimentation back! Let's see you destorying your weaponsmith experimentation suits!
Fivo Asia
edit... Meh, why am I bothering, your claim in another thread that this 10% buff would have 'helped all crafters' shows that you have no real grasp of the major, potentially game-breaking, issues it would have raised for alot of people.
Message Edited by Muzz on 08-26-2005 06:05 PM
Muzz wrote:
Cafa wrote:
Ecnirp wrote:
Cafa wrote:
I'v yet to see that screaming thread forcing the devs to return resource experimentation back to the way it was before you Weaponsmiths got a range modifier for experimentation. You know, to make it more challenging!
Ah, that's right, only those things that threaten your island.
Fivo Asia
I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play. I think most other WS would welcome any change that would give us more of a challenge as well. We have been simplified enough.
I don't see what your issue is. You are still giving buffs that pretty much every crafter will need to keep up with competition. Seems your not happy because we have not been turning into another completely generic crafting profession.
Everytime I see your signature spout 12pt Weaponsmith I marvel at the above paragraphs. If you really believe that sentence, "I would welcome any change that made WS more challenging - it would give me more reason to play." why do I not see "10pt Weaponsmith and proud of it!" in your signature.
Again, the resource experimentation changes only helped weaponsmith and armorsmith because of the manner that resources were capped before. I've seen no outrage from this profession berating the devs to change that back. But something comes along that would enhance entertainers and help other crafting professions (so maybe BE's wouldn't need perfect meats to make sales, etc.) and you guys step right up to the plate to be nerfherders.
If you're so darn adamant let's see those posts getting the devs to change experimentation back! Let's see you destorying your weaponsmith experimentation suits!
Fivo Asia
edit... Meh, why am I bothering, your claim in another thread that this 10% buff would have 'helped all crafters' shows that you have no real grasp of the major, potentially game-breaking, issues it would have raised for alot of people.
Message Edited by Muzz on 08-26-2005 06:05 PM
If WS/AS didn't have the resource experimentation change love previous, you might be wishing for this too. Unfortunately, no one else was relevant to that change but those two professions.
There is no game-breaking event if all you want is a challenge. Real simple, delete your SEAs. Stop advocating nerfs as your answer to competition.
Fivo Asia
If the previous resource change was not relevant to any other profession, it couldn't have had an adverse effect on anyone. This change would have done. Yeah, but that doesn't matter for selfish entertainers does it?
Youstill havethe buff yet you're still picking a fight.
Muzz wrote:
If the previous resource change was not relevant to any other profession, it couldn't have had an adverse effect on anyone. This change would have done. Yeah, but that doesn't matter for selfish entertainers does it?
Youstill havethe buff yet you're still picking a fight.
Can you read at all? I'm one of the most varied crafters on Tempest for the past two years, my entertainer is just used for fun.
So, now that you and yours have gleaned your nerf, when shall we expect the cries to return experimentation back to where your resources are crappy again? Yeah....
Cafa wrote:
Muzz wrote:
If the previous resource change was not relevant to any other profession, it couldn't have had an adverse effect on anyone. This change would have done. Yeah, but that doesn't matter for selfish entertainers does it?
Youstill havethe buff yet you're still picking a fight.
Can you read at all? I'm one of the most varied crafters on Tempest for the past two years, my entertainer is just used for fun.
So, now that you and yours have gleaned your nerf, when shall we expect the cries to return experimentation back to where your resources are crappy again? Yeah....
I can read thank you, but crucially I can also comprehend negative effects changes might have, even ones that don't affect any of my chosen professions. That's obviously something you have trouble with.
Now, why don't you go and start a petition or something if the changes in resource gate calculations are such a bugbear for you, which it obviously is as it happened four months ago.
Muzz wrote:
Cafa wrote:
Muzz wrote:
If the previous resource change was not relevant to any other profession, it couldn't have had an adverse effect on anyone. This change would have done. Yeah, but that doesn't matter for selfish entertainers does it?
Youstill havethe buff yet you're still picking a fight.
Can you read at all? I'm one of the most varied crafters on Tempest for the past two years, my entertainer is just used for fun.
So, now that you and yours have gleaned your nerf, when shall we expect the cries to return experimentation back to where your resources are crappy again? Yeah....
I can read thank you, but crucially I can also comprehend negative effects changes might have, even ones that don't affect any of my chosen professions. That's obviously something you have trouble with.
Now, why don't you go and start a petition or something if the changes in resource gate calculations are such a bugbear for you, which it obviously is as it happened four months ago.
No, you see, here's the difference between us. I advocate the previous changes, and I advocate improvements now to provide a bonus for the ridiculous ratio of crap resources the system puts out now. The resouce buff at 10% would have brought more competition onto the field.
Fivo Asia
Cafa wrote:
Muzz wrote:
If the previous resource change was not relevant to any other profession, it couldn't have had an adverse effect on anyone. This change would have done. Yeah, but that doesn't matter for selfish entertainers does it?
Youstill havethe buff yet you're still picking a fight.
Can you read at all? I'm one of the most varied crafters on Tempest for the past two years, my entertainer is just used for fun.
So, now that you and yours have gleaned your nerf, when shall we expect the cries to return experimentation back to where your resources are crappy again? Yeah....
So your a crafter. Well sorry then your not very smart crafter. The new resource quality calculations compared to the old ones make no difference at all. Well a very small one some older resources that used to be the best are no longer the best. Especially for irons since they have low CD.
Before the CU the stats where all 1000. We couldn't max every weapon and well i was very happy with that. The so called bad resources like iron with low cd would made sure a weapon didn't get to max damage without loot enhancements. Now when the devs made this systemthere was a balance. But this was all before uber buffs etc you can say it was a bad balance. Good till the uber buffs came since ham costs didn't made a difference then.
Now the cu came and they balanced all the weapons by making caps on them. You can say that Weapon X with cl 40 has a max-damage range of 0-500(never had a crit failure on damage so don't know 100% sure that it goes to 0 dmg then(speed/wound does do that) So if you have resources used and your base assembly is 28% the system says oke you start with250 dmg. Then you can experiment up to 100% max if you have perfect resources. You won't hit the cap on a lot of weapons even with perfect resources you will get 100% but that's not the sac/dmg/speed cap.
So there was a balance pre-cu and there is a balance post-cu. Tell me what's the difference changing back the experimentation system. Besides that i can use my old irons that used to be the best in the old system and they are no longer the best now. And don't say with the old system you didn't get to 100%. That's not the issue it doesn't mather there was a "balance" in them and the devs used those "bad" resources to make sure a weapon didn't go to high.
Maceey wrote:
Cafa wrote:
Muzz wrote:
If the previous resource change was not relevant to any other profession, it couldn't have had an adverse effect on anyone. This change would have done. Yeah, but that doesn't matter for selfish entertainers does it?
Youstill havethe buff yet you're still picking a fight.
Can you read at all? I'm one of the most varied crafters on Tempest for the past two years, my entertainer is just used for fun.
So, now that you and yours have gleaned your nerf, when shall we expect the cries to return experimentation back to where your resources are crappy again? Yeah....
So your a crafter. Well sorry then your not very smart crafter. The new resource quality calculations compared to the old ones make no difference at all. Well a very small one some older resources that used to be the best are no longer the best. Especially for irons since they have low CD.
Before the CU the stats where all 1000. We couldn't max every weapon and well i was very happy with that. The so called bad resources like iron with low cd would made sure a weapon didn't get to max damage without loot enhancements. Now when the devs made this systemthere was a balance. But this was all before uber buffs etc you can say it was a bad balance. Good till the uber buffs came since ham costs didn't made a difference then.
Now the cu came and they balanced all the weapons by making caps on them. You can say that Weapon X with cl 40 has a max-damage range of 0-500(never had a crit failure on damage so don't know 100% sure that it goes to 0 dmg then(speed/wound does do that) So if you have resources used and your base assembly is 28% the system says oke you start with250 dmg. Then you can experiment up to 100% max if you have perfect resources. You won't hit the cap on a lot of weapons even with perfect resources you will get 100% but that's not the sac/dmg/speed cap.
So there was a balance pre-cu and there is a balance post-cu. Tell me what's the difference changing back the experimentation system. Besides that i can use my old irons that used to be the best in the old system and they are no longer the best now. And don't say with the old system you didn't get to 100%. That's not the issue it doesn't mather there was a "balance" in them and the devs used those "bad" resources to make sure a weapon didn't go to high.
Cafa wrote:
Maceey wrote:
Cafa wrote:
Muzz wrote:
If the previous resource change was not relevant to any other profession, it couldn't have had an adverse effect on anyone. This change would have done. Yeah, but that doesn't matter for selfish entertainers does it?
Youstill havethe buff yet you're still picking a fight.
Can you read at all? I'm one of the most varied crafters on Tempest for the past two years, my entertainer is just used for fun.
So, now that you and yours have gleaned your nerf, when shall we expect the cries to return experimentation back to where your resources are crappy again? Yeah....
So your a crafter. Well sorry then your not very smart crafter. The new resource quality calculations compared to the old ones make no difference at all. Well a very small one some older resources that used to be the best are no longer the best. Especially for irons since they have low CD.
Before the CU the stats where all 1000. We couldn't max every weapon and well i was very happy with that. The so called bad resources like iron with low cd would made sure a weapon didn't get to max damage without loot enhancements. Now when the devs made this systemthere was a balance. But this was all before uber buffs etc you can say it was a bad balance. Good till the uber buffs came since ham costs didn't made a difference then.
Now the cu came and they balanced all the weapons by making caps on them. You can say that Weapon X with cl 40 has a max-damage range of 0-500(never had a crit failure on damage so don't know 100% sure that it goes to 0 dmg then(speed/wound does do that) So if you have resources used and your base assembly is 28% the system says oke you start with250 dmg. Then you can experiment up to 100% max if you have perfect resources. You won't hit the cap on a lot of weapons even with perfect resources you will get 100% but that's not the sac/dmg/speed cap.
So there was a balance pre-cu and there is a balance post-cu. Tell me what's the difference changing back the experimentation system. Besides that i can use my old irons that used to be the best in the old system and they are no longer the best now. And don't say with the old system you didn't get to 100%. That's not the issue it doesn't mather there was a "balance" in them and the devs used those "bad" resources to make sure a weapon didn't go to high.
I just seriously wonder if you even read what you typed...? The experimentation changes previously meant nothing?
okies.
lag
/trades a melon
Oke since my post isn't good enough let me quote hurlobacca from the other thread:
[Hurlobacca
For someone who claims to know so much about WS you sure seem clueless about this aspect of crafting. First of all, the old resource valuation system was in place pre-CU, the new system came into being with the CU. For that reason, it's erroneous to call the change in resource valuation an upgrade since you have no way to compare pre and post CU weapons since the weapons stats are completely different.
What you are failing to realize is it's irrelevant whether a plumbum iron that's 120/1000 (approximate max)is valued at 55% (old)or 100% (new). Both represent the best this resource is capable of achieving so in essence it's the same either way. Take the T-21 for example. Under the old system, if you made one using maxed out resources on everything I think you'd get about 420 max or so. The same holds true with post CU weapons that if you use perfect resources, you will hit a certain number beyond which you cannot go without the use of enhancements. The quality of the weapons we are capable of producing relative to the best that can possibly made has remained virtually unchanged despite the change in the way resources are valued because the relationship of our resources to the caps for those resources has also remained virtually unchanged.
When the damage formulas are created by the devsthat determine outcome based on resource quality, you can be sure theyknow what they want the max dmg for certain weapons to be based on how it would turn out with perfect resources. That's why I always found it so funny when people complained about the quality of plumbum or rhodium,etc. If the devs had left all resources with 1000 max stats, it wouldn't have changed the outcome of your crafting efforts. They simply would have adjusted the fomula that determines the crafting outcome.
Personally I preferred the old method for determining resource values as it was simpler to compute and you didn't need to know anything about resource caps to make your calculation.