Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: The ADK Discussion
Ulrek_Oden
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:28 am
#27
I am not a weaponsmith but I am a customer.
I think to fully understand the problem that ADKs present to the community one would have to know exactly the scope of the problem.
Is it possible to find out how many weapons are ADKed per server? Is that even possible?
I think change the status of current ADKs would not be fair at all... yes I do have several items ADKed, 7 to be exact, so I am biased.
But lets look at the 'biolink the adk' discussion. Well... once I make jedi... and cant use my weapon or armor that is adked... what do I do with this now biolinked material?
The 'reduce decay' it not necessarily a bad move but again what impact will it have on the weaponsmiths? That is not known.
I would rather think fixing, enhancing, the WS profession is the way to go. Perhaps make a line of weapons that have great stats that CANNOT be adked....
I would rather see this fixed by SOE by adding something to the mix rather than taking something away...
I think to fully understand the problem that ADKs present to the community one would have to know exactly the scope of the problem.
Is it possible to find out how many weapons are ADKed per server? Is that even possible?
I think change the status of current ADKs would not be fair at all... yes I do have several items ADKed, 7 to be exact, so I am biased.
But lets look at the 'biolink the adk' discussion. Well... once I make jedi... and cant use my weapon or armor that is adked... what do I do with this now biolinked material?
The 'reduce decay' it not necessarily a bad move but again what impact will it have on the weaponsmiths? That is not known.
I would rather think fixing, enhancing, the WS profession is the way to go. Perhaps make a line of weapons that have great stats that CANNOT be adked....
I would rather see this fixed by SOE by adding something to the mix rather than taking something away...
Luzenit
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:30 am
#28
ADKs are a contributing component to what ails the weapons crafting profression, but it certainly not absolute cause to our woes. Maybe we should have a focus thread addressing all factors that have negatively impacted the weapons profession and constructive ideas to pass along to the devs on remedying the situation.
Problems -
1.) The CU - This is the biggest reason for the difficulties we have at present. As soon as a player hits master level, there are only one or two desirable (capped) weapons needed. Most weapons we are able to craft are now unsellable for the most part. Even without an ADK, a player needs the same weapon(s) over and over again. The CU removed thed the need for owning various weapons that had primary elemental damages such as Heat, Cold, Stun, Blast, etc. Weapons are now Kinetic and energy - - - and a player only needs a favorite or two to take care of his/her PvE & PvP needs. Before the CU, and even after the introduction of ADKs, business was good. There was always a demand for different weapons AND there was always a chance a better weapon could be crafted. Many of my regular clients are now Jedi (as a majority of players are) and no longer need my goods or services. I am sure there are many Jedi alts that are crafters, but it I am not sure of the impact on the economy that has.
2.) Looted Weapons are Better - Sadly, looted weapons are oftenbetter than the craftables. A player can easily replace a lootable weapon when needed - from Nym slug throwers to the killer weapons found on Kesh. It appears that the new expansion will be offering even more looted weapons that surpasss anything we can make. Granted, power cells and reinforced casings allow some nice weapons to be made, but our basic weapons do not compete. Even slicing is not allowed to go over hard caps to make crafted goods more desirable.
3.) ADKs - A weapon will or piece of armor will never die with an ADK appled, but how much of an impact is this really compared to the above listed concerns? There are players that have bought multiple ADKs for armor and weapon(s), but that also means that there are that many players that no longer have the (limit 1 ADK/account). There are far more players that no longer have an ADK at their disposal and wish they hadit back! They are a rare commodity going for over 20 million credits on my server. The cost alone excludes many players from ever getting an ADK (unless they are able to receive it as a reward). There are not that many ADK'ed weapons for sale or trade. on my server as it is. It is too easy (and to go get a better weapon and re ADK than finding a buyer for the
Rinviero
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:44 am
#29
Ulrek_Oden wrote:
But lets look at the 'biolink the adk' discussion. Well... once I make jedi... and cant use my weapon or armor that is adked... what do I do with this now biolinked material?
You delete the weapons and armor to get the ADK's back
EVILxWARLOCK
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:47 am
#30
There is a simple way to solve this. Insted of the npc droping or rewarding a weapon, armor or anything like that, they drop the schematic for it. Do it like they did the geo pistols and stuff. Then the person would have to go to a crafter to have it made.
Camelz
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:52 am
#31
You need to survey combat profs with the questions:
Would you pay 5 mil credits +for a FWG5 if you couldnt ADK it?
How much would you be prepared to pay for a weapon that you couldnt ADK ?
Would you still look for triple capped (or as close as possible) weapons if they had a limited lifespan?
What would you be prepared to pay for such a weapon in such circumstances?
Yes I possess an ADK (only the 1). The only reason I was prepared to pay so much for a weapon recently was because I had that ADK sat in the bank. Apart from Jedi, I would saymost combat toons carry a number of weapons with only one or at most a couple of weapons being ADKed.
I really think you guys are a mile off. Dont you think that the fact that the majority of players now have no need whatsoever for either WS or AS has had more impact on your business than the ADK? All the crafting alts will say no of course, or will say that we only need 1 ADK to every 2 toons (to protect those pearls).
/sigh
Like there havent been enough nerfs already.
If you guys could craft lightsabres this thread would never have started.
Narut0
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:54 am
#32
Muzz wrote:
First!! now i'll edit and expand on my thoughts...
I'd like to see them reduce decay and not eliminate it. The % of decay reduction is not really an issue at the moment, although it will obviously have to be a high reduction for them to keep their value and not cause an outcry amongst the players who have spent alot of money of them.
They are called Anti-Decay, not No-Decay. Prolonging the lifespan of an item, while not making it everlasting, would still be a huge benefit to the players spending money on them, while also meaning that weapons, and indeed armour loaded up with high-level SEAs, are not 'buy once, use forever' items.
Maybe they can also make the item used on non-repairable, but the ADKs will of course still be retrievable once the item has worn out.
Message Edited by Muzz on 10-16-2005 10:18 PM
Message Edited by Muzz on 10-16-2005 10:19 PM
sweety, im a customer of yours, you make uber weapons n i had to destroy many i bought just to get a new one just that little more powerfull.
i guess now i don't need um cos my combat is jedi now. but ADk removeing decay is the only way jedi can afford to play atm. no 100% chance of a good tune ect. you still make the moneh orgama, almost as much as +++Delux+++ industrys i would guess (they hike prices)
i still come buy naboo to buy LS kits hopein for a new resorce that can make my saber just 1% better.
repeat custom is not compleatly removed however its hard to keep them comming back if the items are still usefull and tailors know this more then anyone else.
Narut0
Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:56 am
#33
emovamalla wrote:
Well, they are not forced to claim ADK's specifically. There are holograms and other items to pick from at all the 1 year + marks
Muzz wrote:
emovamalla wrote:
If ADK's were bio-linked to the veteran reward player, then the need for consumables would remain in large for AS and WS professions alike.
And what would crafters / entertainers do with them?Otherwise, nice post.
atm an entertaner can make a fast and vast amount of instant cash by selling them,
mort666
Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:01 am
#34
I think the ADK is being used as a scapegoat for a much larger problem, that is the none combat professions are getting the shaft with each of the recent expansions. The problem is too many looted or quest weapons that it is not possible to compete with. I know I have a WS, for the time after the CU and before RoTW really struck home business was good, however when people started picking up these looted weapons the market disappeared for anything other than one off builds when people get some nice cubes, tissues, etc. I personally think any ADK nerf at the moment is stupid, personally the problem could be addressed by making it possible for WS to reverse engineer these looted or quest weapons to make their own versions of them.
Your also forgeting the investment some players have put into things that they have placed their ADKs on, such as Jedi with their pearls and crystals, some with sabers protected by ADK with pearls that no longer drop. As a community we should not be calling for nerfs, it will always come to bite us on the butt later. We should encourage the creation of balance through enhancement not nerfing.
Your also forgeting the investment some players have put into things that they have placed their ADKs on, such as Jedi with their pearls and crystals, some with sabers protected by ADK with pearls that no longer drop. As a community we should not be calling for nerfs, it will always come to bite us on the butt later. We should encourage the creation of balance through enhancement not nerfing.
Narut0
Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:08 am
#35
think about the reward weapons, you think DEVs haven't tryed to make it easyer for Weaponsmiths to make better weapons ?
loot drops are becomming easyer to find for starters, also you got the inspration buffs makeing far better crafting even at 12 PTS.
the resorce buff so every resorce gives 5% more stats (i think its 5%)
just means your uber weapons get better hopfully on par with standard ones, personly they should have more options to make weapons from loot schematics even be able to craft weapons you get rewards from. i personly would like to see a change to how combat droids are made and have to include weaponssmith made weapon componets to make the CL higher. (the weapon must be compatible with droid combat mount in combat moduel crafting ECT so no loot weapons ect.)
loot drops are becomming easyer to find for starters, also you got the inspration buffs makeing far better crafting even at 12 PTS.
the resorce buff so every resorce gives 5% more stats (i think its 5%)
just means your uber weapons get better hopfully on par with standard ones, personly they should have more options to make weapons from loot schematics even be able to craft weapons you get rewards from. i personly would like to see a change to how combat droids are made and have to include weaponssmith made weapon componets to make the CL higher. (the weapon must be compatible with droid combat mount in combat moduel crafting ECT so no loot weapons ect.)
Camelz
Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:10 am
#36
mort666 wrote:
I think the ADK is being used as a scapegoat for a much larger problem, that is the none combat professions are getting the shaft with each of the recent expansions. The problem is too many looted or quest weapons that it is not possible to compete with. I know I have a WS, for the time after the CU and before RoTW really struck home business was good, however when people started picking up these looted weapons the market disappeared for anything other than one off builds when people get some nice cubes, tissues, etc. I personally think any ADK nerf at the moment is stupid, personally the problem could be addressed by making it possible for WS to reverse engineer these looted or quest weapons to make their own versions of them.
Your also forgeting the investment some players have put into things that they have placed their ADKs on, such as Jedi with their pearls and crystals, some with sabers protected by ADK with pearls that no longer drop. As a community we should not be calling for nerfs, it will always come to bite us on the butt later. We should encourage the creation of balance through enhancement not nerfing.
QFE
Dont use ADKs as a scapegoat when crafters have been getting the shaft with every publish since the day the game went live. ADKs are a very small part of a very big problem, dont think all crafters woes will be over if ADKs were removed from the game tomorrow.
Luzenit
Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:11 am
#37
ADKs are a contributing component to what ails the weapons crafting profression, but it certainly not the absolute cause to our woes. Maybe we should have a focus thread addressing all the factors that have negatively impacted the weapons profession and constructive ideas to pass along to the devs on remedying the situation.
Problems -
1.) The CU - This is the biggest reason for the difficulties we have at present. As soon as a player hits master level, there are only one or two desirable (capped) weapons needed. Most weapons we are able to craft are now unsellable for the most part. Even without an ADK, a player needs the same weapon(s) over and over again. The CU removed thed the need for owning various weapons that had different primary elemental damages such as heat, cold, stun, blast, etc. Weapons are now of two types of damage -kinetic and energy - - - and a player only needs a favorite or two to take care of his/her PvE & PvP needs. Before the CU, and even after the introduction of ADKs, business was good. There was always a demand for different weapons AND there was always a chance a better weapon could be crafted. Many of my regular clients are now Jedi (as a majority of players are) and no longer need my goods or services. I am sure there are many Jedi alts that are crafters, but it I am not sure of the impact on the economy that has.
2.) Looted Weapons are Better - Sadly, looted weapons are oftenbetter than the craftables. A player can easily replace a lootable weapon when needed - from Nym slug throwers to the killer weapons found on Kesh. It appears that the new expansion will be offering even more looted weapons that surpasss anything we can make. Granted, power cells and reinforced casings allow some nice weapons to be made, but our basic weapons do not compete. Even slicing is not allowed to go over hard caps to make crafted goods more desirable.
3.) ADKs - A weapon will or piece of armor will never die with an ADK applied, but how much of an impact is this really compared to the above listed concerns? There are players that have bought multiple ADKs for armor and weapon(s), but that also means that there are that many players that no longer have one (limit 1 ADK/account). There are far more players that no longer have an ADK at their disposal and wish they hadit back! They are a rare commodity going for over 20 million credits on my server. The cost alone excludes many players from ever getting an ADK (unless they are able to receive it as a reward). There are not that many ADK'ed weapons for sale or trade on my server as it is. It is too easy (and cheaper)to go get a better weapon and re ADK than finding a buyer/trader for the
old ADK'ed weapon.
What to do?
1.)Undo what the CU has done to our profession - Please bring different resists/vulnerabilities back to the game! Allow different weapons to do different damages. Raise or eliminate the hard caps on weapons. Allow slices to go over any cap placed on only crafted goods. If there was always a chance for a better weapon to be made, this will keep driving business. Our cookie cutter weaponsaren't doing the job.
2.) Reduce superior, looted weapons in game and expansions - The absolute best weapons should require a weaponsmith. Schematics and looted enhancements should be the backbone of weapon loot on the expansions. Looted items should be severely restricted as far as use of ADKs, power-ups, or slicing goes. Certain superior weapons should be lootable/quested for only one time/per character. Nothing more should be introduced to SWG that further undermines crafting and our player driven economy. As it is, most players have gone Jedi (or in the process of) and are very independent. In a sense, the player base that uses crafters(i.e., weapons and armor)continues to shrink.
3.) A weapon ADK'ed should be bio-linked - Well, this is a more 'feel good' move and can be done. It means little over all. In fact, most new looted weapons from the expansion ToOW will have to be bio-linked to work anyway. As I have stated earlier, trading and selling ADK'ed weapons has not been that common. I do not want to see any actual changes to ADK's themselves....no nerfs or seeing them bio-linked.
Rinviero
Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:12 am
#38
Luzenit wrote:
Maybe we should have a focus thread addressing all the factors that have negatively impacted the weapons profession and constructive ideas to pass along to the devs on remedying the situation.
It's there already in the stickys