Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Anyone else getting frustrated by.....
Panthu wrote:
Muzz wrote:
edit... Panthu, please take the thrashing comments in the spirit they were intended. The most unfortunate thing with forums is there is no voice inflection.
Oh, well thanks for putting that edit in. It doesn't totally make me feel better about this thread, but I went back and reread and see now that it was intended to go with the "baron" theme.
Honestly though, I don't see a lot of Ents accusing you all of being barons just because you are a WS or AS. I really hope you guys can like Musicians and see them as non-combat allies soon. Another thing you guys were joking about above was a problem we all share - getting ag as a CL0.
We did have a lot of requests for an anti-ag buff for non-combatants. Maybe if we all asked for it together we might could get it now.
Anyway, I hate it that this thread even needed to happen, I know Musicians want to be seen as friends of WSs, not something to be resented.
It wasn't directed at you or entertainers specifically Panthu - rather at the people who seem to think they cantake their knowledge of crafting and place it onto the WS profession.
I have seen so many comments about crafting from people who clearly just don't get or understandthe WS crafting system.... and for that reason they conjur up all sorts of reasons for our disagreement to the Resource Buffs.
Its just a little annoying. I don't mind people who are willing to reason but some people just seem determined to put us into the "EVIL CREDIT BARON" category and refuse to accept that maybe just maybe our reasons for disliking the resource buff are because we don't want to see our profession ruined.
Anyone who thinks weaponsmith is an instant method to ungodly rich should take up the profession and find out the truth. I took it up a month or so before curb went live. In that time I have spent at least double what I have made. I take pride in the fact that I can now compete with the best on my server. I have spent millions on resources and my suit. If I wanted to just make credits I would loot, that's where the cash cow is. I picked up weaponsmith to have something different to do, killing creatures/NPC's over and over tends to get boring.
The resource buff is a slap in the face to all crafters who have spent millions and months of time finding all the best resources. At least they cut it from 10% to 2%, but that's still 2% to much. Buffs for assembly and expeimentation should be enough.
Well call me stingy if you want but I can't understand the reasoning behind all the talk thatbeginners of a profession should be able to compete with the best on the server.
When I started as an artisan and weaponsmith. I couldn't make the best weapons.. couldn't compete with the top WS for almost 6 months (thats about the time that it takes for all the necessary resources for the profession to spawn in any decent quality). I never cried or whined that it was unfair that I couldn't compete with the best. I just kept harvesting and learning the profession.and i would craftwhat I could make the best that I could and I would be happy with that.
After over a year and a half there are still a number of smiths on my server that I cant compete with. Sure unenhanced i'll give them a run for their resources but I just dont have the large guild to supply enhancements that some WS on my server have. Do I complain? No. I just make what I can, the best I can and I do enough business to keep me happy and I also have time to do other things besidescrafting that some smiths may not have time for. And I don't really compete with other smiths anyway. I just try to top myself and if I can do that I'm happy.
There is no reason that in a free market game such as SWG tries to be, that beginners of a profession should be on the same par as those that have work hard and struggled to build a sucessful business.
The experimentation changes that were made after the CU made it so that almost every spawn of resources is very close to the best spawns ever. they narrowed the gap. the proposed buffs, even 2% will make that gap even smaller.
Heorot wrote:
Wow, you do have selective memory don't you.
linky
Just be honest, the reason for not liking caps is the same as the reason for not liking this - you don't want it to be easier to reach that top game that sets the market value for both resources and products because then prices will be lowered.
Where in that statement did you qualify it as "a very small subset"?
It all boils down to being able to make more money from being at the absolute top and keeping others out so they can't lower your prices.
So, you are saying that all weaponsmiths are purely in it for money?
How about this post?
Ok, are you kidding? Read the text in red. For anyone who is confused here, this is resource hoarding, just like I said. I support crafting being geared towards casual gamers like it was intended. It was never supposed to be a "get in early or suck forever" game... and I'm not buying it that it "dumbs down crafting" just because a few people with an unfair advantage want to keep others out.
I don't see you qualifying that post talking a "a small subset".
Kinda sucks that people can actually see what you posted and you have to stand by what you said sometimes doesnt it.
Panthu wrote:
Heorot wrote:
Wow, you do have selective memory don't you.
linky
Just be honest, the reason for not liking caps is the same as the reason for not liking this - you don't want it to be easier to reach that top game that sets the market value for both resources and products because then prices will be lowered.
Where in that statement did you qualify it as "a very small subset"?
It all boils down to being able to make more money from being at the absolute top and keeping others out so they can't lower your prices.
So, you are saying that all weaponsmiths are purely in it for money?
How about this post?
Ok, are you kidding? Read the text in red. For anyone who is confused here, this is resource hoarding, just like I said. I support crafting being geared towards casual gamers like it was intended. It was never supposed to be a "get in early or suck forever" game... and I'm not buying it that it "dumbs down crafting" just because a few people with an unfair advantage want to keep others out.
I don't see you qualifying that post talking a "a small subset".
Kinda sucks that people can actually see what you posted and you have to stand by what you said sometimes doesnt it.
No it doesn't suck, I claim all of those posts. It did not occur to me at the time that so many people who are posters in here would consider themselves what I think of as "hoarders" and hoarders who wanted to keep out new players seemingly forever at that. The above referenced "text in red" was the very first post I responded to which I already brought up in this thread and which as I already said described hoarding and keeping out new players from ever catching up.I don't like the practice nor the sentiment and I won't pretend like I now do just because so many people in here seem to relate to it on some level. What I will do is back the heck down out of respect for other people's attachment to it. I don't understand, the people and the practice I was making comments about are nasty people who are selfish, yet most of the people in here seem to be very nice and even kind to new crafters - so I don't understand why the nice posters in here are aligning themselves with the nasty mean people I was referring to and thinking I was responding to, but I am willing to accept that there is something here I'm just not getting.Now, how many posts have I made since those first few posts saying basically "ok, I'm willing to accept that this isn't right for you guys, what would be ok?" I backed down, I guess that might be hard for you to understand, but I do it fairly often if I am convinced by others that I might not have the whole story or might not understand it from their side. Why is that so hard to understand? When I was speaking firmly, I was sure I was right. When I was not longer sure, I stopped speaking so firmly.Isn't the point of debate and reasoning with someone to get them to give your point of view a chance? I've considered the popular point of view in here and I am giving it a chance. *shrug* You guys changed my mind, did you not mean to? *is totally confused*
Panthu, I think most of us are caught up in how suddenly the devs implemented such an idea, we realise that you were merely sticking up for your profession as we were sticking up for ours. Hopefully we can put this in the past and work together. I know most of us were speaking very strongly and would not have backed down. We can't bash Panthu for doing the same.
Panthu wrote:
It did not occur to me at the time that so many people who are posters in here would consider themselves what I think of as "hoarders" and hoarders who wanted to keep out new players seemingly forever at that....
....What I will do is back the heck down out of respect for other people's attachment to it. I don't understand, the people and the practice I was making comments about are nasty people who are selfish, yet most of the people in here seem to be very nice and even kind to new crafters - so I don't understand why the nice posters in here are aligning themselves with the nasty mean people I was referring to and thinking I was responding to, but I am willing to accept that there is something here I'm just not getting.
Those "nasty mean people" you are talking about are some of the nicest most generous people I know. Two that I personally know that can't stand the resource buff are Woosh, a chef, who I've never heard the SMALLEST mean thing said about ever. And Nosoupforu who has helped TONS of players. Heck on Publish 9 day he GAVE away hundreds of thousands of the best resources ever to spawn just to help Jedi who didn't have access to the best resources.
I'm glad you are realizing that there is another point of view and that the people who have that point of view are not "nasty mean selfish people". In fact those people are smart, nice, courteous, kind people. All they want is to keep a really cool crafting system that is threatened every single publish to be dumbed down. Please keep reading and see that these people aren't spitefully hoarding resources, but are challenging themselves to create the coolest stuff ever, not make fistfuls of cash, but rather to do something really tough and fun.
Hopefully we can convince the Devs to get rid of the resource buff completely and give Dancers / Musicians / Entertainers / Image Designers some real content for a change.
Message Edited by Heorot on 08-28-2005 02:48 AM
Panthu wrote:
Uh, I was the first one who caught hell for saying something harsh about hoarding - but I was responding to one specific post that described hoarding exactly. I called what he described selfish and a monopoly, but he was specifically talking about keeping out newer crafters just to make his own wares worth more.I never said all WSs and ASs were rich, in fact I was saying that it wasn't fair that only a few people could build wealth when there were monopolies.I was only talking about a very small subset of the very most top end crafters for each prof on each server and not even all of them that had a stash was I accusing of being selfish, only the ones who said they never wanted to let in any new blood.Now in return for those comments about a subset of a subset of a subset (like what? Maybe 6 people on each server average?), I got called names, accused of only caring about Ents and our own ability to make money, and was accused of not being very bright (uh, only said more colorfully).This is a little goofy considering that I do like crafters, I am excited about working with them, and I want you guys to have more money and more involved gameplay. I admitted over and over again that I didn't care if the resource buff was changed or taken out all together.... and I've also said again and again that I support each crafting community asking for their own specific version of the buff - obviously a cookie cutter buff isn't best for you guys.Comments like the above talking about beating Ents down are a little much.I thought the comments about all Ents obviously being stupid were bad enough, but really, beatings? Come on, can't we all just drop the hurt feelings and try to work together?
Message Edited by Panthu on 08-27-2005 12:19 PM
Panthu, YOU may not have been referring to 'most' WS's and AS's, but there is a huge misconception out there simply because of the few you are referring to. Obviously it does suck that a few clowns like that can perpetuate such a theory for an entire group of professions. And as much as you wanted to refer to that select sect of our professions, the people that are of that belief were so happy to take your comments, glom onto them and go nuts jumping on the bandwagon, did just that.
I am more than happy to answer questions and help out any new up and coming weaponsmiths, I've had a few tell me they've had alts or decided to try weaponsmith themselves because of my stuff (k, not really how I wanted it to sound, kind of too self important and not meant to) Which was very very flattering, I was more than willing to help them out. Obviously I'd love to have better stuff than them still but thats what keeps a lot of us at the top of our game, the competition and fear of falling behind. I just prefer that people go through the same road I went. As someone said before I worked a long time to put my suit together, an amazingly long time to grind out FS crafting master and harvest an amazing bunch of resources, it would have been lame to have someone that hasn't put the effort and time into doing it come in and jump right in. I've said it and I'll say it again, for most of us, I'm pretty certain its not about the money. I think most smiths are statwhores (
) sounds like a bad term but, its kind of the truth. I have several excel sheets detailing almost every facet of my resources, guns and believe it or not my competitions weapon stats as well (got a little less involved after the vendor search thing came in game) As for the beatings I don't think 'the cantina' comment was really intended for the entertainers, what other structure would you pick where there are people? I might be wrong but, its not the way it came across to me.
I don't hold any animosity for the entertainers and hope they don't hold any resentment towards us as well. But, I can bet dollars to doughnuts that we'll be blamed for this for a long time. People still blame us for the 'one day crafting nerf' and that was over a year ago.
Heorot wrote:
Those "nasty mean people" you are talking about are some of the nicest most generous people I know. ...
I'm glad you are realizing that there is another point of view and that the people who have that point of view are not "nasty mean selfish people". ...
Please stop trying to bait me into discussing a practice I've already voiced my opinion on well enough. You have not changed my opinion on the practice and ability to "hoard", but I have been courteous enough to stop giving it. It needn't have a thing to do with these buffs, so I am quite happy keeping my opinion to myself on the subject.
Which I first started doing less than twenty four hours after my first post where I said harsh things about the practice and ability. So again please, don't act like I am only now considering other people's feelings and opinions on this matter. It's been a full four days now since I turned around and stopped arguing in defense of the resource component of these new buffs... after only arguing for itless than a day five days ago.
Perhaps it is you who needs to be considering others a bit more since you were unable to notice these things on your own?
Can anyone else remember a change that has stirred up such animosity between different professions in the community?
What a shame it had to come to this.