Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Petition non vednorable sliced goods.
ikemo2
Mon Feb 14, 2005 10:08 pm
#27
no go. I grinded weaponsmith and slicer for a reason. So I could have better weapons, sorry.
TekKellatt
Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:14 pm
#28
Tiggs (at least I think it was Tiggs, was a red name regardless.) has said the devs will not even bother looking at petition threads anymore a few months ago.
Message Edited by TekKellatt on 02-15-2005 12:15 AM
ana-mo-cara
Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:17 am
#29
Perhaps part of the problem is that players are just going through smiths for slices in the first place. This might be where the skewed view comes from. The fact that steak is on your plate dosent tell you how you got it. The customer doesnt know that a huge chunk of the cow went into hotdogs. That the seller is getting rid of the garbage by selling the garbage at cost, or destroying it outright.
You know when the game was new players generally understood how the sliceing system worked, and players did not grief the smuggler for it. They knew it was random and that a master was just a little bit better then a novice. The fact that many players are not understanding now. Is comeing from the fact that they do not have to deal with smugglers in any direct sense. Infact alot of players do not even know what sliceing is. Thats how bad it is the entire concept is beyond them.
I have literally had customers come up to me and ask me to slice something when I had my weaponsmith tag on. When I asked how they knew I was a smuggler. They were totally perplexed they thought MWS were the people that did the sliceing. Not that they were far wrong.
Hell when I was out walking the streets doing my slice speal. Players literally sent me tells asking what sliceing was. This is cute when its a noob its sad when the guy has a T21 in his hand and has a master tag.
As for the sliceing gear clamps and wuks and knives. I think those should be vendorable. Spice maybe not hopefully the curb will kick it up a notch and players could sell it on the street.
haristyles
Tue Feb 15, 2005 1:22 am
#30
You say this is ruining the smugglers income. Smugglers have spice and tools to sell, faction points to delegate (I think this will be huge with the upcoming GCW/CU changes), there is a definite market for these. I see masters selling faction bases and armor and making 30-50% profit on them. How is that not making a good income?As a side note, when I have my Master Smuggler tag on, I get hit up about every 10 mins to slice weapons or armor and usually several of each at 5k per slice, there is still a market out there for the service.
What I don't understand is, what is the player doing with his other 129 skill points? Certainly (s)he is using them for something else to make money with. And while we're on the subject of skill points...why do we have unarmed skills for smuggling? Is it for all the bar fights?
Wandered a little with that last part but that's how it goes. 
DragonSnack
Tue Feb 15, 2005 6:32 am
#31
Giamai by this statment are you implying that Krayts slice weapons?
as for exceptional weapons dropping out of a krayt's butt? lol yeah but think about what that krayt might have had for lunch...some guy might have been digested but his weapon survived
Now we have the dog gone dragons moving in on the smuggler's business!
samijx
Tue Feb 15, 2005 11:55 am
#32
/sign
Sliced weapons are supposed to be illegal so why should a legal vendor be able to sell them? That's like going into walmart and buying a rocket launcher and some cocaine. (Not gonna happen)
Perhaps make a master Merchant skill "Sell blackmarket goods"
I agree that WS's and AS's shouldn't have to take the risk of bad slices. They ought to be taken by the customer who chooses to alter their "legal" items.
Message Edited by samijx on 02-15-2005 12:56 PM
samijx
Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:00 pm
#33
EdOWar wrote:
This is a tough one, and sure to be very, very unpopular with the masses.In principleI agree with this idea. We are talking about an illegal item being placed on the public bazaar or on the vendor of a supposedly legitimate business (same goes for spice and slicing equipment). That's like me selling crack and Uzi's out of a 7-11. Doesn't make sense, especially in light of the Imperial Crackdown and random scans for illegal items.
That said, this idea will never be implemented. 90% of the player-base would be up in arms about this change, not just MWS/Master Smug templates. And though it doesn't make sense that we can sell illegal stuff on a public bazaar, there's a lot of stuff that doesn't make sense in SWG...this would be just one more thing.
Too badthe Devsdidn't have the foresight to implement this from launch. Hehe, put it on the list for SWG2.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Hey, I made a similar analagy before reading your post 
Giamai
Tue Feb 15, 2005 12:37 pm
#34
DragonSnack wrote:
Giamai by this statment are you implying that Krayts slice weapons?
as for exceptional weapons dropping out of a krayt's butt? lol yeah but think about what that krayt might have had for lunch...some guy might have been digested but his weapon survived
Now we have the dog gone dragons moving in on the smuggler's business!
actually this was in response to this statement from corenlaura (sp?):
"Other than stating this probably will never ever happen I will say just this. If you guys are worried about starwars "canon", consider that the best weapons of the game sometimes drop out of a Krayt's behind (exceptional weapons)."
says nothing about slicing them but those krayts are uber...who knows what they might do 
Smuggler_Caylin
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:04 pm
#35
I approve of the idea where we could still maintain some sort of merchant activity on illegal items. However the game does not at this time have any features that support the addition of a criminally oriented merchant with the risks and rewards such a business should include. Even then, these merchants should never be globally listing illegal products to the general populace out of various reason concerning immersion and realism.
Please remember that a master smugglers has nothing to define himself from another master smuggler. Our services are either fixed or based completely on luck. Skill has nothing to do with what we can do. So our competition will be absolutely, without question a nightmarish activity that many of you will be lucky and never have to put up with.
Please remember that a master smugglers has nothing to define himself from another master smuggler. Our services are either fixed or based completely on luck. Skill has nothing to do with what we can do. So our competition will be absolutely, without question a nightmarish activity that many of you will be lucky and never have to put up with.
Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 02-15-2005 01:26 PM
One of the Four Horsemen of the Smuggler Apocalypse! 
Hurlobacca
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:36 pm
#36
Well, the game doesn't have any features currently that preclude the selling of sliced weapons, but that's being talked about so how is incorporating other new features any different. I can appreciate your desire for immersion but I never worry about being scanned for weapons. Most of the time I justdestroy the probot before he completes his scan, even though they are often unsuccessful at finding those weapons I have on me when I dont' shoot first.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I approve of the idea where we could still maintain some sort of merchant activity on illegal items. However the game does not at this time have any features that support the addition of a criminally oriented merchant with the risks and rewards such a business should include. Even then, these merchants should never be globally listing illegal products to the general populace out of various reason concerning immersion and realism.
Please remember that a master smugglers has nothing to define himself from another master smuggler. Our services are either fixed or based completely on luck. Skill has nothing to do with what we can do. So our competition will be absolutely, without question a nightmarish activity that many of you will be lucky and never have to put up with.
Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 02-15-2005 01:26 PM
Smuggler_Caylin
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:52 pm
#37
Hurlobacca wrote:Well, the game doesn't have any features currently that preclude the selling of sliced weapons, but that's being talked about so how is incorporating other new features any different. I can appreciate your desire for immersion but I never worry about being scanned for weapons. Most of the time I just destroy the probot before he completes his scan, even though they are often unsuccessful at finding those weapons I have on me when I dont' shoot first.
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
I approve of the idea where we could still maintain some sort of merchant activity on illegal items. However the game does not at this time have any features that support the addition of a criminally oriented merchant with the risks and rewards such a business should include. Even then, these merchants should never be globally listing illegal products to the general populace out of various reason concerning immersion and realism.
Please remember that a master smugglers has nothing to define himself from another master smuggler. Our services are either fixed or based completely on luck. Skill has nothing to do with what we can do. So our competition will be absolutely, without question a nightmarish activity that many of you will be lucky and never have to put up with.Message Edited by Smuggler_Caylin on 02-15-2005 01:26 PM
Your right, but we do have the concept that the items are illegal from the very beginning of the game and proper penalties/realities should apply to those objects that are. Illegal items have been treated as a staple by the public and that will always work against the smugglers getting the role they should have had since launch. For those items should be the exception and should never have been the rule.
With the combat upgrade upcoming, I hope that feeling will be eased and slicing will not be so much as a requirement as much as it is an option. There is also the hope of making spices obtained, rather than mass-produced as well as giving greater control of slices in general. Those changes should have a large impact on what is marketable and what is not. Pre-sliced items before that hopefuly change against weapons that were personally altered for that player. There is simply no way your stocked items will compare to a robust slicing system that many hope to be included in the smuggler revamp. We do need to look ahead a bit. It would hurt now, that's not in doubt but it starts to put a difference between what is for the normal mainstream economy and what is an exception to the rule.
It's all a bunch of hopes and dreams but they are the hopes and dreams that make a profession actually do the job they were intended to do. This is simply one step that is almost essential to that goal. We all know the scan system right now is a joke but many of us are working to make sure it isn't always going to be.
StrandedonEarth
Tue Feb 15, 2005 2:59 pm
#38
My nod to this would be to make it run like the real world. Sure, you can sell contraband on your vendor, but the vendor is subject to periodic search and potential seizure of contraband. Unless the vendor owner is an Imperial of high ranking and can order the ST's to move along (although he may then get 'interviewed'by Lord Vader), or a smuggler who can bribe them off. A rebel vendor owner who's had sliced stock seized could even find a bounty placed on his headif he's not in his shop at the time.
/dream off
Hurlobacca
Tue Feb 15, 2005 3:01 pm
#39
Smuggler_Caylin wrote:
Whyshould illegal itemsbepermitted on what should be a legitimate business front? In time, sliced goods and spices could besold in a galaxy-wide fashion, depending on how the developers seek to tweak their bazaar search feature. That shouldn't happen simply as a conceptual idea of an illegal item being so easily seen and available.
Sothis is a good time to once again ask about the 'Vision' for illegal products on the open market. Is it the developers intention to have these products listed in this way? Or is there the opportunity to take these illegal items off of vendors across the galaxy? I think there is and I don't think it's an unreasonable request. Far from it actually.
By removing these illegal goods from legitimate businesses, what stands to change?
- Mass slicing orderswill go down, if all illegal products have to be sold face to face. How does his accomplish anything since all weapons are already sliced by smugglers?
- Smugglers who actually sell spice will have problems moving their product. If sliced weapons and armors can't be sold on vendors, neither should spice or slicing tools be allowed, since slicing tools have no legal purpose in the game.
- We put in a level of reality to the game where we aren't selling crank in department stores. I remember reading about the guy who got busted selling bags of pot from thefast-food restaurant drive-thru window. Some of the biggest criminals to be found reside in corporate boardrooms.
- Merchants who specialize in final products (post-slice) will have some real problems. Gee, smugglers got hosed when chef foods rendered their products obsolete so let's go screw someone else over.
- Illegal merchandise will be carried on person more often, opening up the chance for more scan detections. That's ok with me, goes with the territory.
- In the event the bazaar search goes in, all the crafters who sold these illegal items will be on even footing as there will not be a line between those who have a smuggler working for them and those who do not. It evens out the playing field. Another example of creating an imaginary problem to suit your purposes. I don't have a smuggler working for me, I have several and any weaponsmith who wants to sell sliced weapons can find a smuggler if they want to.
- By having sales face to face players will cease taking a smugglers skill for granted instead of dismissing it out of hand. The only thing I dismiss out of hand is the assertion that I'm somehow taking smuggler's skills for granted or taking advantage of them. I pay my smugglers well, provide the tools, and hook them up with weapons. If you think that all of the smugglers on their respective servers can make enough credits to support themselves solely through slicing I think you are kidding yourself.
- It establishes the concept that illegal materials actually are illegal and opens a few doors for smugglers to have a valid profession bydoing what they were intended to do. Smuggle. Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it. If we are going to take the immersion aspect to its logical conclusion then it has to work both ways. The empire doesn't like smugglers but for some reason the developers have not seriously incorporated the smuggler's status as criminals into the game. Just like a jedi winds up on the terminals for flashing his saber, so should the smuggler wind up on the terminals for smuggling activities such as slicing. I can envision a scenario where smugglers have players lined up waiting for slices like docs with their buff lines when out pops a BH who tracked that dirty smuggler down and proceeds to halt that smuggler's activities with extreme prejudice, resulting in that smuggler's trip to the cloning center.
Smugglers will lose some of the big business that larger in-game producers have taken advantage of to sell their wares. Most smugglers I know approve of this change because it would actually add another perception that our services are based on illegal items. Then you obviously agree that the scenario described above would be something you and the smugglers you know would approve of.
The merchants who sell these are put in the position of having a few hundred items they can no longer stock on vendors and have to find a place for. It's not going to be pleasant for them in the least. That's not important to you though because as long as smugglers get what they want how it impacts other players is irrrelevant.
What I see here in this thread is a focus on weapons. It should never have been a focus on weapons but on all illegal materials. We are arguing against the conceptual flaw that you can buy cocaine and sawed off shotguns at your local Walmart. With it's prices listed online.
While it certainly does hurt those respective crafters who hired smugglers and listed those items, many of you fail to understand how it would hurt the smuggler as well. Few of you havehad the experience of being a real street-side seller of items and the competition that it brings. I've been there, since launch and I know what it means and I still support the idea of preventing the market listing of illegal items completely. Yawn.
We could always make sure that illegalitems that are on vendors presently would not be removed automatically when the system could be changed to allow any further illegal items to be placed on the public market. That way you would still have a chance to sell your current merchandise. How thoughtful of you. Do us a favor and dont' do us any favors.
Itcomes down to whether or not the developers ever intended for illegal items in this game to seem illegal.