Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: No serial number cube --- exploit or by design? --
Quujquux
Mon May 10, 2004 5:17 pm
#14
Except, it's not. Unserialed Krayt tissue allowed you to improve the stats of mediocre tissues using a schematic created with a good unserialed tissue. Unserialed white cubes offer no stat improvements, only the ability to make a schematic. It would make for a perfectly valid feature if done intentionally. The problem is that the devs have said nothingspecific tothis matter, and there's the similar-but-different example with Krayt tissues to confuse the issue.
Kielker wrote:
It sounds like the exact same problem as with unserialized krayt tissues. To me, its an obvious exploit.
LLJK_Griz
Mon May 10, 2004 8:56 pm
#15
The exploit is in the schematic, not the stats. The krayt thing had the same schematic issue plus the potential for a stats exploit.
Unserialized items allow you to essentially bypass the identical loot component requirement and produce way more things than you're supposed to. One GSB schematic (5 uses) will produce 30 legitimate weapons (5 sets of 7 identical cubes, minus five for schematics) or up to FIVE THOUSAND exploited ones (five bugged cubes to make 5 1k schematics and 5k random white cubes which people will happily sell you for like 2k each).
... why do we even bother debating this?The devs don'tcare.
Ohig
Wed May 12, 2004 9:23 am
#16
All i can say is that in a server where i have a master weaponsmith character there is a vendor with many geonosian weapons same serial. It affects my market because he's selling the weapons below regular market price. It looks unfair because i can not compete with this way of gaming. I feel that i'm out of geonosian weapons bussiness. It's defenitely an exploit because he's taking advantage of a bug of the game to affect the development of other master weaponsmith characters.
Ohig
NikkiDial
Wed May 12, 2004 1:32 pm
#17
1) The trash heap was fixed already.
2) No one is gaining any real advantage here. For the most part white cubes
are deleted anyways since they have trouble selling for 1k each. So people will
delete them so they can get other geno loot. Giving weaponsmiths the ability to
make schematics with these allowed a real market to exist. Not a fake one
based on the fact the cubes where semi rare only because people deleted
them instead of selling/giving them to weaponsmiths.
3) All white cubes are statless. This gave no exploitive advantage like Krayt
tissues did. You used to be able to use +30 tissues in schematics with +200
krayt tissues being used. This offered a real advantage, unlike the cubes.
4) if you want in on the Geno weapon market then do a search for geno loot
vendors. Do this around coronet. I bet you find many of those loot vendors
have around 50-100 white cubes for 1k or less just sitting there all the time. Not
like its hard to do. Just go out and look and while you are at it grab all the yellow,
red, and greens.
5) They wherent rare they spawned every 5-10 mins so not like it was hard to get.
Heck not even something that could really be horded since one cube is good for
so many items. That and how fast it spawned gave no advantage to anyone. It
would actually create a market for all regular white cubes for those hunting them,
and creat a gun market for smiths looking to craft them.
6) Not like once you get one cube you have an instant 1k items. You still have to get
the other 1000 white cubes to go along with it.
BTW I have not made one whit ecube schematic. Heck I dont even have a
master weaponsmith yet. I just hate people crying exploit when it fact its a minor
bug that actually adds something to the game without messing with the balance.
Stars/Sandy
Ohig
Wed May 12, 2004 2:31 pm
#18
Looks like you don't have understood the problem. You say that you are not a weaponsmith and i will try to explain me better 
a) All the cubes are serialized, including white ones.
b) Some weaponsmith has a set of bugged non seralized cubes
c) The geonosian weapons are crafted from limited use schematics.
c) If you use bugged, non seralized cubes in an schematic that ask for this item then you will can use any cube, with any serial, to mass produce the weapon.
Example of a normal Scythe craft:
The max number of cubes with same serial dropped are 7. You are lucky andhave found a set of this cubes and want to craft a set of Scythe (two use schematic). In first place you need to craft geonosiansword cores. You use a cube for a sword core schematic and make a factory run using the remaining 6 cubes as components. Every sword core takes a cube then you now have 6 sword cores. Every Scythe takes two cores same serial. You can now use the two uses of the scythe schematic to make two scythe or you can decide sacrify two cores and the first use of the scythe schematic to make another schematic that will only accept as specific components the remaining four cores. If you act this way you can have two scythe and will still have remaining one originalscythe schematic use. This schematic can only be obtained twice in the life of a character, is rare and very expensive. Also the 7 set of cubes is not a regular drop.
Example using bugged cubes:
Make a geonosian core schematic using a bugged non serialized cube. You will can use any other cube as componentto make geonosian sword cores. You go to bazaar , shout at starport and ask all your friendspurchase any cube you see, any color, any serial number. You put all this cubes in a factory and make a run of cores. You will have crates of geonosian sword cores same serial. Then you use two of this cores to make an scythe schematic, and losing an use of your two use scythe sch. You can with time and some help craft 500 scythe.
I must sell the scythe according the schematic and cubes cost. The weaponsmith that is using bugged cubes no.
I hope that you will understand my poor english. And yes, it's an exploit.
Ohig
kingvidiot
Thu May 13, 2004 5:54 am
#19
im a ws. i sent in a ticket and asked about it. they told me it WAS an exploit.i deleted my "blanck" cube schematics, both a scythe and a geno pistol one. YES, i deleted them.
NikkiDial
Thu May 13, 2004 7:25 am
#20
They would all still be white cubes though. And just because someone with a blank saves a little time on his schematic than you do doesnt make this a huge exploit. Heck you can still compete with them just by going out to geo loot vendors and buying all their crap on a regular basis. You can still make the same amount of profit as they do. The bugged cubes only came in white so not like they will gain any benifit by putting in other color cubes in since they will all come out with no stats.
Kielker
Thu May 13, 2004 7:54 am
#21
NikkiDial wrote:
1) The trash heap was fixed already.
Which should be a good indication that the devs consider it a bug and/or exploit.
2) No one is gaining any real advantage here. For the most part white cubes
are deleted anyways since they have trouble selling for 1k each. So people will
delete them so they can get other geno loot. Giving weaponsmiths the ability to
make schematics with these allowed a real market to exist. Not a fake one
based on the fact the cubes where semi rare only because people deleted
them instead of selling/giving them to weaponsmiths.
Not true. There is a real advantage gained, as always, for people who are willing to take advantage of a bug as opposed to those who don't.
3) All white cubes are statless. This gave no exploitive advantage like Krayt
tissues did. You used to be able to use +30 tissues in schematics with +200
krayt tissues being used. This offered a real advantage, unlike the cubes.
The advantage is the weapon itself, due to the scythe schemtic being limited. The stats, although still important, are secondary. When you're talking about a 300+ max damage weapon, the 20-30 points of damage you gain using yellow cubes and solidifying agents is relatively insignificant when you can charge far, far less for the weapon.
I wouldn't care at all about this bug if the scythe schematic wasn't limited, but it is.
4) if you want in on the Geno weapon market then do a search for geno loot
vendors. Do this around coronet. I bet you find many of those loot vendors
have around 50-100 white cubes for 1k or less just sitting there all the time. Not
like its hard to do. Just go out and look and while you are at it grab all the yellow,
red, and greens.
I'm already in on the market. But for obvious reasons, its pretty hard to compete with someone who could potentially sell a scythe with 20 points less damage for 30k (and still make a huge profit) because they bought 1 schematic and 1000 dime-a-dozen white cubes. I'd have to charge at least 150k each (and that's pretty low) due to having to buy the schematic, cubes, and solidifying agents. And I could get at most 4 scythes from a single schematic whereas the serial numberless white cube will yield 500 scythes.
5) They wherent rare they spawned every 5-10 mins so not like it was hard to get.
Heck not even something that could really be horded since one cube is good for
so many items. That and how fast it spawned gave no advantage to anyone. It
would actually create a market for all regular white cubes for those hunting them,
and creat a gun market for smiths looking to craft them.
How easy or not they were to get isn't the issue, but I haven't run across one of these myself and I wouldn't use it if I did.
6) Not like once you get one cube you have an instant 1k items. You still have to get
the other 1000 white cubes to go along with it.
That's pretty easy to do since serial numbers make no difference in this case.
BTW I have not made one whit ecube schematic. Heck I dont even have a
master weaponsmith yet. I just hate people crying exploit when it fact its a minor
bug that actually adds something to the game without messing with the balance.
It does mess with the balance- the market balance. See the post directly above yours or my 150k scythe vs a 30k scythe example.
Stars/Sandy
Kielker
Thu May 13, 2004 8:13 am
#22
NikkiDial wrote:
They would all still be white cubes though. And just because someone with a blank saves a little time on his schematic than you do doesnt make this a huge exploit. Heck you can still compete with them just by going out to geo loot vendors and buying all their crap on a regular basis. You can still make the same amount of profit as they do. The bugged cubes only came in white so not like they will gain any benifit by putting in other color cubes in since they will all come out with no stats.
Its not about saving time. Its about a limited-use schematic. White cubes are cheap and easy to get. Scythe schematics are not. I've seen scythe schematics go from between 100k-500k.
I disagree that you can make anywhere near the same profit that a serial number-less white cube user can. I could make at most 4 scythes from a single schematic. Selling for 150k-200k each, that's 600k-800k total (just revenue, not profit). And that's taking a good deal of effort to find 7 identical solidifying solutions and 7 identical yellow cubes.
At 30k per scythe, the person who uses serial number-less white cubes can make 1000 scythes (500 from each use of the schematic) with minimal effort. That's 30 million credits. Not even remotely close. Even if I were to go crazy and charge 500k per scythe, that's 2 million in revenue and still very far from 30 million.
WeezerGeek
Thu May 13, 2004 11:49 am
#23
Earlier today, everything I looted had no serial number... Including 4 Solidifying Agents that add 22 damage, 5 white cubes, adrenal glands, klicknik enhancements, and 7 base genosian reinforcement cores... they were all looted within a 2 hours of each other...
Hope this gets fixed before someone hits some yellow cubes or a nice ackley bone without serials...
=w= Weezer Rivers =w=
Scylla
WeezerGeek
Thu May 13, 2004 11:54 am
#24
Sorry should have said everything I looted from the genosian cave has no serial number...
=w= Weezer Rivers =w=
Scylla
An0m4Ly
Thu May 13, 2004 11:59 am
#25
it is an exploit.
end of story
IT DOESNT MATTER THAT WHITE HAVE NO STATS
the exploit is the fact thata schematic is limited by the identical components it uses this was coded into the game to make things like scythes geno pistols and disruptors more rare and prized items
this EXPLOIT allows a smith to use ANY and ALL cubes with serials or not to make an unlimited schematic of 1000 uses from each schematic use
it is NO different from a set of 30 -0.3 unserialed krayt tissues.
which has WITHOUT DOUBT been declared an exploit. and quite a few people
got banned for it
use them in a schematic and i hope you get banned.
An0m4Ly
Thu May 13, 2004 1:02 pm
#26
waaha wrote:
exploit or by FAULTYdesign-
Chefs can make casks used in drinks......when the serial numbered cask is used in a schematic for say brandy, the cask becomes serial numberless, thus allowing the schematic to use any cask regardless of serial number, are chefs guilty of exploiting?
does this give a chef any advantage in the game at all over another chef? no
that becomes a "bug"
when a said "bug" in its application allows an unfair advantage to a player/players in a way that was not intended
it becomes "exploiting"