Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Time To End the +10 vrs +12 Crafter Wars?
Ghengis_Expee
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:14 pm
#14
At the very least it would benefit two other professions besides Weaponsmiths and help end the AFKcave camp-a-thons.
Ghengis_Expee
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:35 pm
#15
Eliss wrote:
Actually I see this helping :
Droid Engineers
Chef
Armorsmiths
Weaponsmiths
Architects
Artistians
that's more than 2
Yeah, math is hard.
I was thinking purely in terms of WS, Tailors and BE's but you're absolutely right.
Eliss
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:38 pm
#16
Heh.. BE's don't have any SEA modifiers. they don't exist.
For Tailors assembly and repair are the only things that matter... they took out the experimentation a long time ago.. so I left that one off the list.. but I guess it should be there.
Edit: D'oh I forgot about the Medicine Experimentation and Assembly too.
Message Edited by Eliss on 03-17-2004 04:42 PM
Ghengis_Expee
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:49 pm
#17
You're forgetting the most important part. More productsmeans more sales. More BE products to be sold to Tailors who in turn make more products and again is sold to ....
RaccaBoo
Wed Mar 17, 2004 2:56 pm
#18
skill attachments are fine the way they are now, they are rare already so why make them even rarer? Would not fix anything just make it so less smiths can get +2 extra pts.
Fahd Krath Master Bounty Hunter/Master Jedi Stalker
Ghengis_Expee
Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:00 pm
#19
RaccaBoo wrote:
skill attachments are fine the way they are now, they are rare already so why make them even rarer? Would not fix anything just make it so less smiths can get +2 extra pts.
I think you need to lookup the word Rare in the dictionary. If BE's could make the equivalent of skill tapes then everyone could get access to high level crafting bonuses without having to camp spawns or pay someone totally insane amounts of money to do it for them.
Stratego
Wed Mar 17, 2004 3:30 pm
#20
Skill tapes a dumb, plain and simple. It's a cop-out for an easy loot object by the Devs and doesn't make much sense when you think about it. What is it anyway? This tape thingy that you attach to your clothes (velcro??) to improve a range of different things such as experimentation ability (mental skill), crawl speed (physical ability), and terrain negotiation (dexterity and endurance) to name a few. How is a stupid little clothing attachment doing such a wide array of things???
They're a cop-out and shows a lack of imagination and authenticity by the Devs to put these general skill enhancing things in the game. They should be removed altogether from the game! In their place, droids should be used for a multitude of these skill enhancments. What makes more sense, a WS in a workshop with a droid aiding in the crafting process providing information to improve the experimentation results or wearing a "Magic" hat that has a +10 WS experimentation tape in it?? Or how about a droid in the field providing amplified or augmented visual or radar information to a sniper to improve his aim? Or a droid that augments your surveying equipment to increase the range?
BEs make clothing enhancements that make sense for the most part. Clothing that aids in preventing or stopping bleeding or improving mask scent. If you want to even out the playing field with skill enhancers and make them player made, do it right and give it to the droids. Skill tapes don't make logical sense in their use and magical enhancing capabilities and should be taken OUT of the game.
p4Samwise
Wed Mar 17, 2004 4:00 pm
#21
Making skill attachments player-craftable would not make them rarer. Anything that's player-craftable with obtainable components will be produced in whatever quantities the market can support.
RaccaBoo wrote:
skill attachments are fine the way they are now, they are rare already so why make them even rarer?
EdOWar
Wed Mar 17, 2004 5:04 pm
#22
Stratego wrote:
Skill tapes a dumb, plain and simple. It's a cop-out for an easy loot object by the Devs and doesn't make much sense when you think about it. What is it anyway? This tape thingy that you attach to your clothes (velcro??) to improve a range of different things such as experimentation ability (mental skill), crawl speed (physical ability), and terrain negotiation (dexterity and endurance) to name a few. How is a stupid little clothing attachment doing such a wide array of things???
They're a cop-out and shows a lack of imagination and authenticity by the Devs to put these general skill enhancing things in the game. They should be removed altogether from the game! In their place, droids should be used for a multitude of these skill enhancments. What makes more sense, a WS in a workshop with a droid aiding in the crafting process providing information to improve the experimentation results or wearing a "Magic" hat that has a +10 WS experimentation tape in it?? Or how about a droid in the field providing amplified or augmented visual or radar information to a sniper to improve his aim? Or a droid that augments your surveying equipment to increase the range?
BEs make clothing enhancements that make sense for the most part. Clothing that aids in preventing or stopping bleeding or improving mask scent. If you want to even out the playing field with skill enhancers and make them player made, do it right and give it to the droids. Skill tapes don't make logical sense in their use and magical enhancing capabilities and should be taken OUT of the game.
Right on the money! Skill tapes do have a kind of "magic ring" feel to them, and they don't seem to be very logical. I like the idea of having droids that give the bonuses, especially for the crafting skill bonuses. That makes a lot more sense, and it's much more 'Star Warsy'.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
LLJK_Griz
Wed Mar 17, 2004 6:25 pm
#23
p4Samwise wrote:
Making skill attachments player-craftable would not make them rarer. Anything that's player-craftable with obtainable components will be produced in whatever quantities the market can support.
RaccaBoo wrote:
skill attachments are fine the way they are now, they are rare already so why make them even rarer?
If they made them craftable they'd required some absurdly rare loot item (like, 10% chance of dropping off a mob that spawns once a day on Dathomir) and even then there would be massive whining from people with SEAs who don't want anyone else to be able to compete with them.
Soar
Wed Mar 17, 2004 7:28 pm
#24
Well I don't think the Devs are going to be doing much about this anytime soon. It effects only one feature of crafting, and not all crafters at that. The majority of proffesions such as the combat classes have no signifcant beef with SEAs. Besides the skill tape system is broken atm, so if any attention is given to skill tapes it will be a fix to the current problems.
That being said I think this is kind of a silly thing to be worried about, and is a far cry from "tearing at the threads of the player community." Looking at the WS situation, the advantages that a 12 point crafter will enjoy over a 10 point crafter is no big deal when compared to the effects of resource quality. In fact it would be safe to say those two extra points are almost window dressing that a veteran WS could set thier sights on after they have acheived all else.
The gap that most of the point 10 WS are complaining about is not caused by tapes. It comes from resources. An older smith will have resources from half a year ago to work for them, a 3 month old smith just wont be able to make weapons of the same quality, even if they had 12 points and the 6 month smith had 10.
I can even give you an interesting example. As most of you know I only make heavies, munitions and melee. Extra points are lot more important for these weapons than they are for firearms. The charges on heavies are a primary attribute for customers, just like damage and speed are for a gun. Charges relate directly to how many extra points you have to spend. In my whole career of selling heavies I have always only had 10 points, and I have never once felt threatened by a 12 point smith. It always came down to resources in the end.
I kinda get the feeling that this SEA thing is based more around smiths wanting to be the best and wanting it to be as easy as possible. How is that fair to the players who put in 6 months? If you can't see this then think about the following. How long have you been working on WS? Now halve that time. Now think about a player who has only spent that halved time frame on WS, but who can do everything you can just as good, maybe even better.
However I do agree that the current loot drop system is messed up. It is AFK campable, and any loot system that is AFK campable is messed up. I'd like to see a fix to this for sure.
What I dont think would be a good idea is to make SEA easier to get, such as player craftable items. Doing this would mean that soon after a smith reached master, they would have thier extra 2 points. Wouldn't that be extremely boring? What would be left to strive for? Resource collecting is not a good goal. It will take you atleast 3 months no matter what. It's a no brainer, so where is the fun in that? The tapes give something you can plan for, something you can work at and use your head to get them faster. No, you don't just go camp the loot spot. If thats the way you play the game then crafting is going to get very old very fast, try something else.
I'm still gathering my tapes, I have about 16 points now after 2 months searching in my free time. I traded things for them, bought them on auctions, got given one or two, did favors or bulk jobs for some. All together it was quite a quest. Soon as they fix the skill tape bugs I'll be able to enjoy my rewards. The best thing was I never did anything non-weaponsmith-like to get them. I thought the trials to get my tapes was a great compliment to the proffesion.
The thing is when you are standing at the point where you are faced with the challenge of getting your tapes you can do one of two things. You can accept the challenge, or you can cry "Nerf them! Nerf them!" at the devs. I seem to remember a large amount of jedi-wanna-be players having to make a similar choice right before they introduced holocrons.
-Soar
That being said I think this is kind of a silly thing to be worried about, and is a far cry from "tearing at the threads of the player community." Looking at the WS situation, the advantages that a 12 point crafter will enjoy over a 10 point crafter is no big deal when compared to the effects of resource quality. In fact it would be safe to say those two extra points are almost window dressing that a veteran WS could set thier sights on after they have acheived all else.
The gap that most of the point 10 WS are complaining about is not caused by tapes. It comes from resources. An older smith will have resources from half a year ago to work for them, a 3 month old smith just wont be able to make weapons of the same quality, even if they had 12 points and the 6 month smith had 10.
I can even give you an interesting example. As most of you know I only make heavies, munitions and melee. Extra points are lot more important for these weapons than they are for firearms. The charges on heavies are a primary attribute for customers, just like damage and speed are for a gun. Charges relate directly to how many extra points you have to spend. In my whole career of selling heavies I have always only had 10 points, and I have never once felt threatened by a 12 point smith. It always came down to resources in the end.
I kinda get the feeling that this SEA thing is based more around smiths wanting to be the best and wanting it to be as easy as possible. How is that fair to the players who put in 6 months? If you can't see this then think about the following. How long have you been working on WS? Now halve that time. Now think about a player who has only spent that halved time frame on WS, but who can do everything you can just as good, maybe even better.
However I do agree that the current loot drop system is messed up. It is AFK campable, and any loot system that is AFK campable is messed up. I'd like to see a fix to this for sure.
What I dont think would be a good idea is to make SEA easier to get, such as player craftable items. Doing this would mean that soon after a smith reached master, they would have thier extra 2 points. Wouldn't that be extremely boring? What would be left to strive for? Resource collecting is not a good goal. It will take you atleast 3 months no matter what. It's a no brainer, so where is the fun in that? The tapes give something you can plan for, something you can work at and use your head to get them faster. No, you don't just go camp the loot spot. If thats the way you play the game then crafting is going to get very old very fast, try something else.
I'm still gathering my tapes, I have about 16 points now after 2 months searching in my free time. I traded things for them, bought them on auctions, got given one or two, did favors or bulk jobs for some. All together it was quite a quest. Soon as they fix the skill tape bugs I'll be able to enjoy my rewards. The best thing was I never did anything non-weaponsmith-like to get them. I thought the trials to get my tapes was a great compliment to the proffesion.
The thing is when you are standing at the point where you are faced with the challenge of getting your tapes you can do one of two things. You can accept the challenge, or you can cry "Nerf them! Nerf them!" at the devs. I seem to remember a large amount of jedi-wanna-be players having to make a similar choice right before they introduced holocrons.
-Soar
Message Edited by Soar on 03-17-2004 06:35 PM
MadcowwithSARS
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:36 pm
#25
im trying to figure out why people call a change that helps the majority while only inconveniencing the minorty a nerf.try learning a new term the word nerf is getting really over used and in all the wrong contexts.have you ever heard of enhancment?or maybe equalization?probably not.
if you have ever visited a place were there is nothing but AFK loot campers sitting at the bottom,and your there legit to kill stuff and loot.it gets anoying when you messege a CSR and they say there is more important things than AFK loot campers.
if you have ever visited a place were there is nothing but AFK loot campers sitting at the bottom,and your there legit to kill stuff and loot.it gets anoying when you messege a CSR and they say there is more important things than AFK loot campers.
RaccaBoo
Wed Mar 17, 2004 9:57 pm
#26
darknacht wrote:then put the ability to earn +2 under the -strictest- of controls whereby an EQ-style quest is required to obtain the distinction
This is what my post was too. I'm not even talking about the player crafted crap some of you are.
The original poster says here that he want's to make obtaining +2 rarer than it is now.