Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Are stockless flamethrowers the norm?
CMYK wrote:
Just out of curiosity, has anyone hard about a 1.0 speed flamer?
Ybagi wrote:
I added the player speed mod for flamerthrower of 45 based on the formula at: http://killyourpc.org/swg/speedguide.html
Nonstocked Stocked
Unsliced DPS268.28266.67
35% DMG slice362.18360.00
15% DMG slice308.53306.67
35% Speed slice412.74410.26
15% Speed slice315.63313.73
Doh! who knew that bracket was important!
Message Edited by Ybagi on 12-22-2004 10:02 AM
It seems to me that your formula is based off of "auto attack", this formula would be correct if it weren't the huge delay in flame cone attacks, these delays make a speed sliced flamer have a much higher DPS over the mere DPS of auto attack considering that flame cone regularly hits for 10k damage or more.
I was a long time commando before I became a Master Weaponsmith, andI can say with confidence that a speed sliced flamer will out DPS a damage flamer without question.
Ybagi wrote:
This DPS calculator doesn't have the commando specials, but you can put the weapon stats and the professions delay modifier in to see how it will effect the specials, stocked vs. non stocked was almost exactly the same with non stocked having a slight edge same as the auto attack.
the speed on a 1.5-2.0 flamer is almost twice as fast for flamecone as a 4.7-5.0, with the damage being +-10k for the speed sliced and +-14k for a damage sliced 10k*2=20k 14k*1=14k
have a commando friend spam flamecone on something (big) 5 times with a speed slicedthen a base speed flamer and have him look through the combat logs to give theexact time between attacks and the average damage. that DPS calculator doesn't take into account the dalay that flamcone puts into an attack (it actualy adds time from using it)
ofim wrote:
Ybagi wrote:
This DPS calculator doesn't have the commando specials, but you can put the weapon stats and the professions delay modifier in to see how it will effect the specials, stocked vs. non stocked was almost exactly the same with non stocked having a slight edge same as the auto attack.
the speed on a 1.5-2.0 flamer is almost twice as fast for flamecone as a 4.7-5.0, with the damage being +-10k for the speed sliced and +-14k for a damage sliced 10k*2=20k 14k*1=14k
have a commando friend spam flamecone on something (big) 5 times with a speed slicedthen a base speed flamer and have him look through the combat logs to give theexact time between attacks and the average damage. that DPS calculator doesn't take into account the dalay that flamcone puts into an attack (it actualy adds time from using it)
That DPS calcualtor does add the time delay of the specials...
you should list the damages on the flamethrowers you are comparing because your speed one looks like either an insanely enhanced flamer or a fairy tale. and your slow one looks rather slow and definity doesn't have a speed slice on it.
I think you misunderstand what we are talking about here, we are comparing stocked vs non-stocked, both with speed slices
The speed on a sliced stocked vs non stocked is going to be 2.9 vs. 3.1 ish not 1.5 vs. 5.0
If you compare a 35%speed sliced Krayt flamethrower with a formfitted stock to a 15% damagesliced stocked flamethrower, I wonder which one will be better. 
ofim wrote:
misunderstanding on my part
the accuracy gained from the stock is irrelevent to a master commando anyway you cut it, it's really insignificant to the better (even if only slightly better) speed. If you're worried about the accuracy of your flamers you would be better served by using a scope. the .2xx-.3xx that a stock adds makes it much harder to get 2.7-3.0 speed slices. Master commando's really aren't as inaccurate as people think...it's when someone "dabbles" with only the flamer tree that they are extreamely inaccurate. not to mention that the 40 damage that it adds onto a 850 damage weapon will most likely go unnoticed.
a 4.7 flamer can hit 3.0 @35%
a 4.3 flamer can hit 2.7 @35%
a 4.7 flamer can hit 3.2 @30%
a 4.3 flamer can hit 3.0 @30%
the 4.3 flamer can hit the better speed area much easier making for more weapons with those numbers allowing you to command a higher price for more of your weapons making you more profit.
I'm not sure what your point is, but you keep coming in here posting clearly incorrect information possibly confusing people reading this.
Flamethrowers do not use scopes, people in this thread have stated that flamethrowers are inaccurate and the best way to make up for this is speed, to me this means that any accuracy will help but may not be a primary concern.
The difference between stock and no stock unsliced is .3 seconds not .4 in your example(0.274 on the ones I'm using but it rounds to 0.3 on the weapon)
The higher the slice, the greater the benefit of a slower weapon so I don't understand why your 4.3 gets a .3 speed increase while your 4.7 only gets a .2 over the same range.
To exagerate the point for you, consider a d18 pistol at 1.6 speed unsliced, with a 35% speed slice, this will end up at 1.0 speed; a 0.6 gain for a fast weapon. now a slow weapon, a T21 at 7.4 speed, with a 35% speed slice on this weapon you will get 4.8 speed; a 2.6 speed gain for a slow weapon. The slower the weapon, the greater the benefit of the speed slice.
The profession speed modifier also has the same effect giving a greater bonus for slower weapons.
These two together almost completely compensate for the decreased speed of the stock.
Ybagi wrote:
ofim wrote:
misunderstanding on my part
the accuracy gained from the stock is irrelevent to a master commando anyway you cut it, it's really insignificant to the better (even if only slightly better) speed. If you're worried about the accuracy of your flamers you would be better served by using a scope. the .2xx-.3xx that a stock adds makes it much harder to get 2.7-3.0 speed slices. Master commando's really aren't as inaccurate as people think...it's when someone "dabbles" with only the flamer tree that they are extreamely inaccurate. not to mention that the 40 damage that it adds onto a 850 damage weapon will most likely go unnoticed.
a 4.7 flamer can hit 3.0 @35%
a 4.3 flamer can hit 2.7 @35%
a 4.7 flamer can hit 3.2 @30%
a 4.3 flamer can hit 3.0 @30%
the 4.3 flamer can hit the better speed area much easier making for more weapons with those numbers allowing you to command a higher price for more of your weapons making you more profit.
I'm not sure what your point is, but you keep coming in here posting clearly incorrect information possibly confusing people reading this.
Flamethrowers do not use scopes, people in this thread have stated that flamethrowers are inaccurate and the best way to make up for this is speed, to me this means that any accuracy will help but may not be a primary concern.
The difference between stock and no stock unsliced is .3 seconds not .4 in your example(0.274 on the ones I'm using but it rounds to 0.3 on the weapon)
The higher the slice, the greater the benefit of a slower weapon so I don't understand why your 4.3 gets a .3 speed increase while your 4.7 only gets a .2 over the same range.
To exagerate the point for you, consider a d18 pistol at 1.6 speed unsliced, with a 35% speed slice, this will end up at 1.0 speed; a 0.6 gain for a fast weapon. now a slow weapon, a T21 at 7.4 speed, with a 35% speed slice on this weapon you will get 4.8 speed; a 2.6 speed gain for a slow weapon. The slower the weapon, the greater the benefit of the speed slice.
The profession speed modifier also has the same effect giving a greater bonus for slower weapons.
These two together almost completely compensate for the decreased speed of the stock.
The point is that I WAS A MASTER COMMANDO FOR MANY MANY MOONS, Commando's like fast flamers....it's just the way it is.
Secondly..the numbers i posted above are USING A CALCULATOR.....you know how to use one ....right?
My flamers are 4.3 base, sense the game uses fractions I would assume that alot of WS would actualy get 4.7 with a stock from the fractions....even if not, it's common to get 4.7 as a result when using stocks. as for them not using scopes.....simple mistake
the faster flamer will sell faster and for more credits no matter what, if you wan't to waste your time finding that out......be my guest, you asked for our opinion, we gave it.
