Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: may 10th crafting
Actually.....
Old-Old System = the one used from the beginning of the game until ten days ago
Old System = The one that's been used for the last ten days
New System = A hybrid of the old and old-old
As I understand it the old-old system used 0-1000 and virtually ignored caps, the old system used strict cap limits (eg, 600-650) and the new system uses 0 and the top cap limit (eg. 0-650). Taking an averagestat in this example of 625, the old-old system gave 62.5%, the old system gave 50% and the new system gives 96%, so I see this as a good thing (even although it renders everything I've done post-CU as crap).
Anyone else get that too?
HoopR wrote:
JediNg wrote:
This system has been in since CU. It's just being made public now.
Ritha is correct, this system has been in place since the CU went live. Anyone who has crafted weapons post-CU requiring resources with typically low stats in a category (Conductivity with Polonium/Plumbum Iron, UT for Desh Copper, pick your poison...) knows this already.
The fact that SOE has chosen to publicize it now is just confusing people, but for us, nothing has changed in the post-CU landscape.
please mate , read it carefully before posting , we are well aware that there has been a new system in place since the cu, and as of today we have a even newer one. (and no its not the old precu system back again hurlobacca , old system never used the gate of specific res, only the generic iron or copper ect )
Message Edited by Willbaby on 05-10-2005 05:04 AM
yes, may 10 is the New-new system
Willbaby wrote:
HoopR wrote:
JediNg wrote:
This system has been in since CU. It's just being made public now.
Ritha is correct, this system has been in place since the CU went live. Anyone who has crafted weapons post-CU requiring resources with typically low stats in a category (Conductivity with Polonium/Plumbum Iron, UT for Desh Copper, pick your poison...) knows this already.
The fact that SOE has chosen to publicize it now is just confusing people, but for us, nothing has changed in the post-CU landscape.
please mate , read it carefully before posting , we are well aware that there has been a new system in place since the cu, and as of today we have a even newer one. (and no its not the old precu system back again hurlobacca , old system never used the gate of specific res, only the generic iron or copper ect )
Message Edited by Willbaby on 05-10-2005 05:04 AM
The way I understand it, I agree with Alita. I would call it the Old/New/Newer systems. My question is, does it actually affect the stats of the weapons, or is it just a visual display? If you used 70 conductivity Plumbum, does the game just use the number when itcalculated the weapon stats(70/1000 = 7%) , or does it use the % of max number (70/82 = 85.4%)?
I think the first case would still be useful, letting you know at glance if you've got the rightresource in a particular slot, and it wouldn't change anything. Thesecond casemeansmy inventory is shot =(
Echo
Kauri
here is a phrase you should all get to know... those of you in any sort of IT capacity probably know it by heart.
"No good deed goes unpunished."
I really dont see this as an 'about face' from a previous change. My impression of what happened was a developer conceptually realized that some resources like plumbum iron and rhodium steel have been penalizing us since the beginning despite the fact that the schematic calls for them by name. In an attempt at fairness they rolled out Relativity Part 1 to make the resources stop penalizing you for a conductivity cap of 85. However in doing so they used a system whereby the system was based on its minimum and maximum cap. Without realizing this, steel often has min-max ranges of less than 100 on many of its stats like in the example they gave. In a random number generating system being just 5 points off could penalize you forever. As WS we use so few resources we could easily obtain a 30k kit and be back in business but what about the other crafters who have to use 30k and even 120k of resources for a single item? They will forever be doomed to 20% experimentation maximums in a system such as that. So they rolled out Relativity Part 2 and now the resources are weighted as relative to their maximum value ignoring the minimum.
This isnt a change to just crafting as it pertains to WS. This is a global crafting change as it pertains to all crafting professions. While you may see this as just more work, to many others it is the difference between not crafting because working forever just to reach 35% was completely non-rewarding, to re-injecting life back into their art. It may be less than realistic but it accomplishes the original intent yet keeps crafting fun when you burn through resources so fast that 'collecting' the best of the best is never a possibility.
No good deed goes unpunished.
john_p wrote:Hmm components are certainly coming out differenly post patch .. I'm getting better stats with the same resources+exp pointsAnyone finding this?
Yes. I did some tests this morning.
I had done some experiments with power hammers to check resource calculations. With the pre-CU calculation, 952 Kammris was very good; with the CU calculation, 952 Kammris was not very good; with this morning's newest patch, 952 Kammris was back to very good.
Crafting
- Crafting weapons will now grant the appropriate General or Weapon Crafting XP.
- Fixed the way resources are evaluated when used in crafting. Under the old system, a resource's final value for an attribute was the position its rating had between the minimum and maximum possible attribute value for any resource that could go into that slot. Now, it is only relative to the maximum. This will generally improve the value of all resources, especially high-end resources which have high minimum values, especially when used in slots that have very strict requirements. So, for example, assume Frobozium steel has a toughness range from 750-850, and also assume that this steel is being used in a slot which specifically requires Frobozium steel. Under the old system, a particular frobozium steel with a toughness of 800 was considered 50% tough. Under the new system, it will be 94% tough (800 / 850). This change is now also reflected in the visual toolbar.
- Food and drink components should now show up under the 'Component' sub-menu of the crafting tool and you should no longer be given the option to consume food or drink components.
Guess what! I logged this a.m. to find that the appropriate xp for general and weapon crafting is approximately 2xp per resource used. Have fun trying to grind out FS crafting experience.
WOO-HOO!! Go SOE!! You have my vote of confidence. Are you trying to get rid of all weaponsmiths so all weapons will become loot-based?
Message Edited by ProdigalKnight on 05-10-2005 10:42 AM
Vade_WS wrote:
john_p wrote:
Hmm components are certainly coming out differenly post patch .. I'm getting better stats with the same resources+exp points
Anyone finding this?
Yes. I did some tests this morning.
I had done some experiments with power hammers to check resource calculations. With the pre-CU calculation, 952 Kammris was very good; with the CU calculation, 952 Kammris was not very good; with this morning's newest patch, 952 Kammris was back to very good.
Good to here. Since I only picked up WS after CU. I've just started playing around with Resources to see how things worked. I had noticed that some resources were limited by there stats and am glad to see that they've done something about it.
Although alot of stockpiled High End resources may now be less useful.
They still examine the max stat cap for the resource in question, and use a 1 for the min stat cap instead. I wrote a proposal for this change last week and to be honest, I'm surprised they actually implemented this.
I personally was fine with evaluating resources based only on the stat caps, but the way the change was originally snuck in really stunk. The new change is less damaging to WS and may help newer Smiths to compete, which is a good goal.
Of course, I wouldn't put it past them to revert back to the min-max evaluation.
Willbaby wrote:
(and no its not the old precu system back again hurlobacca , old system never used the gate of specific res, only the generic iron or copper ect )
Message Edited by Willbaby on 05-10-200505:04 AM
You missed my point entirely. I'm well aware that the old system never used the gate of a specific resource, that's why I referred to 150/1000 Polonium as a 57.5% resource, but in the context of available Polonium it was a 100% resource as it had the highest possible values. The formula that determined the max possible damage on a T21 took into account the fact that Polonium was gated, or if it's easier for you to understand, you could say that Polonium was gated at the level it was in order for the crafting results to conform to the predetermined maximum result.
I always got a chuckle out of people complaining that we need better plumbum or polonium or whatever to get better results, as if the limitations on those resources weren't put there for a purpose. The new system throws those folks a bone but in reality doesn't enable you to make better weapons.
It's impossible to make an accurate comparison between the old and new resource valuation systems because weapons have changed so you can't do a side-by-side comparison. One thing I know for sure is that if you had the best available resources pre-CU, you were probably getting close to the max on your weapons and the same thing is true now in the current system. I do agree that modifying the system to it's current form was good as that system was rendering some of our best resources useless.
EEMAN wrote:
any of you old enough to remember the Old Coke, New Coke, Coca-Cola Classic days?
I suppose this is a measure to make the resources that used to be the best still good, albeit not the best. rhodium is still going to weigh heavily on cond whereas you never ever had to look at cond pre CU right?
after reading it a third time It dawned on me how much the postCU system hurt AS more than anyone. As WS our resource requirements are fairly low albeit unique and extensive in the number of named resources. I am still sitting on rare resources that have not been bested since week 7 of game release (August 2003). Considering how much resources go into armor and how rarely resources hit their max in terms of steel's that are already high in general, this would create a condition where armor would be good initially and everything balanced against good armor.. followed by decades of armor at a fraction of what the system got balanced against.I was also worrying how the post CU system would impact SW who, speaking for myself, always used good but not great resources in chassis because 1) insane resource quantities and 2) using average 500 stats produced close to the same results as using 900's. It made no sense burning up large amount of higher priced resources to gain less than 1k mass. The post CU crafting system seemed to really hurt this area but I never saw much feedback on the subject, possibly because ROTW has SW complaining about entirely different issues like replacing crafters with NPC's to give out the most sought after items.Message Edited by EEMAN on 05-10-2005 07:52 AM
I agree. Even those that bought stuff and used 30k resource kits will still have the best resources under the new-new system. They won't be as great a % greater than the lower stuff however.