Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: REMOVE AP1 from Jawa Ion Rifle
I'm just trying to prove a point here that the jawa ion rifle is in fact overpowered, if not, than i want my tangle pistols with ap1 and kraytable, and same thing goes for my stun baton, give it ap1 able to use looted components on it.
Make it so that i can spam a health hit on whatevertype ofcomp and do enough damage to kill in 3 shots since it would be ap1, that sounds fair right?
Anyways i'm glad i could get some feedback from the correspondant, as it is very hard to take a flaming weaponsmith seriously when talking about pvp.....theyre weaponsmiths, not fighters, try out a lot of pvp and notice the most common way you die and see people get killed, and the most common pvp templates. That would have to be rifleman with their ion rifles, and tkm with their kd+dizzy, which started this whole tkm/rifleman bandwagon, its not verydifficult to understand as a pvper.
If someone finds that as a better solution that fine by me, but i dont think soe would agree to change two other weapons for the overpowerness of one weapons, just isnt logical. Complaining that this is a bad idea because of sales (lol) is not a valid excuse btw, if tangles/batons had ap1 they would be just as popular.
And yes composite does need weaknessess, and it already has it, its called stun damage, which i dont propose be changed at all so i dont know why people fall off their rockerwhen they hear the idea of the ap on a weapon being changed, aweapon that cuurentlyslices thru comp like a hot knife in butter.
I specifcally did not mention my armor orignally because i didnt want to talk about how good it was or the fact that i use stun layers in some of my armor, i wanted to talk about how because ion rifles are both sutn damage AND ap1, it makes armor, even with stun layers, almost completely negligible.
Fact- Jawa ion rifle is overpowered
Fact-Jawa ion rifle will be nerfed eventually in one form or another, whether people like it or not.
With that said its in the best interest of the people posting here to come up with a viable solution to the weapon, i dont care about stun vuln on comp, i care about he fact that your wearing a helmet to disadvantage, so what take off helm so they can headshot with a t21?? I think not.
CannabiCannibanoid wrote:Fact- Jawa ion rifle is overpowered
Fact- Jawa ion rifle will be nerfed eventually in one form or another, whether people like it or not.
Niether one of these is fact. The first is your opinion. An opinion not shared by many others. The second is not a fact, it is a conclusion drawn from an opinion.
To be overpowered the Jawa would need to be the best weapon in all circumstances. Is it? No. A Laser or a T21 is better in PVE. A T21 is better against an unarmored opponent. The Jawa is a situational gun. It is the best weapon available to any class for the cretain situation. Rifleman pay for this weapon with weak special effects(No KD) and poor special effect resistances.
In the end, there will always be a best PVP weapon. Will you cry nerf everytime?
BTW, you can beat a rifleman by knocking him down. He has no knockdown resists from the rifleman profession.
You are getting flamed because you came here whining. Honestly, tell me how many times since you have started playing this game have you been killed by a Jawa Ion Rifle? I pvp a lot with my other toon and I have yet to be killed by one. Just because you have composite armor does not mean you should be impervious to all forms of attacks.
Go post this crap in another forum..The weaponsmith forum is not a platform for you to post whines..its a place for weaponsmiths to discuss real problems, issues, and ideas that pertain to our profession.
I can hardly believe I wasted my time reading this. He can't believe he is getting flamed for such a rediculous suggestion? This is one of those guys that thinks he has all the answers, and is shocked to find out that not everyone agrees with him. Someone posted that it is just sour grapes, he thought he was uber l337 d00d with his armor, and finds out that mommy can't protect him against everything.
Aside from that, realize that rifleman doesn't exactly make the bes PvP class to begin with. Sure you can kite, but you can do that with pistols and carbines too, with much greater speed and accuracy. Rifles should be a more powerful, if slower, weapon. Higher end rifles should have AP properties. Perhaps you should start another thread to nerf Republic Blasters. "A pistol with AP?!?! My god! We can't have noobs running around with those!".
Logix wrote:
LemyDaBigHairyWookie wrote:
with the way the resists on armor currently work anything under 26% effectiveness is better LEFT at a vulnerability... Armor piercing doesn't currently work against vulnerable armor damage types...
Exactly what Lemy said.
If your Composite has 4% Stun Effectiveness or whatever, you are actually taking more damage than you think.
Why? If you have any amount of effectiveness, the AP1 damage bonus of the Jawa Ion kicks in. If you're completely vulnerable (no protection against Stun), the game reads the Jawa Ion as AP0 and thus it is granted no damage bonus.
So if your argument is that most people can't afford high-end Composite with Stun resist -- it's full of holes. You'reprobably better off being vulnerable to Stun unless you can get a significantly high Stun resist suit.
That aside, I do think your argument about the Jawa Ion being Krayt-capable has merit. The Tangle Pistol significantly lacks DPS in comparison to the Jawa Ion and it can't even be Krayt'd. Worseso, Carbineers have no viable alternative at all to high-end Composite. That said, the answer should not be to nerf Jawa Ions entirely. 80% Composite should not have to rule the game, it needs to have a weakness.
Message Edited by Logix on 01-17-2004 07:40 AM
I am a little confused. The jawa has AP1 and composite has AR1. So wouldn't composite with 5% be better than a vulnerability? I mean as it stand now, a jawa shooting at a vulnerable piece of armor will do the dmg as stated in the combat window. So add stun resist of 5% and the vulnerability goes away, but AP1 doesn't go through AR1 for a bonus. Wouldn't the dmg in the combat window now be 5% more than what floats above the target's head (actual dmg)?
Someone please clear this up for me?
""""Jawa ion rifle has become a big problem as its a weapon that composite doesnt normally protect against, although you can get stun layered armor, but consdering the fact that the rifle is ap1 it makes the 4-30% very negligible and for some reason has of late become very popular with a simple strategy of kiting while master headshot with ion rifle to any armored target, stun layered or not.
Removing AP1 from ion rifle would significantly reduce the PvP effectiveness of the rifle as an own all weapon so that rifleman would not be so overpowering from max range, aside from the fact that theyre gonna keep running away to get their ideal range.
One other problem is that the ion rifle is THE ONLY stun weapon able to use krayt tissues or any lootable component, making a rifleman with some good tissues able to have the most effective pvp weapon imaginable, all other stun weapons arent half as effective with their provided profession, whens the last time you saw the 'best pvpers' using tangles and stun batons.
I realize that this is just now becoming popular which is completely beyond me as it has always been like this, rifleman were too busy focusing and whats wrong with their profession when they cant focus on what good about their prof, because i've had just as much intention to use a stun weapon but none of the others come close to the effectiveness.
Something that needs to be dealt with.""""
cannabi I AGREE WITH YOU!!!!! lol for once.
its overpowerd for shure. I dont mind tka/riflean to much, but what about one with a krayt jawa ion rifle?!
BESIDES ITS A ION RIFLE!!!! A JAWA DROID OWNER! not a peaple killer.
its not suposed to be used on peaple.
Now i'm not trying to offend anybody when i say this, but i cant stress this enough that no one herepossibly pvps enough if they cant say ion rifle is overpowered in the least.
Every single person here needs to try and fight a master rifleman whos headshotting you with a rifle that does more damage than any other weapon in the game if you are armored. Now whats so hard to believe that a gun that does far more damage to a target than any other weaponis not overpowered.
People dont seem to be understanding this in the least, theres absolutely no problem that it does stun damage, its the fact that it has ap1 on top of that, does 2-3 times more damage than any other stun weapon, and master rifleman can nearly speed cap specials with it. And then theres the fact that it can be krayted and made to insane damages. Obviously no here has heard of ions getting up to 400-600 dmg.
Every seasoned pvper i know agrees its overpowered, every rifleman i know, and including my weaponsmithwith 12 exp pts and the experience to be able to say the same thing.
This rifle is going to get nerfed in one way or another like i said before, its just a matter of how, and so far not a single person has said anything of value besides the correspondant.
The TKM/rifleman has become the bandwagon on the valcyn server, with every rifleman carrying an ion rifle, dont believe me? go to the popular pvp areas and find out yourself. And with the 2.5 melee penalty its adding even more problems.
Obviously this was the wrong boards to go to since as much weapons as everybody here makes, they dont seem to know the least about their pvp effectives, kinda sad. But i will come back to bump this thread when the ion rifles get toned down, so dont forget.
BTW Logix i dont visit this board much but this is by far the cockiest, ill mannered, and inconstructive boards on the site, and instantly label me as flammable because i dont make weapons, yet i've been on both dealing and recieving end of guns far more than any weaponsmithis going to sitting by a crafting station running factories all day.