Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: So whats the problem with the Decay Kit?
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SlaserX
Fri Feb 11, 2005 7:13 pm
#14
BruSwillis wrote:
Weasel-Master wrote:
Now add in anti decay kits.
My name was Average Joe master WS, I no longer have any repeat business as my usual customers don't need to buy another grinding / everyday weapon as they can now use their uber ones without losing condition and grind faster / do what ever it is they do without the need to buy replacements. My steady trade and small business has been nuked. I have decided that this game is no longer for me as a casual crafter as people no longer require to use my services
This is the worst arguement yet. 99% of all the people who have these kits and are using them on weapons (not all are, many are using them on AA skill plated armour/clothing etc) are using them on their very best weapons. Maybe the odd couple will use them on grinding weapons but this number will be so small it will not make any noticable effect on anyones weapon sales.
Allready it is VERY apparant that peoples Jedi will use these on their sabers to protect their expensive pearls and crystals.
Added to the fact that come the CU all weapons will be viable and many new weapons are being added. This is a typical scream about nothing and the greedy are scaremongering.
Ignore jedis. Considering their population isnt even 2% of the total population, I dont think we need to factor them into our equations (outliars get kicked off the graph). Btw, it's not working in sabers right now anyways...
Ignore the CU, that's not for a long time. We know very very little about the CU, the weapons, their implementations, etc.
Now then, for your saying that was the stupidest argument... you would be foolish to speak so quick. What would be the point of going to a non 12-point, non established weaponsmith? There would be *NO* point. If you can get a great weapon from a 12 point,freeze it in time, then what do you have to worry about? It is overall better... you can afford the extra money, seeing as to how you will be saving at least that much with the amount of weapons you're NOT buying.
Consider this scenario: A few days back, I made up 4 nyms enhanced VKs for a guildie, threw in some decent +26 enhancers, and threw them up on his vendor. He gladly took them, and promptly got a 35% damage slice on his VK. Now then... he has a nice 220+ damage VK, why would he NOT use his kit on it? He now has an awesome weapon, he will never ever ever buy another enhanced VK from me again. There is no reason to!
Now my situation: I'm a master swordsman (I'm not $%$^$^@$^ rich so I'm not speedcapped). I like to use a nice speed sliced, high damage scythe (handcrafted by yours truly). I've easily done over 200+ integ damage to that badboy... this is why I have 4 of them right now. This forces me to actually become active in buying/trading for scythe schems so I can keep a weapon in my hands. If I had an ADK, I'd throw it in my best one and never worry about it again. Why would I use my PH? The only time I use that is when I'm fighting NS with 100% kin resist. I do most of my fighting in the geos, and in the graveyard.. so there's no real reason for me to worry about damaging my PH (which has a nice speed slice on it too). I can easily make those and not worry about schems, etc. I've done maybe 50 damage to mine in the past month. That's just me though... I would be buying scythes almost weekly from WS's if I wasnt one myself. That is ALOT of money that would dry up. I'm sure I'm not the only non-speedcapped swordie out there, so this is a pretty good explanation on why this item is a *bad* thing.
SlaserX
Fri Feb 11, 2005 9:52 pm
#15
IstecOha wrote:
ana-mo-cara wrote:
Legendary and exceptional loot weapons. These are weapons far in advance of anything a crafter could make in a million years. Stuff you like 3k max damage T21s.
Most players will only use one weapon anyway. A bounty hunter that hunts creatures for example will only use a llc ninety percent of the time. Infinite life means no new llcs need be bought.
The problem is that weaponsmiths depend on return business. We need players to come buy replacement gear for when something has finally decayed completely. This is ninety nine percent of a weaponsmiths business. Without it a weaponsmith cannot generate signifigant profit.
So even if these kits decrease sales by 30 percent across the board. We can expect that this will do alot of harm to weaponsmiths. P.S. this is a generous point of view. With one kit my bh can now go for months without buying new weapons. All I need do is rely heavy on one weapon. My personal fealings is it will reduce sales by 60 percent. That means some weaponsmiths will be forced to quit weaponsmithing, and before you smile you may be one of those smiths that loses out.
Ehhh LLC 90% of the time? I dont rember using my LLC 90% of the time alyways had a full arsenal of wepons with any posible damge type and switched them out regulary during a hunt depending on type of resisits and type of huntin.
That's his style of fighting... and he likely has a nice krayt LLC or some such thing, so why use a weaker slower weapon?
EdOWar
Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:48 am
#16
1) Not everyone has an Exceptional/Legendary weapon...in fact, most people don't even have really uber crafted weapons
2) The ADKs are concentrating in the hands of a few players. The wealthiest players will be able to buy enough ADK's to equip all their best weapons, and their armor to boot.
3) Each ADK is one per account, ever. So each ADK sold to one of the above wealthy players means there'sonenoreplayer who no longer has an ADK to use for themselves.
4) Players are selling their ADKs for millions upon millions of credits. For many of these players this may very well be the first time they've had so much money to spend. What do you think they're going to do with that money? Put it in a Christmas savings account? Hell no, they're going to go out and buy stuff. And they won't have an ADK of their own anymore, so their weapons WILL decay.
In the end, a few wealthy players will be able to get their hands on enough ADKs that they won't ever have to buy another weapon or piece of armor again. This isn't necessarily good, but their numbers will be very low, so the impact on the economy will be small.
I remember when JtL came out, everyone was up in arms that weaponsmiths were going to be left in the cold if we weren't allowed to craft ship weapons. But in the end it was the shipwrights left in the cold, and ground-based weapon sales still doing relatively well. Any drop in weapon sales is probably due more to the decline of server population than because of JtL. JtL wasn't the end of the world for weaponsmiths, and neither will ADKs.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis
Luzenit
Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:15 am
#17
1) Not everyone has an Exceptional/Legendary weapon...in fact, most people don't even have really uber crafted weapons. There are still far more looted weapons that exceed crafter made stats. The drive to have a great looted weapon to place an ADK on will be even more evident. The drive for superior, enhanced, 35% damage sliced weapons will still exist. With an ADK, why would a toon want anything else for the most part?
2) The ADKs are concentrating in the hands of a few players. The wealthiest players will be able to buy enough ADK's to equip all their best weapons, and their armor to boot. This should be even more of a concern to all players, just not crafters. This new elite, outfitted in perma armor and an array of perma weapons,will make an impact. Camping the big loot droppers with out any fear of decay by the new elite will be seen, and I am sure PvP will feel the effects as well.
3) Each ADK is one per account, ever. So each ADK sold to one of the above wealthy players means there'sonenoreplayer who no longer has an ADK to use for themselves. True, but there are many multiple accounts....more than you might think. There are those who are non-combatant as well, so they do not buy weapons, but their kits are outfitting those who want one or mutiples.
4) Players are selling their ADKs for millions upon millions of credits. For many of these players this may very well be the first time they've had so much money to spend. What do you think they're going to do with that money? Put it in a Christmas savings account? Hell no, they're going to go out and buy stuff. And they won't have an ADK of their own anymore, so their weapons WILL decay. If they buy weapons in the first place. The money for crafters maybe a blessing (especially in buying hi-CPU leathers and meats). Again, my concern is with the multiple kit holders and the effect on the game as a whole by a small, but powerful group.
In the end, a few wealthy players will be able to get their hands on enough ADKs that they won't ever have to buy another weapon or piece of armor again. This isn't necessarily good, but their numbers will be very low, so the impact on the economy will be small. One could only hope. While the numbers may be low, their impact on the game will be disporportionate. Those who have sparingly used uber weapons due to decay and now have a few ADKs will definitely come out swinging/firing on everything and anyone. Those beloved weapons saved for special PvP can now be used all the time camping uber loot drops. The rich will get far richer. This may effect the play oftoons trying to succeed in hunting and PvPing.
I think a no-drop/no trade ADK would have been nice and should have been implemented. With the need for mutliple weapons and armor coming up, a single ADK would have done little (if anything)to the economy and most of all, game play. Those armed to the teeth in kits are a different story.....it is an unfair advantage to the elite few. I doubt the Devs intended this. Weapons will still sell, but it will definitely shift a bit more to the best of the best of weapons.
ana-mo-cara
Sat Feb 12, 2005 10:14 am
#18
Actually I do not use a krayt llc for hunting. I use a stocked llc with a decent damage slice. I long ago figured out that an llc is not what you think it would be its a rifle. In other words you tag out with it and the improvement is obvious especially if you use a good scope on it. The thing is even without a special its going to do a decent bit of damage with a good damage slice I can just get my llc over a thousand. So I am usually hitting for 700 points I suppose, and if I use a special sometimes 5 or 6 k damage on a defenseless opponent. So even with fifty percent electric resists I am still hitting for 2500 to 3000 points of damage. I can literally cover up bad resists by the means of overwhelming power.
Thats why I say most BHs atleast dedicated bhs not the invest three doodz. Use an llc its natural range and its multiplier range are able to easily compensate for resists. In other words unless the enemy has a signifigant resist to electric I will not switch up to a scatter pistol. Its not a question of necassarily haveing something super uber its knowing how to use it.
I think the only things I do not use a llc on are like woolamanders and peko peko. So I would say I only default to a scatter 8 percent of the time, and for my carbines I use the cheapest cdef sliced and powered up 2 percent of the time. When I deam a sprayshot is called for. Then again my MBH is also a 3 line ch with medic. There isnt much I cannot handle in the way of game with that combination. I sick a level 42 rancor on in, and stand back with my llc.
BruSwillis
Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:26 pm
#19
*edit*
Never mind, im not getting drawn into this. I know you lot against this will not have the backing of anyone in game though.
Message Edited by BruSwillis on 02-12-2005 02:18 AM
BruSwillis
Sat Feb 12, 2005 2:08 pm
#20
ana-mo-cara wrote:
Thats why I say most BHs atleast dedicated bhs not the invest three doodz.
Actually, the dedicated BH use weapons in the carbine and pistol lines for their state effects. You must be a PvE BH which must be why you have come to the conclusions you have.
IstecOha
Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:30 pm
#21
ana-mo-cara wrote:
Actually I do not use a krayt llc for hunting. I use a stocked llc with a decent damage slice. I long ago figured out that an llc is not what you think it would be its a rifle. In other words you tag out with it and the improvement is obvious especially if you use a good scope on it. The thing is even without a special its going to do a decent bit of damage with a good damage slice I can just get my llc over a thousand. So I am usually hitting for 700 points I suppose, and if I use a special sometimes 5 or 6 k damage on a defenseless opponent. So even with fifty percent electric resists I am still hitting for 2500 to 3000 points of damage. I can literally cover up bad resists by the means of overwhelming power.
Thats why I say most BHs atleast dedicated bhs not the invest three doodz. Use an llc its natural range and its multiplier range are able to easily compensate for resists. In other words unless the enemy has a signifigant resist to electric I will not switch up to a scatter pistol. Its not a question of necassarily haveing something super uber its knowing how to use it.
I think the only things I do not use a llc on are like woolamanders and peko peko. So I would say I only default to a scatter 8 percent of the time, and for my carbines I use the cheapest cdef sliced and powered up 2 percent of the time. When I deam a sprayshot is called for. Then again my MBH is also a 3 line ch with medic. There isnt much I cannot handle in the way of game with that combination. I sick a level 42 rancor on in, and stand back with my llc.
Unless the acuracy of the LLC was uped since las jan then iam suprised anyone sees the LLC as valuble PVE weapon. The speed and accurasy mods that MBH gets from the carabine and pistol trees make the LLS DPS a joke. Doing 3k a pop is ok but doing 1.5k with a fire DOT, every secondis way better. Tough newr BH's proly are just used to the new system were they can take thier time killing stuff for ages with the big arse LLC.
IstecOha
Sat Feb 12, 2005 4:35 pm
#22
BruSwillis wrote:
ana-mo-cara wrote:
Thats why I say most BHs atleast dedicated bhs not the invest three doodz.
Actually, the dedicated BH use weapons in the carbine and pistol lines for their state effects. You must be a PvE BH which must be why you have come to the conclusions you have.
True and he is from the age of buffs, back in the day novice level mark would have wiped the sandy ground with him if he went LLC only. I remebr doing that at BH 0004 for my first mark, bearly made it out hehe
SlaserX
Sat Feb 12, 2005 5:50 pm
#23
BruSwillis wrote:
ana-mo-cara wrote:
Thats why I say most BHs atleast dedicated bhs not the invest three doodz.
Actually, the dedicated BH use weapons in the carbine and pistol lines for their state effects. You must be a PvE BH which must be why you have come to the conclusions you have.
Well consider the probability that those states will even stick, and consider how much those truly do in PvE.
ana-mo-cara
Sat Feb 12, 2005 6:04 pm
#24
Actually one of the original bhs on my server. Thats probabally why I am so confortable with a llc. I am used to the days of a ranged fighter actually haveing to tag out a ways to fight effectively. I suppose that also makes me less of a spam master as some players are. Actually I am going to lay some sick info on you.
The llc special mod is contrary to the ideal mod. So useing specials with an llc is highly inaccurate, but with a good scope and at ideal range. You can hit 3 of 5 times. If the creature is immobile and in place allowing me to be the save I can hit 4 out of 5 times.
P,S, Its actually quite rare that I am buffed pointing to the ch mentioned above. I can get by without buffs, but if I need buffs I usually drink some vasarian brandy with my medic added in and 440 stim bs. I am usually good to go.
The LLC aint squat in pvp that I will not argue I will only use a llc in pvp as a last resort. Such as maybe I will get lucky. Though in PVE the llc is increadibly effective if you know what your doing. You use the appropriate range and you let its natural damage edge do its thing. I even used it excluseively on npc missions too. I just love them you go up to the npc hit single two boom he is down. Infact the other npcs will not even react.
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