Weaponsmith Archive

I've done some more testing today and with the same three weapons.

I tried cycling between two then three different specials (headshot, torsoshot and headshot, torsoshot, ranged shot) just trying to replicate the highest possible damage output, given this is probably what I'd do when killing stuff normally. [Most of the other specials I have are state / KD etc so have left them out for now]

It was easy to check with two, the delay was always 3s between hits. With three it got a bit more complicated, since you were never sure if the button had queued up next or not, and ranged shot seems to do its own thing anyway.

Wonder howI can test this better..

I know the theory, but it doesn't yet seem to be bearing out in practice. I am thinking this is because I'm so near the weapon speed cap that an extra ~0.05s makes no difference when it comes to the combat log (whether this is because the game rounds it or because the combat log is only accurate to the nearest second, I guess we'll struggle to find out!)

guys have u ever thougth, combat aint about specials anymore and its all about the /attack? since i relised this i aint died or ever got low on action and my target dies so so so so so much quicker

specials should be specials, not every attack

Gifford:

That may be true in PvE, but whenPvPing its a little different - you want to hit as hard as possible, so your opponent doesnt have time to get up from aknockdown before your barrage oftorsoshot/critical shots hit. Its also important when you're trying to outdamage the healing of a jedi.

Weaponsmiths:

You need to think about powerups. I have a powerup that reduces my accuracy by 23, but makes my weapon 29% faster (Tactical Grip). When I stick thison my scatter pistol, my modified weapon speed is 0.86. This has 2 second delay in the combat log between spamming torso shot and advanced critical shot. I need to do some further testing with a 3rd attack to see if I can break the 2 second delay. If this delay doesn't change then the DPS calculation is misleading and I'd be better off with a gun that has its min/max and SAC experimented on.

My template is:

Smuggler 4-0-0-0

Master bounty hunter

Master pistoleer

Message Edited by Ajianna on 05-04-2005 02:34 PM

Can anybody test what the delay is when you use multiple specials from different "groups" back-to-back? Does it look like a delay that is based off of your weapon speed or is that also a fixed value like the cooldown?

If the delay is based off weapon speed or some kind of multiplier, then DPS is indeed important.

If the delay is a fixed time, weapon speed is practically irrelevant.

Well, from the Rifleman forum, there certainly seems to be diminishing returns on having over 100 rifle speed: Rifle Speed/acc etc AAs working???

John_p points out he has 110 rifle speed so this may be why he notices little point to DPS.

It would be helpful to compare his stats using 1) a weapon with very bad speed and then 2) a character with very little rifle speed.

In any case, I suspect not much will have changed from the pre-CU days: For the general public we'll focus on DPS and for masters or chars with specific needs, we'll make custom weapons.

I've been having my brother do some weapons testing for me while I'm stuck at work. (and because I'm a crafter who can barely wield a spoon)

He is master BH, master smuggler, pistoleer xxx4.

He tested spamming specials on an HC scatter pistol and a tangle pistol.

Scatter pistol base speed (with a pup) is 1.47 and his modded speed is 0.95.
Damage: 358-770 Estimated base DPS: 382.87 Modded DPS: 592.67

Pre-CU Tangle pistol base speed (no pup) is 2.83 and his modded speed is 1.83.
Damage: 258-575 Estimated base DPS: 147.25 Modded DPS: 227.94

Note his modded speed is nearly a full second higher.

He used repeated concussion shots with both.

He observed a 2 to 3 second difference in the cooldown recovery time between the two weapons (obviously the faster one recovering quicker).

What does this mean? Cooldown times are not fixed. They are related to the weapon speed. Though the difference may be very slight as one approaches the speed cap, this is significant in that it verifies that the speed of a weapon is not truly irrelevant after all, so DPS may not be as useless as some think.

(will continue asking him to test different combinations throughout the day)

i wouldnt be susprised if dps is just a calculatedfigurethat has no bearing on the weapon combat results

but im still standing on the basis that specials are to remain special, i understand the pvp aspect of this so i think there will emerge two types of weapons pve and pvp

pve being dps and pvp being high dmg and low sac

I'd be interested to know if there is a list of the special "groups" anywhere. Or can we assume that it's done per-profession? Hence Ranged Shot (a Marksman special) can stack alongside Head Shot (Rifleman) and Torso Shot (BH) .. ?

It seems that in most circustances DPS is the way to go. From your reports, the higher the damage the higher that damage is applied when using specials. The faster the weapon is the faster the weapon fires. The only time SAC comes into play is the time lost recovering from specials, but that can be mitigated by food. So it seems that DPS is the general damage your weapon does whether using specials or not.

Now we have to determine how to maximize damage potential. I can shoot "imp charge attack" while "imp. leg shot" is cooling, but if i wait 2 sec longer i can just fire leg shot again. So what is better? or does it not matter at all?

---

giffordgekko wrote:

i wouldnt be susprised if dps is just a calculatedfigurethat has no bearing on the weapon combat results

but im still standing on the basis that specials are to remain special, i understand the pvp aspect of this so i think there will emerge two types of weapons pve and pvp

pve being dps and pvp being high dmg and low sac

---

after a lot of crafting and discussions I am thinking this too. PvE vs PvP weapons, though I have had a couple Pistol-wielders who definately wanted a low SAC at the cost of some DPS...took another night of fiddling to find a happy medium, but oi! my notes are in a shambles

---

Amizar wrote:
I've been having my brother do some weapons testing for me while I'm stuck at work. (and because I'm a crafter who can barely wield a spoon)

He is master BH, master smuggler, pistoleer xxx4.

He tested spamming specials on an HC scatter pistol and a tangle pistol.

Scatter pistol base speed (with a pup) is 1.47 and his modded speed is 0.95.
Damage: 358-770 Estimated base DPS: 382.87 Modded DPS: 592.67

Pre-CU Tangle pistol base speed (no pup) is 2.83 and his modded speed is 1.83.
Damage: 258-575 Estimated base DPS: 147.25 Modded DPS: 227.94

Note his modded speed is nearly a full second higher.

He used repeated concussion shots with both.

He observed a 2 to 3 second difference in the cooldown recovery time between the two weapons (obviously the faster one recovering quicker).

What does this mean? Cooldown times are not fixed. They are related to the weapon speed. Though the difference may be very slight as one approaches the speed cap, this is significant in that it verifies that the speed of a weapon is not truly irrelevant after all, so DPS may not be as useless as some think.

(will continue asking him to test different combinations throughout the day)

---

Sorry but I've done the same kind of test fighting the gorax looking at shooting times for different weapons at different speeds using the same special attack. May I ask what the size of your sample was? From experience I can tell you the same weapon with the same special can have an attack speed that fluctuates. I have personally see improved critical shot go from 3 to 6 seconds, using the same weapon.

Take a very large sample with both weapons, average the firing times, then we may have a conclusion. I remain almost certain that speed for specials is fixed, regardless of weapon speed.