Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: An explaination... Base DPS vs Modified DPS (please read!)
Levoyan wrote:
A good post, Ive always used My modded DPS and I realize why thats just not accurate. Forget the flaming, you helped me and you know what they say if you can help one person, yadda yadda yadda
And just to follow up, if you've been using modded DPS as a basis instead of base DPS you may not know this little gem (was referred to earlier in the post, I'll expand just a hair).
400+800 = 1200
1200/2 = 600
600/3.0 =200 (your base DPS is 200)
Message Edited by Anach on 06-07-2005 10:59 PM
400+800 = 1200
1200/2 = 600
600/3.0 =200 (your base DPS is 200)
You can take pretty much any decent rifle and turn it into the "type" of firing rifle you need for your situation/template with powerups.
Have one uber NPC or critter your fighting, it's do-or-die in the next two minutes? Then toss a speed powerup on that rifle and go for max DPS. SAC won't matter over a short timeframe. I use -34.11% Attack Speed pups. Granted these have a -26 to accuracy but I have not noticed a difference as a Master with the accuracy. Still worried? Then take some Crispic +40 Ranged Accuracy food and have a -34.11% Speed improvement AND a net +14 Accuracy bonus (40 - 26).
Want to impress your friends with uber damage? You want to generate plenty of "hate" from a critter so they attack you and not your level 40 buddy with you? Use a +32.66% Damage Mod pup on the same rifle. Your damage per shot greatly increases. Your Modified DPS will be lower than with the speed pup but higher than base DPS. The hit my +32.66 Damage mod pups have is a -6.5% attack speed.
Not going anywhere for awhile? Plan to sit and shoot some large 30K critter for awhile. Then use a SAC cost reduction pups. I make/use -28.9% SAC Reduction pups. Spam away on your specials all you want. Great for long term group damage dealing. Your worthless to your group if your just sitting waiting on your action bar to regen.
Keep 2 rifle around, Energy and Kinetic. Keep 3 pup types around. Mix and match based on your situation.
Message Edited by xDiggerx on 06-08-2005 06:55 AM
Anach wrote:
Taken directly from a forum post for calculating your DPS.
Take your min damage, add to your max, divide by 2, then divide by your weapon speed/modified speed.
ie [(min+max)/2]/speed
eg. 400-800 3.0 speed.
400+800 = 1200
1200/2 = 600
600/3.0 =200 (your base DPS is 200)
From what I understand. Forget mods, SAC and real rifle stats for the moment. If someone has a high dmg, low speed rifle, say 800-1600max with a speed of 6.0. that is the same damage per second (DPS) they should be doing as someone with a 400-800max 3.0 speed rifle would. Which would be about 200 Damage every second without specials. SAC is only what your specials cost. Which is important when spamming specials, but nothing to do with your DPS.
People say that Max damage is important and so is speed, well thats what DPS is. A calculation of your min/max damage against your speed. Not a seperate stat. It shoudlnt matter what the damage and speed of a rifle is, if you list the DPS. As DPS could be the same on two completely different rifles (speed/damage), but give the same damage output.
Message Edited by Anach on 06-07-2005 10:59 PM
That formula is correct. And it is still not an indicator of how well the weapon will perform for any given individual.
**EDIT - additionally** I've heard (unfounded speculation mostly) that class ability cooldowns can be affected by weapon speed. I've used weapons of varying speeds in combat and seen no noticeable difference in recycle times regardless of weapon speed (granted, I used nothing so extrememe as a 10.0 spd rifle vs a 2.0 spd one for example. Generally weapons such as 1.85spd vs. 2.60 spd and such.) Either the specials aren't affected by the weapon speed, or perhaps (more likely) being master of your profession - and having a pretty high Spd/Acc rating in general - my skill mods negated the difference in weapon speed. If anyone has conclusive testing to prove this either way, pretty please shoot me a link to the empirical evidence. I'd love to see how these things affect each other more closely.
Cheers!
Message Edited by DanteTheMagnificent on 06-08-2005 10:07 AM
Message Edited by DanteTheMagnificent on 06-08-2005 10:08 AM
DanteTheMagnificent wrote:
Anach wrote:
Taken directly from a forum post for calculating your DPS.
Take your min damage, add to your max, divide by 2, then divide by your weapon speed/modified speed.
ie [(min+max)/2]/speed
eg. 400-800 3.0 speed.
400+800 = 1200
1200/2 = 600
600/3.0 =200 (your base DPS is 200)
From what I understand. Forget mods, SAC and real rifle stats for the moment. If someone has a high dmg, low speed rifle, say 800-1600max with a speed of 6.0. that is the same damage per second (DPS) they should be doing as someone with a 400-800max 3.0 speed rifle would. Which would be about 200 Damage every second without specials. SAC is only what your specials cost. Which is important when spamming specials, but nothing to do with your DPS.
People say that Max damage is important and so is speed, well thats what DPS is. A calculation of your min/max damage against your speed. Not a seperate stat. It shoudlnt matter what the damage and speed of a rifle is, if you list the DPS. As DPS could be the same on two completely different rifles (speed/damage), but give the same damage output.
Message Edited by Anach on 06-07-2005 10:59 PM
That formula is correct. And it is still not an indicator of how well the weapon will perform for any given individual.
The DPS number does nothing to take into consideration cooldown timers for specials, speed caps, or any of those goodies.
If I have a weapon that has a speed of 1.0 and max dmg of 500, and a weapon of the same type that does 750 max dmg every 2.0 sec, the DPS on the 1.0 spd weapon will be higher. BUT - if I'm using damage specials that have a 2.0 second cooldown on them anyway, I'm still going to do more -effective- damage per second in combat with the slower, harder hitting weapon.
Just a very basic example of how DPS isn't the end-all-be-all factor in determining a weapon's effectiveness. Only a very broad, general kind of indicator. The only thing it will accurately indicate is how well you will do damage if you only spam your base attack (melee hit / ranged hit). Once you start using your actual abilities from your template, DPS more or less goes out the window. But the seasoned player will know the recycle times of their specials, and thus which weapons will be best used in which scenarios.
**EDIT - additionally** I've heard (unfounded speculation mostly) that class ability cooldowns can be affected by weapon speed. I've used weapons of varying speeds in combat and seen no noticeable difference in recycle times regardless of weapon speed (granted, I used nothing so extrememe as a 10.0 spd rifle vs a 2.0 spd one for example. Generally weapons such as 1.85spd vs. 2.60 spd and such.) Either the specials aren't affected by the weapon speed, or perhaps (more likely) being master of your profession - and having a pretty high Spd/Acc rating in general - my skill mods negated the difference in weapon speed. If anyone has conclusive testing to prove this either way, pretty please shoot me a link to the empirical evidence. I'd love to see how these things affect each other more closely.
Cheers!
Message Edited by DanteTheMagnificent on 06-08-2005 10:07 AM
Message Edited by DanteTheMagnificent on 06-08-2005 10:08 AM
Food for thought. There are a lot of different combinations to take into consideration it seems. Anyway, this thread was meant to be about showing people what DPS to quote when talking about a weapon to others. Nothing more.
Maceey wrote:
but dps uses min damage and the combat system doesn't use min damage.
Well DPS doesnt use min damage from the weapon (its min+max). DPS is however a damage factor for the normal attack without specials. If thats what you mean. Which I stated already.
Sorry, I don't buy that special cooldowns are not impacted by weapon speed.
Take a rifle, run your specials. Then add one of my -34.11% speed reduction powerups. Take the same rifle, your same skill set, and run your specials again! Watch the timers spin like crazy.
I am not saying this is better (SAC can kill you) but it does impact it.
Rataard wrote:
They go up to 387 base DPS for converted exceptional bowcasters.
/brandish
Yeah saw one in a house with 400 base and 1200 max damage
Problem is, DPS can be misleading. Two weapons can have the exact same max damage, but widely different DPS ratings just because one of them is 0.14 seconds faster (less than two tenths of a second). How much of a difference does 0.14 seconds make in combat? Maybe it will 'add up' over time in a long battle, but for most battles 0.14 seconds will be far less important than 13 less SAC. Or so it seems to me, anyways.
Slim Vargo, Corbantis