Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: The ADK Discussion
Maceey wrote:
so your argument not to change anything about the adk they are good right now and people will get mad?
The fact that people are paying what they are for adk's is something that needs to be considered if you were to make any changes. One thing SOE has been very bad about is destroying the value of in game objects without fairly compensating people for them. While this doesn’t exclude the possibility of changes for the better of the game as a whole, SOE really needs to strongly consider changes that adversely affect the value of objects and provide adequate compensation to people in game.
It’s a lot like eminent domain. The government can come in and destroy your house to build a freeway, but they have to pay fair market value for your house and in many case also compensate you for the cost of moving. To date SOE just comes in and destroys your house and doesn’t give you anything for it. For someone that might have put a years worth of work and accumulated wealth into a few ADK’s, SOE coming in and making them worthless or of diminished value can be a game quitting event.
But I don’t think ADK’s have had a noticeable affect on WS sales. As stated above there are a lot of other reasons that are much more likely to have caused a drop in sales, and that’s not even getting into the fact that a WS having problems selling goods may just be getting the tar beat out of them by other WS’s. (Crafting is by definition economic PVP)
The WS I worked with had no problem making money hand over fist before after and during the CU and fluctuations in his sales didn’t occur at the same time as the addition of ADK’s but were much more likely the result a multitude of issues from the CU. So I would really like to see the numbers of active non jedi accounts that have ADK’d all their weapons before this would be considered. Even if it was as high as 20%, which would very much surprise me, that’s still a lot better then what architects and tailors get out of product decay.
One thing I would also like to point out is anything that people start paying a lot of credits for generates a lot of nerf calls from people that can’t afford it. In some cases some of this is deserved but quite a bit of it is envy. I know this isn’t true of most people but there is a noticeable vocal minority that continually calls for some sort of total fairness and tries to destroy anything that takes a lot of time and effort to obtain so they don’t have to put in the work to get that advantage themselves.
Dekka1 wrote:
Really? You think that? Seriously? You think most people have 10 ADKs?
maigy wrote:
I think the majority of players are like me... I got 2 accounts = 2 ADKs, my wife is a triple crafter so that gives me another 1 I have had about 20 guildies quit after getting their ADK that has given me 7 more.
Id say the average amount of ADK a person has is around 2-3. There are alot of people with just one. But most of them are casual gamers. The power gamers (which there are a lot of) will have over 10.
On wanderhome the richest person on the server told me once that he spent over 200,000,000 credits to buy 12 ADK's, the price on the server is around 11mill to 15mill each.
shilo2 wrote:
Id say the average amount of ADK a person has is around 2-3. There are alot of people with just one. But most of them are casual gamers. The power gamers (which there are a lot of) will have over 10.
On wanderhome the richest person on the server told me once that he spent over 200,000,000 credits to buy 12 ADK's, the price on the server is around 11mill to 15mill each.
Average is 2 to 3 kits per person?
Just based on the price alone I doubt that.
Might be the average of forum veterans but we’re only a part of the player base
If you assume that the number of kits sold by non-active accounts to active accounts is roughly equal to number of kits that have left the game through accounts that no longer play. It’s impossible to get over 1 kit per person average. Because not every toon can get a kit and every toon that has 3 means there are 2 toons that have 0.
Think that’s the problem with this whole argument. It’s all anecdotal and supposition, my arguments included. Really what should be happening is the correspondent should be asking for some actual facts so this issue could be honestly assessed.
ObiQuixote wrote:
Maceey wrote:
so your argument not to change anything about the adk they are good right now and people will get mad?
The fact that people are paying what they are for adk's is something that needs to be considered if you were to make any changes. One thing SOE has been very bad about is destroying the value of in game objects without fairly compensating people for them. While this doesn’t exclude the possibility of changes for the better of the game as a whole, SOE really needs to strongly consider changes that adversely affect the value of objects and provide adequate compensation to people in game.
It’s a lot like eminent domain. The government can come in and destroy your house to build a freeway, but they have to pay fair market value for your house and in many case also compensate you for the cost of moving. To date SOE just comes in and destroys your house and doesn’t give you anything for it. For someone that might have put a years worth of work and accumulated wealth into a few ADK’s, SOE coming in and making them worthless or of diminished value can be a game quitting event.
But I don’t think ADK’s have had a noticeable affect on WS sales. As stated above there are a lot of other reasons that are much more likely to have caused a drop in sales, and that’s not even getting into the fact that a WS having problems selling goods may just be getting the tar beat out of them by other WS’s. (Crafting is by definition economic PVP)
The WS I worked with had no problem making money hand over fist before after and during the CU and fluctuations in his sales didn’t occur at the same time as the addition of ADK’s but were much more likely the result a multitude of issues from the CU. So I would really like to see the numbers of active non jedi accounts that have ADK’d all their weapons before this would be considered. Even if it was as high as 20%, which would very much surprise me, that’s still a lot better then what architects and tailors get out of product decay.
One thing I would also like to point out is anything that people start paying a lot of credits for generates a lot of nerf calls from people that can’t afford it. In some cases some of this is deserved but quite a bit of it is envy. I know this isn’t true of most people but there is a noticeable vocal minority that continually calls for some sort of total fairness and tries to destroy anything that takes a lot of time and effort to obtain so they don’t have to put in the work to get that advantage themselves.
I do agree with your points and i don't want to see the adk removed. But some people tend to think very lightly of this discussion and like the person i quoted just say stuff that doesn't help this discussion we are trying to have.
Soe can change these things because our credits and chars belong to them. You are allowed to use it because you pay for it. If soe would want to take away 50% of peoples credits they could do that without any consiquenses for them but players complaining.(Spelling 
) And that's why you can't really compare it to RL.
And yes there are issues that have a much bigger impact on our sales then the ADK. But if you read summer's post you know this thread was created because a lot of weaponsmiths do a grudge against the ADK and they started posting a bout the adk in our other issue topics a lot. Causing the other issues to be pushed in the back. Personally i don't have a real selling problem i never had. Sure there are times when i wish i could sell some more but right now almost every enhanced rifle/carb gets sold within a day from my vendors.
Andi know we can't get numbers on how many people have their weapons adk'ed even if 1 smith would start a survey on each galaxy's forums you would get some bad data. First not all people read the forums. Secondly there will allways be people that have to brag about stuff and say they have 6 but in fact they have just 2.
And for me personally it's not a grudge because i can't afford it. If i wanted to buy them i would have done a long time ago with much better prices. And i really doubt all of us here have that envy or want to nerf it etc. Something i don't have is something i work for. I started my ws with 50k or so when i was a tkm since then 16 months ago i worked very hard to get where i am today and that's one of the better weaponsmiths of my server. I'm not the best or oldest or experianced ws but i'm a good ws with good sales, prices, quality.
Not all of us want the adk completely removed or changed to slowing down decay only. There are some that believe the bio-linking the adkor even better bio-linking theadk'ed object is the best way and i also believe that. I don't believe the problem is the adk but the way people can use it. The real problem is the weapons never leave the game. People will trade weapon(adk) for another weapon(adk) in the near future. I know i have some guildy's that did that and i'm guessing it would happen in other guilds as well or between good friends.
Now i like the adk myself as it's a good reward for veteran players. Me as a weaponsmith is getting hit the hardest by the adk because most people will use them for weapons. If people really do start to trade adk'ed weapons for other weapons that will kill the market especially now with the weapon caps in place. And unfortunatly the devs created this CU with the weaponcaps in place to make sure the balance will remain. So i doubt they will change that so very easy. I do however want to see our other issues changed first and i believe so do other weaponsmiths. I don't want to nerf the other professions but my profession comes over others in this case because i play it. And it's not being selfish it's just the way it is i'll protect myself before others when i have to take it up with the devs seeing they tend to create a lot of nerfs and bugs.
Now i did wanted to say some other stuff but that will have to wait for another post because i seem to have forgot it.....
shilo2 wrote:
Dekka1 wrote:
Really? You think that? Seriously? You think most people have 10 ADKs?
maigy wrote:
I think the majority of players are like me... I got 2 accounts = 2 ADKs, my wife is a triple crafter so that gives me another 1 I have had about 20 guildies quit after getting their ADK that has given me 7 more.
Id say the average amount of ADK a person has is around 2-3. There are alot of people with just one. But most of them are casual gamers. The power gamers (which there are a lot of) will have over 10.
LOL, that's it, just LOL.
Just because they can is never a good argument for they should or that it's right. They could remove jedi or wipe all accounts if they wanted to. But that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Ability as justification for action dramatically falls apart when taken to the extremes. America could turn the Middle East into 2 foot thick sheet of glass and still drill through it for oil. Just because America could do that in no way means they should.
Maceey wrote:
Soe can change these things because our credits and chars belong to them. You are allowed to use it because you pay for it. If soe would want to take away 50% of peoples credits they could do that without any consiquenses for them but players complaining.(Spelling
So no, SOE doesn't have to compensate people or view objects as ours when making decisions about changes. But out of respect for the time and money people put into their game they should.
this shouldn't even be a discussion.
boo hoo hoo, I want more money, boo hoo hoo.
give me a break.
if anything this drives the player (e.g moi)to go out and craft the best weapon possible over and over until he gets it, showing their hard work will be rewarded. My friend went thru 3 trando rifles until he was "Satisfied" with the stats he had. (min was kinda low on some of the barrels)
players don't always use just 1 weapon. I myself cycle thru 5 weapons (for different reasons), the ADK is a nice reward, there is nothing wrong with it. This thread is about as pointless as arguing over quest loot. My friend has 5 LD-1 rifles all donated to him by other players, not to mention the proton carbines I have. No one crafted those, No one profitted from them.
FYI <- Master weaponsmith
ObiQuixote wrote:
shilo2 wrote:
Id say the average amount of ADK a person has is around 2-3. There are alot of people with just one. But most of them are casual gamers. The power gamers (which there are a lot of) will have over 10.
On wanderhome the richest person on the server told me once that he spent over 200,000,000 credits to buy 12 ADK's, the price on the server is around 11mill to 15mill each.
Average is 2 to 3 kits per person?
Just based on the price alone I doubt that.
Might be the average of forum veterans but we’re only a part of the player base
If you assume that the number of kits sold by non-active accounts to active accounts is roughly equal to number of kits that have left the game through accounts that no longer play. It’s impossible to get over 1 kit per person average. Because not every toon can get a kit and every toon that has 3 means there are 2 toons that have 0.
Think that’s the problem with this whole argument. It’s all anecdotal and supposition, my arguments included. Really what should be happening is the correspondent should be asking for some actual facts so this issue could be honestly assessed.
How old are you? have you even began basic math?
I am stating an average. sure some people may not even have an ADK, but im talking about averages. Look at the birth rates, for the States the birth rate is something like 2.5
How is that possible when some people dont even have kids, and how do you have .5 of a kid?
Its an average, not a solid number.
ZeenaWarriorprincess wrote:
I'm kind of surprised that no one has mentioned the amount of weapons that the npcs drop. That has hurt my sales far more than the adks have. I've always taken pride in having a well stocked vendor but now the low lvl weapons that are dropped are almost as good as the low level ones I create (mainly the case for firearms). If they slowed the weapon drops a little I'd be able to sell more of all lvl weapons. I guess it's not important to make the lvl 5-30 weapons but my pride in having a fully stocked vendor makes it hard to let the low lvl weapons go.
We have mentioned these issues as well. But there are part of another sticked thread. See main Weaponsmith forums for the "regaining the challange" thread
Message Edited by Lythand on 10-20-2005 03:19 PM
shilo2 wrote:
How old are you? have you even began basic math?
I am stating an average. sure some people may not even have an ADK, but im talking about averages. Look at the birth rates, for the States the birth rate is something like 2.5
How is that possible when some people dont even have kids, and how do you have .5 of a kid?
Its an average, not a solid number.
The average per person, at its best, cannot be more than one per person for ADKs. Simple as that. People quit, sure, and some may leave their ADKs on their toon and others may sell, some (and at this time most, I'd wager) people are newer than a year so they get no ADKs.
The only number you know for sure is that there cannot be more than 1 ADK per account. Many people play across different servers as well - they do NOT get another ADK. Still only one per account, despite that account being responsible for more than 1 toon. It is impossible for the average to be any more than 1. And it is impossible, in practice, for it to get THAT high.
That's basic math.
Message Edited by Dekka1 on 10-21-2005 02:47 PM
As a crafter and combat toon, I feel that the ADK issue is not a issue.
Weaponsmiths and armorsmiths by far make way more money then other crafting proffesions, and there will never be more adk's then there are people in need of weapons. the only reason why it is a issue is becuase of greed, thats the only issue here, instead of making xx millions you now make x million a month, big deal.
You want sales for high end crafted weapons? make a effort to keep improving upon the best, this is not a flame post, just that as long as the crafting proffesion is viable at making money, your doing great, ADK's only reduce the sales by a small % and that is good for the economy overall.