Weaponsmith Archive

Thread: State of the Profession 6/13

Logix
Sun Jun 13, 2004 6:25 am
#1

Currently, this is what we've got going on:


  • Draft summarizing the role of the Weaponsmith


    • Focuses on concerns regarding the state of Weapon Repair, Combat Balance, Looted Schematics, lack of End Game, role in the GCW and space constraints

  • Ongoing Top 10 Questions


    • Answers for question #3 are ready, just waiting on TH to make them public. Upcoming Question #4: "What do Developers feel about the current poor state of Weapon Repair and can anything light be shed on what Weaponsmiths can do to get the most successful repairs?"

  • Top Issues


    • I have no idea when they're planning to start the next round, but we've yet to hear anything about it. I assume they're putting that project on the backburner for awhile.

We're going to be pretty dry for awhile until they start asking for our input on the Combat Balance. Feel free to ask any questions you might have here.

nojediiam
Sun Jun 13, 2004 3:59 pm
#2






Logix wrote:

Currently, this is what we've got going on:

We're going to be pretty dry for awhile until they start asking for our input on the Combat Balance. Feel free to ask any questions you might have here.





Is our input going to bebefore or after their design doc has been created?


Approximately when will this occur?





_Posli on Talus near Dearic: Master Weaponsmith (+29 Exp / +24 Asm)
_____My Current Weapons Menu_____
Miner / Master Pistoleer / Merchant
--Talus Arch Tech and Architect Vendors--
Just use /waypoint 1525 -2700 once on Talus, look for the Arch


Lurax
Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:16 pm
#3


Ackepawa lighten up lol.


our profession is in pretty darn good shape I'd say, very few bugs and illogicalities relative to other professions, and almost everything works as intended. Off the top of my head, here things that are issues for me, anyway.


  • unserialed loot drops. I understand schematics made with unserialed loot will no longer work as of pub9, can we get this confirmed? And perhaps a date when pub9 is coming out, is it the 22nd?

  • experimenting is too simple. I can't think of a weapon type where you wouldn't want to max dmg/speed and it almost doesn't matter where you put excess points after maxing this. There are exceptions of course (low-ham VKs come to mind, and high accuracy hammers/pikes), but in general the few points of ham you can shave off or meagre accuracy bonus you can get with the 2-5 points leftover after maxing dmg are almost laughable. Perhaps this will be addressed in the combat balance (maybe doc buffs with get weakened making HAM costs relevant again)?

  • referring to the above point, getting to +20 weapon experimentation is more a marketting ploy, or insurance while working with loot enhancers, rather than a a way to separate for the best from the rest. The 2 extra points you can chuck in condition or range/ham don't really do anything to distinguish a 12pt smith's products from that of a 10pt smith. Compare to armorsmith, or chef, or doc, or any profession where there is more than 1 relevant bar to experiment.

  • little niggles:


    • some visual display bugs. Try using a de-crated rifle barrel to hand-craft a T21 to see what I mean.

    • acklay bones are still coming up with invalid stats. Notably some 136min/78max bones brought to me 2 days ago and some 156/83 bones yesterday...either could make a min>max stun baton.

    • would be nice to finally get that adv stock experimentation working properly

  • my personal opinion: factory wait times and resource requirements should go up. This is drawn mostlyfrom a comparison to armorsmith, who can spend a week with 10 factories running non-stop and still not have a full line of finishedcomposite suitsready for sale on their vendor. Basically I view it as being way to easy for the market to be flooded with affordable weapons, making it possible for very few weaponsmiths to serve the needs of majority of the server. Like armorsmith, it should be a struggle to keep up with demand if you're one of your server's largest distributors, but currently, it's quite feasible to pump out thousands of finished weapons per day.



Arox Elodda - Valcyn
- Valcyn's first crafter with maxed experimentation and assembly bonus -
Now an apprentice Force-User
Emay Elodda - Shipwright, resource hoarder
Vendors at 1777 -5333 Rori, in Athens


Dodece
Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:20 pm
#4

Weapon repair being broken dosent bother me. The only people that it bothers are people that sit at starports fixing weapons. Our job is to make new weapons not make old ones last forever. There is a reason this is not a big issue, because it aint. So some guy cant hold onto a legendary or krayt weapon for months on end and use it. Infact if you look at it in the right light its a good thing.


My big concern is this new force sensitive crafting. I am a ten point smith because I cannot afford to spend ten million on weapons experimentation tapes. I know when fourteen point hologrinder smiths pop up I am dead if its some quote epic quest. I would just like the info before they spring this stuff on me. If its as bad as it sounds I think I would like to jump ship now and cancel my crafter account.
LLJK_Griz
Sun Jun 13, 2004 4:49 pm
#5






Dodece wrote:

Weapon repair being broken dosent bother me. The only people that it bothers are people that sit at starports fixing weapons. Our job is to make new weapons not make old ones last forever. There is a reason this is not a big issue, because it aint. So some guy cant hold onto a legendary or krayt weapon for months on end and use it. Infact if you look at it in the right light its a good thing.






The problem is not with the fact that repair was changed, it's that they did it with no patchnotes or any sort of announcement and the only response we got was that there wasn't enough data to prove anything (there WAS enough data, and after gathering more they did not respond to it at all).



POKEY THE PENGUIN SIG REMOVED BY GARVA BECAUSE "Just because you are crafty enough to get around the technicality of it being a .jpg or .gif does not mean it is not an image, it is not ascii art, it is an image" SO HERE IS MY NEW SIG.
HUGE UGLY SIG
BruSwillis
Sun Jun 13, 2004 5:29 pm
#6






Lurax wrote:

our profession is in pretty darn good shape I'd say, very few bugs and illogicalities relative to other professions, and almost everything works as intended.





Nicey summed up.
I dont think we have much to say until we have more details on the combat reballance and the game is back on track again.


Weapon repair, who cares. If they degrade quicker then its more sales of new stock. Besides, weapon reapir isnt a weaponsmith issue as it was taken out of the weaponsmith tree in beta2 (thank god, oh how I rejoiced that day)


Bru






_____BruMasterUnderworldSmuggler.
___________Toth'raRebelBothanSpy.

Loriena
Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:44 pm
#7



BruSwillis wrote:

Besides, weapon reapir isnt a weaponsmith issue as it was taken out of the weaponsmith tree in beta2 (thank god, oh how I rejoiced that day)






If you believe what is written in the patch notes, WS do get a bonus to the repair skill. So it is a skill which is highly related to weaponsmithing and is therefore a WS issue. Who else should raise the voice concerning the bugged repairs if not us, the repair monkeys? *g

I have a question for those of you who think this bug is good for business: How greedy can you be?

So we should start to sell highly breakable weapons for exorbitant prices which at this point don't last a week just to sell another one next week to make more money? What for? Do you define your "sucess" by your wealth? You shouldn't...
Loriena
Sun Jun 13, 2004 9:54 pm
#8


referring to the above point, getting to +20 weapon experimentation is more a marketting ploy, or insurance while working with loot enhancers, rather than a a way to separate for the best from the rest. The 2 extra points you can chuck in condition or range/ham don't really do anything to distinguish a 12pt smith's products from that of a 10pt smith. Compare to armorsmith, or chef, or doc, or any profession where there is more than 1 relevant bar to experiment




I must say I found the fact that I really don't need the extra points very comforting. I don't see the point in spending 40 million on +20 experimentation skill tapes and how this makes me a "good" WS. It should really just be the resources that distinguishes us, at least the good ones are cheaper to buy than the tapes...
Logix
Sun Jun 13, 2004 11:11 pm
#9





charb wrote:
gee, none of those issues seem very weaponsmith related imho.



If their January proposal for the Combat Rebalance still stands, we have everything to do with it. Every question we've asked about experimentation, about damage types and AP, about unused weapons -- they all give us the same answer: "Wait until Combat Balance."


As to your latter suggestion, that is what I mean by End Game. After our businesses are well-established and we have nothing more to do than run the same tedious factory errands, we deserve something more. Weapon Specialization, epic quests and a GCW role (gun mounts, turrets) need to be that something to keep elder smiths from letting go.


The remaining primary balance concerns -- Weapon Repair, looted schematics and space constraints -- are possibly the most complained about issues on these boards. Most of us have absolutely no free space as we're innundated by hundreds of looted items and we're only told that it's going to get worse with more looted items being introduced in the future. Weapon Repair, regardless of how it may or may not benefit us, is something the player-base has grown accustomed to. We adapted to Weapon Repair being fairly reliable and so have our customers; such a drastic change without warning needs to be addressed and explained.





nojediiam wrote:

Is our input going to bebefore or after their design doc has been created?


Approximately when will this occur?





I have no idea. They do not give us dates for anything, unfortunately, as they often have to be changed last-minute.





Lurax wrote:


unserialed loot drops. I understand schematics made with unserialed loot will no longer work as of pub9, can we get this confirmed? And perhaps a date when pub9 is coming out, is it the 22nd?




Thunderheart told me that it would be Publish 9, but unfortunately, no date (as above).


charb
Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:33 am
#10

gee, none of those issues seem very weaponsmith related imho.


my fellow weaponsmiths will comment on the schematics so i'll let someone else do that.


how about REALLY giving us weapon customization?


whats the point of experimentating on HAM if all we do is remove 1 or 2 points, that is NOT very worthwhile to experiment on most of the time. Or how about speed/damage being the same box. I myself would prefer that to be seperate. Seeing as how everyone puts as many boxes into speed/damage, then left over into either HAM or COND. The only thing I might experiment on for anything other than speed/damage may be accuracy for some component such as sword cores etc... This of course is no simple fix and they would more than likely have to redo a few different things to make that work. My thoughts are, If you make a 80-400 6.0 laser in current crafting process, you should still be able to make a 80-400 6.0 laser rifle in this new setup if you decide to go half/half. So back to wasteful experimentation, HAM, yes, thats quite pathetic when we experiment on it. I also feel that should be seperate, maybe I want a weapon with very low mind, Why can't I experiment ONLY on mind?


The only thing that seperates us from each other are our resources. Its very sad in my opinion that all MY resources are worth more to sell to a fellow smith on my server, than for me to combine into an item because: 1.) I am a 10 point smith, and 2.) I am not that well known. #2 is more or less my own fault, I can live with that. I think its sad that NOTHING seperates us apart from resources, not even how long I have been in the profession.


Someone had an idea a long long time ago. It was to award experimentation points for master combat classes to give you crafting bonuses for that "type" of weapon. master tka = +2 experimentation for a VK. If you use that weapon in combat you should have a knowledge of how that weapon works, and you should be granted a bonus for building them. I think its a marvelous idea, not sure if it can be implemented, but still a good idea imho. (shouldn't stack with skill tapes tho imho)
Be0Wulfe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 12:58 am
#11






Logix wrote:

We're going to be pretty dry for awhile until they start asking for our input on the Combat Balance. Feel free to ask any questions you might have here.







We're going to wait? You kid me, right? Especially with the combat balance off in the future at some nebulous time, not to mention the crafting 'update/fix' that was part of publish 7 but pulled back. You want me to wait ...


Let's see, where do I start -

Weapon Repair that's been broke for months with ZERO response from any SOE entity.

Broken schematics such as CDM's & AWStocks - this since Beta 3.

Broken schematics that require specific resources that are hard-capped (ABRB Rhodium Steel) - this too since Beta 3.


Then lets look at the state of the profession:

NO end-game - I'm actually kinda ok with that. I'm not ok with no 'high-level' game

I've become a factory foreman - I churn out 6-10 types of weapons consistently, nothing else is worthwhile.

- OR -

I participate, albeit grudginly, in the loot whoring & economy inflation. Only now, I no longer buy loot to make weapons, I make them on demand if the loot is provided. I refuse to contribute to the runaway economy.

I'm looking at becoming even more one-dimensional when I have to give up the last of my non-crafting skills to become a ship-wright.


Along with armorsmiths, weaponsmiths are the other backbone of this game, with other crafters in close to distant second. Yet, where's our content? The Corellian Corvette? The Deathwatch Bunker? Armorsmiths got RIS, but I have as yet to see a suit on my server. SOE's explanation that the loot drops are exceedingly rare contributes to how EPIC this quest in. Well, clue them in for us, a quest is not EPIC because you can't bloody well finish it, it's EPIC because of the duration it takes, the sacrifice it requires and the difficulty involved. God save weaponsmiths from such an EPIC quest.


Honestly Logix, I don't mind playing a second-fiddle class if there's some hope in the future - if there is - I don't see it.




Ackepawa Ackepawi (AA Kriegswerk)
At the Old Masters Hall of Vendors - Weapons, Armor, Droids, BE Clothes, Vehicles, Resources & more!
Bestine, Tatooine -1260 -2990

Be0Wulfe
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:23 am
#12






Lurax wrote:


Ackepawa lighten up lol.


our profession is in pretty darn good shape I'd say, very few bugs and illogicalities relative to other professions, and almost everything works as intended. Off the top of my head, here things that are issues for me, anyway.





We'll agree to disagree then.

I'm more interested in what the other Bloodfin weaponsmiths have to say.



Ackepawa Ackepawi (AA Kriegswerk)
At the Old Masters Hall of Vendors - Weapons, Armor, Droids, BE Clothes, Vehicles, Resources & more!
Bestine, Tatooine -1260 -2990

nojediiam
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:48 am
#13






Logix wrote:





nojediiam wrote:


Is our input going to bebefore or after their design doc has been created?


Approximately when will this occur?




I have no idea. They do not give us dates for anything, unfortunately, as they often have to be changed last-minute.






I understand about no dates. The most important part is whether or not our input comes post or pre design doc. There are so many things to consider:


Do old weapons get changed leaving us with mislabeled goods being a major one? (as in we label Weapon X 100-200, 2.5 spd now pops out of the crate with 50-150, 3.0 stats)


Do subcomponents get changed as well?


Does damage type or AP change?


...those are just to name a few.


Once things get past design doc, they tend to have to deal with designer ego on occasion.


I would prefer to be pre doc due to that and for the impression that our opinion matters for this revamp.







_Posli on Talus near Dearic: Master Weaponsmith (+29 Exp / +24 Asm)
_____My Current Weapons Menu_____
Miner / Master Pistoleer / Merchant
--Talus Arch Tech and Architect Vendors--
Just use /waypoint 1525 -2700 once on Talus, look for the Arch


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