Weaponsmith Archive

Thread: Schematic redesigns comming? What will they change?

Redguard
Mon Mar 29, 2004 3:47 am
#1

There has been talk that some of the weapons schematics are undergoing a redesign. I don't know if this was a combat revamp issue or something that would be a stand alone. I'm interested in finding out if anyone has anymore information.


I have some ideas on weapon design and am wondering what you think? I realize that not many of us use the weapons we create but we can definately look at design issues.


Changes to melee:


Sword, Curved Sword and Two handed Curved Swords should have AR reduced 1 step. - Not going to be popular with fencers and swordsmanbut why should these essentially obsolete weapons be able to penetrate futuristic armors like a knife through butter?


Vibro-weapons should have a medium AR and possibly do another type of damage.(sonic perhaps?)- As they stand now why wouldfencers/brawlers even bother with the vibroblade?


Light Sabers-(not really a weaponsmith issue)-Should have the highest AR and do energy damage.


Revamp lower level melee schematics so that they have some efficacy and there is a reason to use/make them.


Vibroknucklers should change the damage type and provide lowAR to the TKA existing abilities-less emphasis on damage enhancement/speed...(the TKA is fast enough allready)


Pistols


I cant really think of any major issues other than legacy guns and some changes to schematic composition. I've yet to see the Genosian stuff in action though I've seen the stat lines on a few crafts, they do appear a bit over-powered but thats my opinion. My only concern is that they don't follow the EQ model of the next big thing making all other items obsolete. Generic schems should be the norm in the game and looted schems should be on par or slightly less powerful than player generated items.


Factional Guns: P5P and Strike Recon, are they really worth the time and effort? I noticed that on Ahazi one smith was selling Strike Recons so they're now player craftable? Pardon my ignorance here but I've really never had any occasion to craft these guns.


Rifles


SG-82, I have not ever seen one in use.

Tusken Rifle, shouln't this be doing kinetic damage?

Spraystick range mods appear to be out of whack.

Looted schematics: see pistols

Beam Rifle still has no cert


Heavy Weapons


Flamethowers- should be less damage focused, have 0 AR and be a weapon that creates a powerful DOT.

Heavy Acid Rifle- Should have a high AR and do more damage than the FT


Any thoughts? I just want to have a discussion about the current crop of weapons and examine their design issues.



Given the choice between style over substance. I'll take a sandwich.
LLJK_Griz
Mon Mar 29, 2004 9:00 am
#2

They said the crafting and certification changes would be part of the combat rebalance, but with that delayed indefinitely it's unlikely that anything will be changed in the forseeable future.



POKEY THE PENGUIN SIG REMOVED BY GARVA BECAUSE "Just because you are crafty enough to get around the technicality of it being a .jpg or .gif does not mean it is not an image, it is not ascii art, it is an image" SO HERE IS MY NEW SIG.
HUGE UGLY SIG
Dodece
Mon Mar 29, 2004 11:42 pm
#3

Too be rather blunt about it. All the weapons classes need a serious overhaul. High end weapons are near impossible to make real well. While low end weapons with less specific resources can come out obscene. Can anyone tell me the logic of the fact that my dh17 can kick the butt on any non krayt carbine of any other sort.


My dh17 is doing 107 to 207 better ham cost 3 speed and a awesome range. All before the slice.


Equation to reach this advanced parts all around and polysteel copper conduct of 992


The only carbine that is remotely close in quality is the dxr and it costs a ton more to make time effort and resource wise.


Something tells me that even if the resources are poor which is often the case with specific resources. That with all those extra parts. I should be crafting a solid better weapon. In other words the lowend on a elite carbine should be substantially more then a dh17 highend.


I am haveing a hard time explaining to people that they should not bother with the high end certs they get, because its really junk.


There are twenty weapons i do not make because they flat out have no real value. Powerfive pistols tusken rifles tangle pistols. The grenades blow the only one of merit i see is the proton.


No weapon balance whatsoever. The real travesty is that the players who use them are the ones really getting jipped. Different weapons for different situations and at different moments in battle.


To make the matters worse. Is the new schematics you get what is the deal with depreciation. Then stacking a specific resource on it. Makes bothering with getting new schematics a waste of time. Some of which are hard as heck to get and you dare not waste them on special orders. About forces you to sell guns made with them for outrageous sums.


No question about it just horrible balance in general, and throwing temp schematics on it wont help. Sadly we know it wont be fixed the only thing that gets swung around here is the nerf hammer. We have all seen it. Why fix when you can side step.


Not to be bias at all every profession gets run through like a women of ill repute. Scouts never got the multiharvest. Combat droids are laughable. Bioengineers have no market anymore. Level ten pets are best left at home. Speeders why fix when you can take the shuttle.


I see in the future a schematic of the month club. So get ready you are going to be deluged with requests for guns that you cannot make because they take super special ingredients, and you dare not part with one for less then a hundred thousand.


Okay fine it takes special resources fine make the schematic hard to get, but dont penalize me for makeing these new guns. If I take the time to get it let me keep it. Allow the weaponsmiths to bring these new weapons to the masses. Not just to the uber leet doods.


Joshie2
Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:24 am
#4






Dodece wrote:

Can anyone tell me the logic of the fact that my dh17 can kick the butt on any non krayt carbine of any other sort.






Because it has no armor piercing and is worthless against anything with medium/heavy armor or high energy resists.
Dodece
Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:57 am
#5

Good response I was only thinking of the normal things people kill with the weapons, but the point is still valid why is it point for point the dh17 is still better then the other carbines.


You cannot seriously be telling me that the ee3 e11 elite should not be doing better damage then they are. Special stats asside It still strikes me as dumb.


Oh and by the way specialqualities on carbines are not all that important since most of the attacks used with them by higher players are stat modifiers, and knockdowns. None of which has any bearing on the damage type of the weapon, or the damage done in the attack.


In other words speed and ham costs are the only really relevant things. That is why most bounty hunters are reduced to carrying around sliced cdefs. So that they might spam such moves over and over with little or no penalty.
JohnAdams
Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:56 am
#6






Dodece wrote:

My dh17 is doing 107 to 207 better ham cost 3 speed and a awesome range. All before the slice.




How the hell do you do that? My best one came out no better than 171 with an advanced pistol barrel, damn good ABPH (still haven't seen Irolunn over 650) and 1000 cond metal. I can't believe ther are 30 more points in it.


But I often thought the same thing while I was crafting. Started working on a combat character on another server and it really gives you a new outlook. Carbines may not look impressive and they aren't my favorite, but that full auto single can put out a lot of damage in a hurry. Plus if you take knockdowns into account, a carbine doesn't have to be a lot better to be more effective. Damage numbers are nice, but a DH17 still can't touch a good Republic blaster and especially the Modified Republic blaster. Damage stats sell a lot of weapons. But real pros look beyond that. And I know I can't fully understand why some people choose one gun over the other without seeing what they see.





CrazyBob - grumpy old weaponsmith
Check your global south of Dearic on Bria
Tw0flow3r
Tue Mar 30, 2004 4:56 am
#7

I hope they fix the schematics.


Mine keep swapping around all the time and I can't tell which number makes what.


I don't want to experiment for several hours before I can use a macro.
Shimond
Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:48 am
#8

I guess you've never been a fencer or a swordsman.

The ONLY fencing weapon that is not AP0 is the vibroblade, which is rarely used because it's natural damage is about the same or less than a gad stick at 50% resist (AR1 over AP0).

Honestly with the state of armor as it is now (80%+ resists to all damage types save stun) I think weapons should be given MORE armor piercing, not less. I think every melee weapon should be bumped up one armor piercing rank to make them feasible in PvP (right now the only PvP melee weapon worth the time is the Stun Baton).

I think Pikemen and Swordsmen should have access to AP3 weapons (make them the LVA and the Two Hand Cleaver if you don't want to make the class specific weapon such) to balance them out better with the amount of damage ranged professions (specifically a T21 user) can do.

For ranged I think the Elite Carbine should be made AP3, the DX2 AP2. This will give these weapons more kick and a reason to be used by those professions (carbineers prefer the Laser Carbine, pistoleers the Republic Blaster).

I think armor needs to work less effectively, not more effectively. And instead of nerfing armor a better way is by boosting weapons.

I also think it's silly that right now the rifleman is hands down the best ranged profession, thanks largely to two specific weapons (T21 and Jawa) giving them the ability to hit hard no matter what they're up against. But instead of nerfing them, boost the others to their level of competance.

-Shi
Darth_Llama
Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:05 am
#9






Redguard wrote:


Changes to melee:


Sword, Curved Sword and Two handed Curved Swords should have AR reduced 1 step. - Not going to be popular with fencers and swordsmanbut why should these essentially obsolete weapons be able to penetrate futuristic armors like a knife through butter?




I lost intrest in the post at this point. I then went back and finished it out of principle only to discover I didn't miss much...


You're suggesting that two AP0 weapons be reduced to AP-1? *blinks in amazement*


"penetrate futuristic armors like a knife through butter"?!? What game have you been playing? None of those 3 weapons you mentioned are used much (if at all) in PvP. On top of that, all are kinetic damage type, which means that most player crafted armor around now would render attacks from these weapons as little more than a tickle.







Redguard wrote:


Generic schems should be the norm in the game and looted schems should be on par or slightly less powerful than player generated items.



If this is the case, then why even make them? Also, they technically are player generated items.




yay!
Dodece
Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:47 am
#10

I really wish I was jokeing about the sliced cdef, and yes I do use a sliced cdef. buffs and drugs are great, but the effectiveness of say fire knockdown is closer to one in ten. So you may have to poor on ten knockdown shots to get the desired effect. So even with buffs ham costs can and do skyrocket.


Bur seriously compare the pistols and the carbines. A scatter outdoes a dh17 on min as does the dx2. Both highers certs, and they do better damage types. Is it right that high level cert carbines are playing second fiddle to higher cert pistols.


I have found that the mentality to some weapons have changed since i started. People used to really love laser carbines, but most people seem to appreciate high end low damage, because it is more forgiveing of things like range. I really want to see the person who just has to have a tusken rifle.


Fear is not the mind killer the tusken rifle is. They really need to bring the kinetic back on this one.


SpaceGolfer
Tue Mar 30, 2004 1:51 pm
#11

I personally have had no problem selling Tuskens, Laser Carbines, and EE3 Carbines. My Laser Rifles and Carbinesare among my highest demand items.


And I have yet to see a Bounty Hunter with a sliced CDEF. Were you joking about that?


Oh yeah, and as far as HAM costs go, with the food and doctor buffs available. Not many people care about HAM costs these days.





Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics. Even if you win, you're still retarded.


Scottus R'ic
Master Bounty Hunter, Master Carbineer, Medic

Three Stones Hill
The Best Community of Roleplayers on Chilastra
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Redguard
Wed Mar 31, 2004 12:40 am
#12

As far as the sword,curved sword and two-handed curved sword go, I am not suggesting that they have AR values of negative 1. It's my understanding that the curved and two handed curved have AR>0. I believe I was wrong about the plain old sword. My issue with these archaic weapons is that given the materials used in creating armor they shouldn't have any AR at all. Yes this means that given the high kinetic value of most armors they would be a tickle, thats the point. They are obsolete now so what would make them so much better in a futuristic setting where lasers,blasters etc etc etc exist?


Vibro weapons and power weapons should be the fencer/swordsman high end choice. I play a swordsman on Ahazi and quite honestly in PVE I'll use the sword over thePowerHammerbecause of it's speed and lower HAM costs for specials.


Looted schematic trouble me because they have the potential to make standard schem weapons obsolete. I'll use an EQ analogy: Once expansions went live the devs were always trying to raise the bar as far as loot drops go. Thulian Claws,once a very desirable weapon, became a joke because the next expansion had something 3x better. The following expansions had weapons that were 3x better than the first and the process continues until old Antonica weapon drops were a complete and utter joke. Looted schematic weapons tend to throw the balance out of whack. I'm not saying that they should be useless. I'm proposing that they be on par with standard crafted weapons but offer variety when it comes to characteristics.



Given the choice between style over substance. I'll take a sandwich.
Darth_Llama
Wed Mar 31, 2004 3:49 am
#13






Redguard wrote:

As far as the sword,curved sword and two-handed curved sword go, I am not suggesting that they have AR values of negative 1. It's my understanding that the curved and two handed curved have AR>0. I believe I was wrong about the plain old sword. My issue with these archaic weapons is that given the materials used in creating armor they shouldn't have any AR at all. Yes this means that given the high kinetic value of most armors they would be a tickle, thats the point. They are obsolete now so what would make them so much better in a futuristic setting where lasers,blasters etc etc etc exist?



Vibro weapons and power weapons should be the fencer/swordsman high end choice. I play a swordsman on Ahazi and quite honestly in PVE I'll use the sword over thePowerHammerbecause of it's speed and lower HAM costs for specials.



Looted schematic trouble me because they have the potential to make standard schem weapons obsolete. I'll use an EQ analogy: Once expansions went live the devs were always trying to raise the bar as far as loot drops go. Thulian Claws,once a very desirable weapon, became a joke because the next expansion had something 3x better. The following expansions had weapons that were 3x better than the first and the process continues until old Antonica weapon drops were a complete and utter joke. Looted schematic weapons tend to throw the balance out of whack. I'm not saying that they should be useless. I'm proposing that they be on par with standard crafted weapons but offer variety when it comes to characteristics.




The Curved sword is AP0, same as the regular sword. The only fencer weapon that is AP1 is the Vibroblade. The two handed curved sword is AP2, if I recall. So are the Scythe and the Powerhammer. Neither of which concern me, just please stop asking for already weak Fencer weapons be nerfed. Trust me, neither of those mentioned are worth using as is.


Hmm, archaic eh? Tell that to the Wookiee race, who use the Ryyk blade (as well as the Bowcaster) as a primary weapon. Personally, I feel that given the history of this weapon it should be increased to AP1 or AP2, but also be Wookiee only (kinda off subject though).


As a Fencer, I find that I use the Vibroblade quite often. It is more of a situational weapon though. I use it when something has AP1 or higher and decent kinetic and stun resists. This of course varies from case to case. I also use it for those rare occasions when I am unbuffed and need to defend myself.


For the most part, that appears to be what they are doing (or at least attempting). The player crafted Geonosion pistols are often high damage because (partly due to limited uses on the schematic) they often contain Krayt tissue and any other high end loot that can be shoved in there during the crafting process (including yellow cubes). The DXR6-b only serves to fill a niche as well, from what I have seen. I rarely use mine, except for when the situation calls for it.



yay!
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