Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Some ideas on how to fix WS
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player-xyz
Mon Jan 31, 2005 7:27 pm
#1
First, this likley isn't for the player who either has multiple characters as purchased accounts, or for the player who produces crates of weapons and sells them unsliced. The patches on Test Center are a step in the right direction, but, as pointed out in that thread, it is hardly a solution. "Patch" is an appropriate term.
The problem with WS:
1) Skill points
2) Storage
Issue 1 is caused by a Master WS needing Master Smuggler and Merchant. There are some very easyoptionsto solve this problem:
a) Help the Smugglers, DROP unarmed IV as a requirement for Master Smuggler. They dropped requirements for Bounty Hunter and Politician, time to do the same for a skill point intensive and weak profession, or
b) Move the slicing skill of a Smuggler out of Master to 0040, or
c) Allow only Smugglers to use sliced weapons, or
d) Give WS more storage, freeing up skill ponts used in Merchant. Combat trees give skills that are common, so it is certainly within the realms of the game that vendor storage be added to the WS, or
e)Level the playing field, make ALL craftable items sliceable. Imagine buffs 30% better, brandy 30% more powerful.
Issue 2, storage. As already mentioned, the current fix is simply a patch. I really don't relish the idea of running from house to house to gather resources to build weapons. The game is suppose to be FUN, not TEDIOUS. Clicking on "sell" 500 times when my items expire is not fun.
a) Create a storage-only vendor that, as the name implies, store items only. No prices, no expiration. No more switching between "for sale" and "stockroom". Go ahead, put a limit on it, just make the limit high enough so that WS's that have played for a while can actually manage their resources without it being a chore. This could be an "Elite Warehouse" or something like that, as mentioned in the Test Patch thred.
As I stated, this is not for all weaponsmiths. However, it is very clear to me that Weaponsmith is in need of some changes.
weaponmaster88
Mon Jan 31, 2005 8:06 pm
#2
player-xyz wrote:
First, this likley isn't for the player who either has multiple characters as purchased accounts, or for the player who produces crates of weapons and sells them unsliced. The patches on Test Center are a step in the right direction, but, as pointed out in that thread, it is hardly a solution. "Patch" is an appropriate term.
The problem with WS:
1) Skill points
2) Storage
Issue 1 is caused by a Master WS needing Master Smuggler and Merchant. There are some very easyoptionsto solve this problem:
a) Help the Smugglers, DROP unarmed IV as a requirement for Master Smuggler. They dropped requirements for Bounty Hunter and Politician, time to do the same for a skill point intensive and weak profession, or
b) Move the slicing skill of a Smuggler out of Master to 0040, or
c) Allow only Smugglers to use sliced weapons, or
d) Give WS more storage, well weaponsmiths need vendors to sell stuff anyway so we'd still need merchant freeing up skill ponts used in Merchant. Combat trees give skills that are common, so it is certainly within the realms of the game that vendor storage be added to the WS, or
e)Level the playing field, make ALL craftable items sliceable. not really possible, "slicing" is like rewiringto make a weapon/armor less safe (looses condition quick) for more protection and/or dmg, you can't make food better by doing anything a chef couldn't already do except add spice mayb Imagine buffs 30% better, brandy 30% more powerful.
Issue 2, storage. As already mentioned, the current fix is simply a patch. I really don't relish the idea of running from house to house to gather resources to build weapons. The game is suppose to be FUN, not TEDIOUS. Clicking on "sell" 500 times when my items expire is not fun. <--- definetly not fun
a) Create a storage-only vendor that, as the name implies, store items only. No prices, no expiration. No more switching between "for sale" and "stockroom". Go ahead, put a limit on it, just make the limit high enough so that WS's that have played for a while can actually manage their resources without it being a chore. This could be an "Elite Warehouse" or something like that, as mentioned in the Test Patch thred. i like this idea a lot or even just a special house that takes mayb an extra lot but holds only storage space (backpacks and cabinets, not furniture) but a lot more then a regular house
As I stated, this is not for all weaponsmiths. However, it is very clear to me that Weaponsmith is in need of some changes.
samijx
Mon Jan 31, 2005 10:29 pm
#3
I agree that artisans ought to gain access to some sort of increased storage shed capabilityI'd love to see a brand new building made by architects called .... "A workshop" It can have a built-in workbench with cabinets specifically designed for resources. Perhaps we can re-name the doors in a similar way that we currently name backpacks and dump resources in them. Perhaps 10 cabinets with max 30 items per cabinet,plus 100items in theworkshop (Not within a cabinet) to provide space for crafting stations and othercrafting stuff, with minimal decorations for a total of 400 items. The workshop can take up 4 lots, which is reasonabel for 400 items. This would make crafting so much easier, and will not hurt the economy or other game aspects at all.
Just think about it
Combat types invest skill points and gain fighting power.
Medics invest skill points and gain healing power.
Scouting types invest skill points and gain hunting power.
Artisans invest skill points and ought to gainstorage power.
DaBarius
Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:07 am
#4
fixed
samijx wrote:
I agree that artisans ought to gain access to some sort of increased storage shed capabilityI'd love to see a brand new building made by architects called .... "A workshop" It can have a built-in workbench with cabinets specifically designed for resources. Perhaps we can re-name the doors in a similar way that we currently name backpacks and dump resources in them. Perhaps 10 cabinets with max 30 items per cabinet,plus 100items in theworkshop (Not within a cabinet) to provide space for crafting stations and othercrafting stuff, with minimal decorations for a total of 400 items. The workshop can take up 4 lots, which is reasonabel for 400 items. This would make crafting so much easier, and will not hurt the economy or other game aspects at all.
Just think about it
Combat types invest skill points and gain fighting power.
Medics invest skill points and gain healing power.
Scouting types invest skill points and gain hunting power.
Artisans invest skill points and gainALL power.
DaBarius
Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:14 am
#5
Storage is a big key for artisans, but we can't have everything.
Do not agree with you on the skill point issues you have.
I believe Weaponsmiths do not need smugglers... I sell way more unsliced weapons than sliced.. I have pretty much given up pre-slicing them.
Smugglers can slice weapons at 0400.
All craftable items slice-able?? hmmm.. sliced food?
SlaserX
Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:25 am
#6
I agree with storage, but we're getting alot of that in this new 12.2. Skill points is definatly not an issue for me. I'm a MWS, everything else is secondary. You dont need to be a slicer to be a MWS... I've got the surveying line, and am working on the vendors line of merchant, but that's all I really need. Slicing be damned I say!
Hurlobacca
Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:42 am
#7
Can't imagine why a WS would want to slice as well. We've already got enough boring/tedious things to do as it is with storage management, vendor stocking and restocking, and handcrafting weapons using loot components/enhancements. Not only that but smugglers also need to fill a role in the economy and they sure can't do it selling spices.
Keos
Tue Feb 01, 2005 2:57 am
#8
Why fixing something that is not broken ?
There is basicly no reason to change the skillpoint requirements for slicing, just because someone has not enough points for their template. Why not lowering skillpoints for TKA as well, so I can defend myself better when harvesting resources ?
This is stupid. There is no requirement for a Weaponsmith to slice their weapons. If you want it, take smuggler and use up the skillpoints or find yourself a Smuggler friend. It is good, that you cannot learn everything by yourself. This is a Multiplayer game and interacting with others is half of the fun.
Storage is allways a problem, but to be true, it is not as bad as a weaponsmith as others. Sure you need lots of different resources, but only small amounts. So if you don't have enough space, you don't need to harvest millions of units of a resource, one or two 100k stacks last quite a while. Sure it would be nice, if the stacksize of resources would increase, but the extended house storage is a step in the right direction.
All these things are not required and don't fix anything.
What should be fixed are some of the weird experimentations (like weapon stocks) and making the different experimentation lines more usefull and don't make damage the one and only (but this will hopefully be done in the combat upgrade).
I think the devs would have more pressing issues than these wishes. Better they should fix smugglers, so they can do more than just slicing, maing it a viable profession.
There is basicly no reason to change the skillpoint requirements for slicing, just because someone has not enough points for their template. Why not lowering skillpoints for TKA as well, so I can defend myself better when harvesting resources ?
This is stupid. There is no requirement for a Weaponsmith to slice their weapons. If you want it, take smuggler and use up the skillpoints or find yourself a Smuggler friend. It is good, that you cannot learn everything by yourself. This is a Multiplayer game and interacting with others is half of the fun.
Storage is allways a problem, but to be true, it is not as bad as a weaponsmith as others. Sure you need lots of different resources, but only small amounts. So if you don't have enough space, you don't need to harvest millions of units of a resource, one or two 100k stacks last quite a while. Sure it would be nice, if the stacksize of resources would increase, but the extended house storage is a step in the right direction.
All these things are not required and don't fix anything.
What should be fixed are some of the weird experimentations (like weapon stocks) and making the different experimentation lines more usefull and don't make damage the one and only (but this will hopefully be done in the combat upgrade).
I think the devs would have more pressing issues than these wishes. Better they should fix smugglers, so they can do more than just slicing, maing it a viable profession.
Augger
Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:49 am
#9
Keos wrote:
Why fixing something that is not broken ?
There is basicly no reason to change the skillpoint requirements for slicing, just because someone has not enough points for their template. Why not lowering skillpoints for TKA as well, so I can defend myself better when harvesting resources ?
This is stupid. There is no requirement for a Weaponsmith to slice their weapons. If you want it, take smuggler and use up the skillpoints or find yourself a Smuggler friend. It is good, that you cannot learn everything by yourself. This is a Multiplayer game and interacting with others is half of the fun.
Storage is allways a problem, but to be true, it is not as bad as a weaponsmith as others. Sure you need lots of different resources, but only small amounts. So if you don't have enough space, you don't need to harvest millions of units of a resource, one or two 100k stacks last quite a while. Sure it would be nice, if the stacksize of resources would increase, but the extended house storage is a step in the right direction.
All these things are not required and don't fix anything.
What should be fixed are some of the weird experimentations (like weapon stocks) and making the different experimentation lines more usefull and don't make damage the one and only (but this will hopefully be done in the combat upgrade).
I think the devs would have more pressing issues than these wishes. Better they should fix smugglers, so they can do more than just slicing, maing it a viable profession.
As to your comment about the need for tons of resounces ... try crafting/selling in the volumes I sell.
I agree with your point to a degree about the other attributes for experimentation.
Smugglers do in fact have a much larger role than just slicing. Granted, selling faction points, assisting in the demolishing of bases, slicing terminals, running decoy (for feign death in the DWB), and others isn't content enough ... Maybe folks should broaden their visions about what benefits a good smuggler that knows his profession can do.
player-xyz
Tue Feb 01, 2005 8:37 am
#10
If slicing isn't "required" for Weaponsmith on your server, that is wonderful. I do not WANT to slice. It is boring, takes up even more storage, and requires a ton of skill points. It adds work that really does nothing for my enjoyment of the game.
However, these are the basic facts:
1) A weapon sliced by a Master Smuggler can be up to 35% better (more typically 30%). Aside from Armorsmiths, no other crafting profession has this issue. My point on slicing all items was really tongue-in-cheek -- how long would a Chef be happy if their competition sold food 30% better? Or some Master Docs provided buffs 30% stronger or 30% longer? Or some Droids had 30% more exploding power? The complaining from all these other crafters would be huge, and rightfully so.Yet some players consider this to be not an issue for Weaponsmiths.
2) When I decided that I needed Master Smuggler to actually sell weapons, I had to buy a pistol from a vendor. Sure, I could craft a very nice pistol. But until it was speed sliced, it was of little value. Most of my crafting is done for my guild or my select customers. When they need a weapon, they are looking for a weapon that is very good, including the slice. I don't think it is at all unreasonable that a Master Weaponsmith is able to provide the highest quality weapons. But that is NOT the case. Without Smuggler, all I could do is give them 5-10 weapons and say, "find a smuggler and hope for a good slice."
3) There are two classes of Weaponsmith's that don't care about slicing. First, if you are able to sell crates of unsliced weapons on your server. Second, and this is quite a large group, are the Weaponsmith's that have multiple accounts. But for the Weaponsmith who wants to provide powerful weapons, and has only one account, slicing is an absolute requirement, at least on my server.
4) Having multiple accounts will not make me a better TKM , Commando, or Bounty Hunter. Having multiple accounts would make my Weaponsmith better by a large margin. That is why slicing needs to be fixed. If Unarmed Hit 3 was a Master Rifleman skill, and let's assume it adds 20-30% dmg over unarmed hit 2, then a TKM would need Master Rifle. That doesn't make any sense. And, in that case, multiple characters would not help. So I would say, yes, TKM would need more skill points or move the skill from Master Rifle to TKM. But a Weaponsmith can make weapons 30% better only if they have Master Smuggler, and multiple characters DO solve the problem.
Muzz
Tue Feb 01, 2005 3:59 pm
#11
I tend to agree withWS being able to slice their own weapons, after all why not? We did craft them after all, if anyone knows how to make them better it's us.
BUT, this should only be done if Smugglers get some love to their profession. We can't expect to take something away from their profession and leaving them even more bereft than they already are.
I have been a long-term advocate of time specific bonus trees to professions. Perhaps if you have been a Master Whatever for three months you can open up 'enhanced skill' trees. You gain skills this way (at a normal skill point cost) by being dedicated to your profession over the long term. WS slicing could perhaps fit into this scenario.
AspiringBountyHunter
Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:22 pm
#12
player-xyz wrote:
First, this likley isn't for the player who either has multiple characters as purchased accounts, or for the player who produces crates of weapons and sells them unsliced. The patches on Test Center are a step in the right direction, but, as pointed out in that thread, it is hardly a solution. "Patch" is an appropriate term.
The problem with WS:
1) Skill points
2) Storage
Issue 1 is caused by a Master WS needing Master Smuggler and Merchant. There are some very easyoptionsto solve this problem:
a) Help the Smugglers, DROP unarmed IV as a requirement for Master Smuggler. They dropped requirements for Bounty Hunter and Politician, time to do the same for a skill point intensive and weak profession, or
b) Move the slicing skill of a Smuggler out of Master to 0040, or
c) Allow only Smugglers to use sliced weapons, or
d) Give WS more storage, freeing up skill ponts used in Merchant. Combat trees give skills that are common, so it is certainly within the realms of the game that vendor storage be added to the WS, or
e)Level the playing field, make ALL craftable items sliceable. Imagine buffs 30% better, brandy 30% more powerful.
Issue 2, storage. As already mentioned, the current fix is simply a patch. I really don't relish the idea of running from house to house to gather resources to build weapons. The game is suppose to be FUN, not TEDIOUS. Clicking on "sell" 500 times when my items expire is not fun.
a) Create a storage-only vendor that, as the name implies, store items only. No prices, no expiration. No more switching between "for sale" and "stockroom". Go ahead, put a limit on it, just make the limit high enough so that WS's that have played for a while can actually manage their resources without it being a chore. This could be an "Elite Warehouse" or something like that, as mentioned in the Test Patch thred.
As I stated, this is not for all weaponsmiths. However, it is very clear to me that Weaponsmith is in need of some changes.
First off, a weaponsmith has no need of master smuggler. That is an option that a few opt to take but it desn't mean that a non-smuggler weaponsmith can't compete with a weaponsmith/smuggler. To be honest, I think the non-smuggler WS is the better choice as you don't have weapons that are made useless with bad slices and therefore reduces overhead cost.
Merchant. Yes merchant helps alot, but if you're willing to work off of one vendor, it doesn't take that many skill points to get there. The biggest thing is if you want todrop a merchant tent then you have to get one tree of merchant completed.
Stoarge issues. That has alot of people hurting, but it hurts crafters the most.
player-xyz
Tue Feb 01, 2005 6:53 pm
#13
Thanks for all the comments. For those of you who are able to sell unsliced weapons, please keep in mind that not all servers are the same. I am neither a new Weaponsmith nor a new player, and on Flurry unsliced weapons are few and far between. The business model which works on your server may not work on all servers. Also, the issue is somewhat mitigated if a player has multiple characters. I could spend another $15/month and my problem as a Weaponsmith disappears.
I've generally been impressed with the ability of the SWG developers to improve the game mechanicsover time. Perhaps they will recognize this as a legitimate issue and make some changes, or perhaps they see Weaponsmithing and Slicing working as intended. Time will tell.
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