Weaponsmith Archive
Thread: Resource gating on bloodfin
have all of the chemical, gas and mineral information. This amounts to
basically 6 months of information on resources... It seems to me that
after 6 months there should be at least a minimum stat level achieved
for a particular schematic. During this time it would seem that at least
certian minimum values should have spawned, unless of course there is
either somethign wrong with the schematic requirement, the resource is
not spawning frequently enough or the resource in capped incorrectly.
To make it easy to judge the relative value of a resource, I add up the
values of the required stats and divide by the number of stats to get
a number from 1-1000. It would seem to follow that a minimum for 1 and
2 stat required materials there should at least 700+ resource choice.
If you were to make that a grade, it would be a C. Since I'm a weapon
smith who only makes ranged weapons, I'll use the schematics I'm familar
with. Also note I'm referring to resource that have spawned on Bloodfin.
This inconsistancey with resource quality leads to situations where the
non advance weapon component is better than the advanced version, in this
case weapon scopes. It also leads to many examples where an advance gun
is only build with 50-60% eff, while a lesser gun built with 95% has a
higher damage and faster speed!
Also note that some of the schematic seemed to be switched.
Adv. Projectile Feed and Adv. Projectile Pistol barrel resouce
requirements should be switch to stay in line with the Adv.
Projectile Rifle barrel! Both the amount used and the type used
and the stats required heavily lends to this!
Another note, projectile feed mechanism provides less damage to a
weapon than a power handler, the optional damage enhancers for
projectiles is significantly less than the krayt tissues used in
power!
In () will be how many resources of that type that has spawned. Basically
teh number of choices avail. Example Corellian wood (>40). That means
that there were more than 40 different spawns of correllian wood over
time that has spawned and thus providing a choice to craft with. If the
needed stat of a resource is low and the number in the () is high, then
the resource needs to be changed or the schematic changed to take a
different resource! If the needed stat is low and the number in () is
low, then that resource is most likely not spawning frequently enough!
In most cases, gems and iron seem to spawn to infrequently. It seems to
me that over a 6 month period a resource should spawn 10-15 times...
Advanced Blaster Pistol Barrel
Rhodium steel best rating has been 234. (10)
Ryll gem best rating has been 612. (5)
Rhodium steel best rating has been 234. (10)
Ryll gem best rating has been 612. (5)
Duranium steel best rating has been 633. (7)
Carbonite Steel best rating has been 680. (8)
Axidite Iron best rating has been 640. (9)
Axidite Iron best rating has been 662. (9)
Plumbum Iron best rating has been 523. (10)
Best rating on any wood has been 670. (>400)
Best rating on any Corellian wood has been 471. (>40)
Beam Rifle
DL44 Metal Pistol
EE3 Carbine
Flame Thrower
Rocket Launcher
Striker Pistol
Light Lightning Cannon
Best rating of any steel has been 685. (>100)
DRX6 Carbine
Titanium Aluminum best rating has been 639. (8)
E11 Rifle
Power5 Pistol
Republic Blaster
Plumbum Iron best rating has been 518. (10)
Polonium Iron best rating has been 540. (11)
Ditanium Steel best rating has been 646. (8)
Ditanium Steel best rating has been 646. (8)
Scatter Pistol
Doonium Iron best rating has been 681. (7)
Plumbum Iron best rating has been 518. (10)
Neutronium Steel best rating has been 646. (14)
Chromium aluminum best rating has been 480. (8)
Polonium Iron best rating has been 540. (11)
Ditanium Steel best rating has been 646. (8)
Note that only 2 out of 35 ranged weapons, not counting CDEF, would
have a B rating. i.e. All materials used rated 800+. 21 out of the
35 weapons would have failing grades.
This is basically one third of the items that weaponsmith can make... I'm quite
sure that every other projession as well as the other 2 crafting trees in weapon-
smith have horrible resource gating issues as well!
LemyDaBigHairyWookie wrote:
I hate to say it but this 'gating' is by design... minerals are set to have stats set in a certain range... OQ is the ONLY exception as this can be any number... my stocks of 8 OQ plumbum and 993 OQ plumbum are proof enough of that... the OTHER stats will fall within a certain range at all time... yes it sucks in most cases and we have been trying to get the ranges increased some... BUT its how they chose to set the schematics...
I am aware of that, doesn't mean that I agree with it. This extra level of complexity really only hides the real value of resources... It is not intuitive obvious that rhodium steel with 49 conductivity and 600 shock resistance would be the best metal to build barrels with. Thus a learning curve has been added that new players much conquer in order to understand an resources value... I supposed have all sort of different limits for resources gives developers a chance to change thsoe limits to decrease or increase the power of a given set of schematics that are dependant on that reosurces... Seems to me that the schematic itself would be the better wa yto fine tune something... As most resources are used in more than 1 schematic...
From my perspective, the only reason for this extra complexity is to somehow enrich the player environment. For me it doesn't...
Dova wrote:
A new smith should be mining everything that spawns that they need that is better than what they have. When something better spawns, they should mine the new resource. That is how one accumulates a great stash of resources. I really fail to see your point. It's not up to the devs to spoon feed us on how to accumulate resources.
*raised eyebrow* Wow... Such a minimalistic response to my request for a simpler abstraction of an unecessary complicated resource system... 
What sweet irony. 
To really abstract my point, I would ask whether you like poker better than chess... Both games are very strategic, with the primary difference being information. With chess you have full access to all of the information. With poker you don't. Right now SWG is primarily a game of poker, albet one that takes months to learn all the rules. Further more it is a game of poker in which even the basic rules are hidden from you...
Ultimately, for this game to survive it will need to attract players on a rate equal to or greater than the rate at which it loses players. That in essense turns new players into the game's life blood. I'm the serious gamer in my group of friends... Seven of my friends have tried it, only 1 played for more than a month. The last has also quit now after playign about 5 months... The complaint from all of them was the game was to complex, to boring and it had nothing fun in it. They are all roleplayers, while I'm more of a board game/war gamers...
If they are find free MUDs more enjoyable than SWG because of complexity... Then the game is alienating a rather large group of gamers! Which comes back to the ability to attract new players...
cwhooks wrote:
*raised eyebrow* Wow... Such a minimalistic response to my request for a simpler abstraction of an unecessary complicated resource system...
But it really isn't complicated. If there's better stuff out, you mine it. How is that not simple?
What's complicated is the fact that a Diatium copper with 900cd/500oq is better than one with 800cd/900oq for your ABPH, but that has nothing to do with resource gating 
I disagree and I've stated in some length on what I back my opinion up with... You provide nothing...
stryfex03 wrote:
cwhooks wrote:
*raised eyebrow* Wow... Such a minimalistic response to my request for a simpler abstraction of an unecessary complicated resource system...
But it really isn't complicated. If there's better stuff out, you mine it. How is that not simple?
What's complicated is the fact that a Diatium copper with 900cd/500oq is better than one with 800cd/900oq for your ABPH, but that has nothing to do with resource gating
Suburbia wrote:
are resources gated the same on all servers?
cwhooks wrote:
I disagree and I've stated in some length on what I back my opinion up with... You provide nothing...
stryfex03 wrote
You haven't provided much. Only that some resources are gated and probably haven't spawned enough.
There's nothing complex about that. So you think all the gating should be done away with? Why stop there? Why not get rid of all the different types? No need for Mythra, Desh, or PlatiniteCopper.. just Copper, since without gating everything will be the same anyway, right?
If you don't have it, mine it. If you have it and something better is around, mine it. Simple. I see nothing complex about the current system and you haven't provided enough backing.
I'm sorry to hear that you have a reading comprehension problem. To make it easier, I'll summarize a few points...
Some basic components are better than their advanced components (blaster rifle barrles). This is an inherent problem with resource gating. In the case of the basic component, the non named resources gives you a wide enough range to avoid resource gating.
Developers imply that resource gating is working and that the problem is most likely a cause of not having a good resource spawn yet. Given my study was over 6 months (8 months now) and the problem still persists... There is a problem... If you can not get resources good enough in 8 months to make an advance component better than it's basic, then there is a fundemental flaw in the system.
Lack of information. If the gatign limits were documented for earch resource type (subtype?) it would provide new players with enough information to quickly judge and rate resources. It would also allow for more professional and information communication between developers and the community.
Currently gating happens at to many places to get a clear pictures of system interaction. You have gates on the actual schematic, on components on resources and with our tools and skills. The complex web of interactions makes it extremely difficult to balance anything, let alone determine where the problem really lies. It also is an system that encourages side effects (i.e. chaning one thing has a ripple effect on other systmes and items).
Is resource gating *the* problem. No, it is really just a component of *a* problem in which we are only able to see the symptoms. By removing resource gatign we simplify the problem and move towards an more abstract system that is more intuitive. Having the name resources would stull be viable as it increase variablility due to spawning issues (and further gating due to spawn patterns).
By the same token, they could jsut publish all of the gates on all of the resource types and that information woould give us a better ability to further drill down into the problem.
As it currently standing for blaster rifle barrels, there is a gatign problem, the problem may sololy rest with one particular gate (resource, spawn, schematic, tools, experimentation, etc..) or it may be the interaction of a couple gates (say resource, schematic and experimentation).