Weaponsmith Archive

Thread: Well after a lot of testing. Base DPS means nothing. Read inside.

grifta
Mon May 16, 2005 11:31 am
#1

As most smith's we were focusing on increasing the base dps to make the best weapon. Well now apparantly max damage is all that matters related to the amount of damage dealt. At first I thought AP was still in-game but it was just that the max damage of a weapon dictates the damage dealt. Now anyone that has a modified speed of 2 or less on their weapon will hit at the same speed as someone with less than 1. So my tests proved that my 949 max damage Scatter Pistol does 599 damage on range shot while my 947 damage laser rifle does 598. So we are back to 10 points to damage and 2 points to speed crafting, just like preCU instead of condition just put rest into speed.



CorenLanra
Mon May 16, 2005 11:41 am
#2



grifta wrote:
As most smith's we were focusing on increasing the base dps to make the best weapon. Well now apparantly max damage is all that matters related to the amount of damage dealt. At first I thought AP was still in-game but it was just that the max damage of a weapon dictates the damage dealt. Now anyone that has a modified speed of 2 or less on their weapon will hit at the same speed as someone with less than 1. So my tests proved that my 949 max damage Scatter Pistol does 599 damage on range shot while my 947 damage laser rifle does 598. So we are back to 10 points to damage and 2 points to speed crafting, just like preCU instead of condition just put rest into speed.





I take it delay timers on specials aren't affected by speed then? I have been meaning to make some super slow, high dmg weapons to see if that was the case but haven't had time. I need to check with Iebas, I know he was doing some major testing with carbines also.

Also For elemental weapons we can do 10pts dmg, 2pt elemental



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Amizar
Mon May 16, 2005 11:51 am
#3



grifta wrote:
Now anyone that has a modified speed of 2 or less on their weapon will hit at the same speed as someone with less than 1.





How exactly are you measuring fractions of a second to be reporting this?

And FYI, other tests have shown that the cooldown time on specials is a multiplier of the mod weapon speed. DPS is hardly negligible.



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Kregi
Mon May 16, 2005 1:07 pm
#4


You are right Hawkke DPS means absolutely nothing. I have been testing out various rifles some have a mod speed of 1.8, 1.7, 1.65, 1.6, 1.5 and 1.49. I fire almost every shot with an interval of 3 seconds, according to my timestamps. I have tried alternating between kneecap shot, headshot, advanced startle shot and a few others. With the lower speed weapons i get 2 second intervals more often on my timestamps but it still says 3 seconds on other peoples sometimes. My rifle speed is 86(65+21 in tapes), not sure what my general ranged speed is but i am marksman4004 master rifles. DPS on your guns means zilch. Take a 500-1000 weapon with a base dps of300 which fires lets say twice in 2 seconds, with one special it hits for 2000 then 2nd special it hits for 1700, this weapon therefore does 3700/2s or 1850damage /second. Then using a second gun with 450-950 damage and base dps of 350do the same specials. The firstspecial hits for 1800 and the second for 1500 thereby doing 3300damage/2s or 1650damage /second. So even with a higher dps weapon u r doing LESS damage over time. Action is a much larger factor then speed because if your action runs out you cant fire those specials anymore.


Mapiasal


Message Edited by Kregi on 05-16-2005 08:17 PM



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grifta
Mon May 16, 2005 1:58 pm
#5






jason67 wrote:





grifta wrote:

These is not based on cooldown skills. Fractions of a second mean nothing its either every 1 second or 2. According to timestamp.






Are you spamming the same special over and over or are you running through a series of specials, because if you are not rotating your specials then you are not testing the DPS of the weapon but only the warmup/cooldown delays which will be the same for your weapons as they are set delays.


The only way to truely test the DPS of a weapon is to use specials on different timers, that is where DPS comes into play.








It's based on different specials. Cycling through specials like critical shot/torso shot/range shot/lethal shot all on different timers.



As Mapiasal ( Kregi ) has pointed out with hard facts that max damage is all that really matters now once again.



Ipseck
Mon May 16, 2005 2:27 pm
#6


Try coming up with some numbers and proof of your claims. There's nothing in your post that sounds the least bit substantial. Ofcourse damage dealt has alot to do with max damage. It has alot to do with minimum damage too though. Ofcourse a higher damage weapon will do more damage. Dur. A faster, lower damageweapon will do lower damage faster though, improving its damage per second, making it a better all-around weapon. I actually tested this lastnight. A good friend of mine in game came to me with these same claims. He also claimed that speed mod clothing wasn't working. I said BS and went out to prove him wrong. And I did. Keep in mind all my weapons are below 2.0 speed except for my de10.


I tested my dl44xt w/o skillmod clothes on autoattacking (ranged hit) a picket. It did 668 damage each hit, 8 attacks in 17 seconds.


I tested my dl44xt w/ skillmod clothes (+13 speed +25 accuracy) on an identical mob and dealt 772 damage each hit, 8 attacks in 14 seconds. That shows you that speed mods work, that speed below 2.0 works and that accuracy can be a huge factor.


All this 'dps doesn't count' crap is a bunch of shenanigans.


And yes, specials have their own timers, but they are also affected by weapon speed.

Message Edited by Ipseck on 05-16-2005 04:28 PM





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mindspat
Mon May 16, 2005 3:40 pm
#7


Well....


My current template consists of Jedi/Pistoleer skills.


I can say that the refresh time DOES makea difference when dealing dmg. I believe my static attack rate is around once every 3 seconds or so although if I use /forceSpeed (increases speed all combat related skills - only affects refresh timer) I can attack almost once every second.


Using a slower pistol I've noticed that I would not always be able to attack if I attempted to attack faster the speed of the weapon. I'm not how accurate my statements are although it was an observation without putting much time into it.


My pistols base stats are around: spd 2.2 max 998dps 360 - with speed pup it's over 500 base dps *edit: Featherweight FWG5 PreCU conversion weapon


I would be willing to test this further if someone wants to contact me ingame.


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Name: Mindspat

Message Edited by mindspat on 05-16-2005 03:44 PM




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john_p
Mon May 16, 2005 5:48 pm
#8

And the debate goes on ....


I agree with the original poster. For a primarily specials-based profession, DPS means little. Until you fall back to Ranged Shot, when you run out of action, perhaps ..


It's extremely difficult to test the effect of mixing specials and the delay between them (especially cross-profession ones) so until the devs confirm one way or another (which I doubt they will) we won't be able to find out. I can only rely on my gut feeling, which is that it's not radically effected once you have a low enough speed weapon and high enough speed modifier, which we can assume 90% of players will have both.


We also don't know if the combat system rounds to the nearest second or not (maybe a rifle fires 0.25s quicker than another one, but we won't know as the timestamps are to the nearest second)


I've fallen back to the highest max dmg weapon (my best weapon before the CU hit) and am finding it to have the highest damage output so far.





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Cpl_Fisher
Mon May 16, 2005 6:34 pm
#9






mindspat wrote:


Well....


My current template consists of Jedi/Pistoleer skills.


I can say that the refresh time DOES makea difference when dealing dmg. I believe my static attack rate is around once every 3 seconds or so although if I use /forceSpeed (increases speed all combat related skills - only affects refresh timer) I can attack almost once every second.


Using a slower pistol I've noticed that I would not always be able to attack if I attempted to attack faster the speed of the weapon. I'm not how accurate my statements are although it was an observation without putting much time into it.


My pistols base stats are around: spd 2.2 max 998dps 360 - with speed pup it's over 500 base dps *edit: Featherweight FWG5 PreCU conversion weapon


I would be willing to test this further if someone wants to contact me ingame.


Server: Bria


Name: Mindspat


Message Edited by mindspat on 05-16-2005 03:44 PM





uhm, what box does /forcespeed come from?


I might just go jedi for it!





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Starcloud
Mon May 16, 2005 6:39 pm
#10

I would like to point out that Damage Per Second is only an *estimate*. I always prefer to use the raw numbers over DPS. The only thing I use DPS for when comparing weapons is when I'm evaluating buying a sword; it's very hard to tell, now, when a sword is a Fencer weapon or a Swordsman weapon. Whichever sword has a much higher 'your DPS' value over the base dps value is the one I want to pick up and use.


Ainya_ShaAni
Mon May 16, 2005 11:55 pm
#11

why dont we just make weapons with hi dam! and hi dps......... use a couple of 250 krayt tissue problem fixed .




im very wasted right now lol


grifta
Tue May 17, 2005 12:31 am
#12

These is not based on cooldown skills. Fractions of a second mean nothing its either every 1 second or 2. According to timestamp.



jason67
Tue May 17, 2005 12:40 am
#13






grifta wrote:

These is not based on cooldown skills. Fractions of a second mean nothing its either every 1 second or 2. According to timestamp.






Are you spamming the same special over and over or are you running through a series of specials, because if you are not rotating your specials then you are not testing the DPS of the weapon but only the warmup/cooldown delays which will be the same for your weapons as they are set delays.


The only way to truely test the DPS of a weapon is to use specials on different timers, that is where DPS comes into play.







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