Teras Kasi Archive

This post is to question the merit of the TKA correspondant thunderwolf. Developers will not listen to you if you dont present a non-biased argument. In my opinion, his arguments seem extremely biased as to create TKA to be the ultimate profession.

Thunderwolf quoted:

"We would all like to have an answer as to why this was increased so drastically. From basic player testing, we find that the HAM costs to using this move have increased 500 - 600%. For many of us, using this move more than twice will bring us to near incapacitation. This is a highly frustrating nerf for our profession because it hamstrings our most useful special. Considering there are other professions that can use similar knockdown moves for considerably less HAM, you can see our concern."

An answer as to why this was nerfed? I understand that because you were given a taste of PVE godliness, and now that they took it away from you, you feel violated that a change this drastic was taken. But does it seem to strike you as unfair when TKA can solo 3 red connpcs at once by stacking knockdown? Knockdown completely renders your opoonent helpless without them being able to fight back. No other profession could do this pre-patch except MAYBE the pistoleer which is probably going to get nerfed. Knockdown should only be used about 2 or 3 times in a fight. Allowing a TKA to continuously stack this as it was pre-patch renders the TKA invulnerable. How is anything supposed to fight a TKA then?

Thunderwolf wrote:

"Lower the cost of specials across the board. Teras Kasi Artists are supposed to be masters melee combat. Once we get in melee distance of a ranged combatant, there should be no doubt about the outcome. The only way we can currently win close combat is by chaining specials. "

Masters of melee combat? I don't know if you read this in a description or you merely assume this because of your previous godliness in PVE, but if TKA were the masters of melee combat then how are the swordsmen, fencers, and pikemen supposed to even compete with you guys? This wouldn't be fair. The ratio of how many teras kasi players to fencers, pikemen, or swordsmen is atleast 4 to 1. That means for every4 teras kasi players before I would even see one of either fencer, swordsman, or pikeman (this was pre-patch). Evidently, this means that Teras Kasi has a dramatic advantage over any other melee class. I don't think this is how the game should be played. I feel that every melee class should have its advantages and disadvantages.

Furthermore, the pre-requisites for Teras Kasi is only unarmed specialist. A bounty-hunter requires master scout, and master marksman. That is more than 8 times the amount of skill boxes required (if you include the master box and the novice box which costs 15 points itself). Because of this, it would be understandable that amaster bounty-hunter should have a little more advantage over a teras kasi. But a teras-kasi with other abilities, such as master medic, might have an upper hand above a bounty-hunter. To my understanding this is how the game should be played. Instead, I see many TKA who have master Teras Kasi and Master Rifleman who can annihilate any other profession (pre-patch), with a bit of points left over to spend. Because of the low requirements, it is hardly justified to say that a Teras Kasi should be the master of melee combat when all the other melee combats require the same amount of pre-requisites.

I understand your frustration as TKA because of the close combat drawback, but you need to present a more justified argument rather than sounding like someone biased. No one will listen to you if you try to increase everything about TKA.

An example for a suggestion: Melee classes should have a bit of faster run speeds than ranged attackers, but ranged attackers should be able to use suppression fire to make this fair.

For every advantage that you give one class, you need to give the other classes a way to fight it.

Trolls should be banned from boards. Torm needs the following in no particular order:
1. A clue
2. A brain
3. A life

Trolls should be banned from boards. Torm needs the following in no particular order:
1. A clue
2. A brain
3. A life

(I suggest 2, followed by 1, and last but not least 3 for him)

Elanae wrote:

"Trolls should be banned from boards. Torm needs the following in no particular order:
1. A clue
2. A brain
3. A life "

Yes. I'm the troll when I try to present a proper argument to fixing your class. Why don't you point out an argument as to what is wrong with my post rather than flaming?

"Teras Kasi are lethal, nearly impossible to knock down or unbalance...Facing an opponent armed with ranged weapons, high-level abilities enable his or her to evade blaster fire and close in quickly, bringing him or her enemy swiftly to the ground. "

Torm) Make sure you are informed before you go about posting, moving on:

KD Issue) You are completely off here. BH's could solo MULTIPLE red-cons, and still can. Smugglers can, and still can. Pistoleers can solo half an army of red cons, and still can. And Teras Kasi could solo a multiple red-cons, and have had the ability stripped.

The HAM cost on the TKA knockdown has always been higher than the other professions, but it has never had a significantly higher chance to knockdown.(well I shouldn't say never, it did before the first nerf) So the only other factor that would come into play is how fast the knockdown can be performed. Every TKA hits the speed cap halfway through their tree. So do pistoleers, so do BH's, so do smugglers. Speed is a moot point, though it is slightly easier for a TKA to achieve the speed cap.

Melee) Masters of melee against ranged players obviously, or that's how I understand it contextually. All other references to his "master of melee" phrase deal with range, he obviously isnn't implying that we should be stronger than the other melee professions. Read between the lines... but not too much .

Teras Kasi are popular because it's an idea that has been MADE popular by EQ, D&D, MUDs, whatever. It was a pre-established idea, and for one reason or another has always attracted more players. (As of now Swordsman are stronger than TKAs).

Okay, so what you're trying to tell me is that because a BH sits in a camp, he should be able to kill everyone else? No, the BH isn't paying extra skill points to completely demolish everyone, he's paying them for VERSATILITY. He is effective at any range, though not to the point of being superior at every range. We pay less skill points to SPECIALIZE in a very narrow range(0-3m), and what Thunderwulf was asking for is that to show in combat.

Basically the idea behind having 30 some professions isn't that it's simply about such and such is the best or better than another profession. It's that each profession has a role in the game, and they should be able to fill that role through skills given to them. Currently, TKA's are not receiving the melee advantage that ought to be due to them.

Summary) You say that it should be a give and take relationship. But basically, TKA's are giving and giving. Due to recent changes, our prowess in melee has been decreased greatly. We STILL have a huge ranged disadvantage, increased greatly by the suppression fire fix. But even upon reaching our range we still have a disadvantage, which is what Thunderwulf is trying to balance out.

Do not come on the TKA forum and troll. Your logic fails continually(Standard fallacy of justifying an argument with the same argument) and your proof is invalid. Re-read the context of Thunderwulf's posts, test the abilities, and THEN you can try and prove our correspondent is bias.

Torm, do you even play this game ? That you dont play a TK is quite clear, reading your post.

Please, only criticize a correspondant, if you know, what you are talking about.

Only a few of your comments:
>>Knockdown completely renders your opoonent helpless without them being able to fight back. No other profession could do this pre-patch except MAYBE the pistoleer which is probably going to get nerfed.<<
How about BH, Smuggler, carabineer, who all get *ranged* KD for less HAM ?

>>Because of this, it would be understandable that amaster bounty-hunter should have a little more advantage over a teras kasi. But a teras-kasi with other abilities, such as master medic, might have an upper hand above a bounty-hunter.<<
Please, explain to me how a TKM with medic has an upper hand against an bounty-hunter ?
Range rules at the moment in this game. If there is a counter to it, please tell me ... :-)

>>An example for a suggestion: Melee classes should have a bit of faster run speeds than ranged attackers, but ranged attackers should be able to use suppression fire to make this fair.<<

Great comment (non-sarcastic). The problem is:
ranged attackers have suppression fire.
Melee classes arent any faster than ranged attackers.

You are completly right: This is not fair.

Most of the TK problems arent "special" ones. They are melee problems as a whole. But our corrospondent should focus on this class. Thanks Thunderwolf, by the way for your work and dedication.

Alright, Torm, you obviously have not played a Teras Kasi Artist, so I don't see why you can come to such assumptions. Let's qoute you, instead.

On Knockdown:

"An answer as to why this was nerfed? I understand that because you were given a taste of PVE godliness, and now that they took it away from you, you feel violated that a change this drastic was taken. But does it seem to strike you as unfair when TKA can solo 3 red con npcs at once by stacking knockdown? Knockdown completely renders your opoonent helpless without them being able to fight back. No other profession could do this pre-patch except MAYBE the pistoleer which is probably going to get nerfed. Knockdown should only be used about 2 or 3 times in a fight. Allowing a TKA to continuously stack this as it was pre-patch renders the TKA invulnerable. How is anything supposed to fight a TKA then?"

I attained Teras Kasi Master before the patch and I will tell you, I could not solo 3 red cons, I could not solo three baz nitches who were yellow cons. You say knockdown should only be used about 2 or 3 times a fight, and I tell you that's impossible post patch. 2-3 times is a 400-700 HAM cost without vibro knucklers, with vibro knucklers that's a 1400-2200 HAM cost. If there is anything that needs to be knocked down more than once, you're dead anyway. No, post-patch this is a useless skill, no Teras Kasi would use it. They should have removed it all-together if they didn't want us using it.

"Knockdown completely renders your opoonent helpless without them being able to fight back."

You're pretty observant. I think that's the point of knockdown. Now tell me, what's the point of knockdown hurting the Teras Kasi more than one hit?

Masters of Melee Combat:

"Masters of melee combat? I don't know if you read this in a description or you merely assume this because of your previous godliness in PVE, but if TKA were the masters of melee combat then how are the swordsmen, fencers, and pikemen supposed to even compete with you guys? This wouldn't be fair. The ratio of how many teras kasi players to fencers, pikemen, or swordsmen is atleast 4 to 1. That means for every 4 teras kasi players before I would even see one of either fencer, swordsman, or pikeman (this was pre-patch). Evidently, this means that Teras Kasi has a dramatic advantage over any other melee class. I don't think this is how the game should be played. I feel that every melee class should have its advantages and disadvantages."

If you follow the mythos of the Star Wars universe and the continuity the devs have continually tried to uphold. As well as descriptions in the user guide, dev related posts, and in game refrences. Yes, we are masters of melee combat, and taking into account what I said above, we should be.

On the rest of your post:

I'll say one thing, Thunderwolf has made suggestions to increase the viability of melee combat oriented professions as a whole. Read week two isssues, specifically near the end. And I would suggest you read a bit more before you write, it will keep the flaming away.

Torm wrote:

------------------

Yes. I'm the troll when I try to present a proper argument to fixing your class. Why don't you point out an argument as to what is wrong with my post rather than flaming?

-------------------

Torm there is no argument there. You are just laughably dead wrong and highly misinformed, like saying just cos I got bigger rims my car will run faster in a 1/4 mile. But I do agree on one part of your post... you are a troll.

Streetracer81 wrote:

"Trolls should be banned from boards. Torm needs the following in no particular order:
1. A clue
2. A brain
3. A life

(I suggest 2, followed by 1, and last but not least 3 for him)"

Streetracers should be banned from mmorpg forums. The following reasons in no particular priorityorder:

1. They don't know enough about mmorpgs to talk

2. They try to pick a name that makes them sound like they actualy have a life when ironically they have enough time to post on an mmorpg forum.

3. The ground-effect lights don't look cool on an '82 corolla, sorry my friend put the stock exhaust back on, you're actually losing power with the big exhaust that sounds like crap

Torm and what the hell you are driving? I bet my sweet ride would take you any day of the week suck guy.

Torm, stating a problem, opinion, quoting facts to support your opinion, and presenting a resonable solution is not a bad thing as you seem to think. This is considered standard persuasion techniques and we teach these skills to 6th graders in middle school language arts classes. Of course the opinion is biased, IT'S A BLOODY OPINION. An opinion without bias is not a persuasive argument because it calls for no change, the whole point of having a correspondant is to have an advocate who can persuade the devs to find the best solution possible to the problems we are having.

I agree with you on the fact that there are just too many TKA. In the Star Wars Universe the Teras Kasi were a secret society. Just walking down the streets of Coruscant, a person would not expect to see a Teras Kasi at all, let alone spot a master of the art. The XP requirements should be raised considerably. The difference between a master brawlers unarmed skills and that of a TKM should be a HUGE difference and not even be comparable. We never fealt godly at all, as melee fighters we knew our limits and more than 1 red was a fearful site for us. But now a group of 3 light blues can take out a TKA, which was never intended.

However, as to your statement about bounty hunters: no game is perfect in any right or else there wouldn't be 10 bounty hunters to every Teras Kasi and 4 Teras Kasi to every swordsman. Besides, with all the prerequisites for BH nearly all bounty hunters are clones of eachother. Bounty hunters are rarely varied which is also a sad thing and causes them to be lame and dumb. Not everyone IRL can handle being a BH just as not everyone IRL can handle being a Teras Kasi. The prerequisites for BH were not put into play to make their class more difficult to obtain. They were placed in an attempt to discourage people from joining the class since they knew the majority of people wanted to take that class before the game was near even the first beta. They already get HUGE rewards for being a BH, as they get so many extras for pistol training and carbine training, this is their reward. TKA, however, no longer have any reward for our preserverance through a long and difficult training.

Let me add that your statement:"No other profession could do this pre-patch except MAYBE the pistoleer which is probably going to get nerfed." is completely false and shows a lack of research into the topic at hand. FYI nearly ALL marksman in the game have a knockdown attack. This leaves the melee fighters without a special attack that was meant to be a type of "signature" for us. Nobody in the game should be able to do a "signature" better than the groups whom that "signature" was intended for, as the ranged fighters do by performing their attacks from as much as 64 meters away without any penalties. You have stated:

Knockdown should only be used about 2 or 3 times in a fight. Allowing a TKA to continuously stack this as it was pre-patch renders the TKA invulnerable. How is anything supposed to fight a TKA then?

In this case, why should a ranged fighter have this ability when they already have an advantage by doing it from great distances. Ranged fighters have no more of a right to stack this than TKA, in fact we have a much greater right to it than they do as we need it to keep them in an attacking range and they can simply kite us without even using it. Having them "out-signature" us with our own attack just adds insult to injury. We were having these problems pre-patch and the devs just made it worse.

ask for everything in the hopes that you get a little.

it's good to have a biased correspondent.

if you would like him to be a little less so, ASK him and explain to him why you'd like him to try another approach.

Lay off Thunderwulf. There's a difference between caring and biased. He's also only the messenger. He compiled what folks here asked for. Blame all of us as TK, not Thunderwulf.

I also echo the sentiment that until you can walk a mile in our shoes, you keep your judgement of Thunderwulf, TKA's in general, and anybody else you don't know anything about to yourself.

FYI the ONLY class the knockdown nerf has effected is TK. BH especially have found ways around their own version of the HAM increase (knockdown w cdefs).Pistoleers still have the best melee knockdown in the *game*.

You know, uninformed posts like yours are the reason we got nerfed several times now. How 'bout all of us TKs start crying for nerfs in whatever profession you are starting (I'd say mastered in but I find that highly doubtful with your attitude)?

As for parity with other melees - that's what we're seeking. The same knockdown that was abused by some was also what allowed the majority of the TK population handle white cons. By nerfing it so we cannot take yellows and reds, they also nerfed it so without workarounds and supporting professions like medic and brawler, we can't handle white cons.

I repeat, you have a problem with TKs in general it seems. Lay the hell off our correspondent. Come start troll threads like this if you want to express your opinion of TK as a class, but attacking his credibility is in extremely poor taste. Go attack any other correspondent now who actually wants improvements to playability for their professions.