Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Biased correspondant?
Torm,
Let me reply with only this...
subliminate.com/galaxies/screenShot0031.jpg
I'm going to reply to daemon's post because it sounds the most intelligent out of the blathering idiots except for a few of you who try to give an argument.
Daemon wrote:
"Torm, stating a problem, opinion, quoting facts to support your opinion, and presenting a resonable solution is not a bad thing as you seem to think."
I don't recall every thinking it was a bad thing. Infact I have done it in every single post in this thread.
Daemon wrote:
"Of course the opinion is biased, IT'S A BLOODY OPINION. An opinion without bias is not a persuasive argument because it calls for no change, the whole point of having a correspondant is to have an advocate who can persuade the devs to find the best solution possible to the problems we are having."
Yes. But the magnitude of the bias plays a crucial role. If you come out sounding like a blathering fanboy no one will listen to you. And many people (maybe not you) don't realize how hard it is for a developer to listen to people who only want their class to be superior than others.
"However, as to your statement about bounty hunters: no game is perfect in any right or else there wouldn't be 10 bounty hunters to every Teras Kasi and 4 Teras Kasi to every swordsman."
Your statement is greatly exaggerated. The amount of bounty hunters is only a little bit more than TKA. And as for the swordsman, I don't think I have EVER seen a pikeman (elite) with his title on. I'm sure you have seen a couple but you wouldn't doubt the rarity of them.
"The prerequisites for BH were not put into play to make their class more difficult to obtain. They were placed in an attempt to discourage people from joining the class since they knew the majority of people wanted to take that class before the game was near even the first beta."
Regardless of what their intent was, the fact is that bounty hunters ARE more difficult to obtain. In addition to the difficulty, it also eats up all the skill points. Preventing any further specialization of any other class. TKA on the other hand can pick rifleman or carbineer or select another elite combat profession.
"They already get HUGE rewards for being a BH, as they get so many extras for pistol training and carbine training, this is their reward. TKA, however, no longer have any reward for our preserverance through a long and difficult training."
Every class is unique. Bounty hunters are supposed to be personal assassins, that is their role. In a 1on1 fight if both players have equal equipment, equal player skill, the bounty hunter should have a SLIGHT advantage. If a bounty hunter cant win then what good is a bounty hunter who can't fight? And could you please explain what preserverance through what training? Every elite combat class requires atleast 1 tier of combat training. Unarmed isn't anymore difficult to obtain, it wasn't for me atleast.
"Let me add that your statement:"No other profession could do this pre-patch except MAYBE the pistoleer which is probably going to get nerfed." is completely false and shows a lack of research into the topic at hand. FYI nearly ALL marksman in the game have a knockdown attack."
I'm not going to lie, you are right, I haven't played every single combat class. But I can tell you that no otherranged classcan solo 3 reds at once. Regardless of what you may say, I have seen it and don't try to prove otherwise. I have seen tusken kings go down and the TKA go unharmed (pre-patch). Ok, NEARLY all marksman in the game have a knock down attack. I don't know if this is true or false. I know rifleman doesn't have a knockdown attack unless you count flurry shot which only makes them dizzy and is easily countered. Commando doesn't have a knockdown, even though it isn't fixed I don't see a knockdown skill in any of the profession boxes. As for the rest of the professions, I have grouped multiple times with my PA and against mobs I have NEVER seen a ranged combat class knockdown an animal except for bounty-hunter. I know that pistoleer has a knockdown, but evidently its not effective enough for them to use it.
"In this case, why should a ranged fighter have this ability when they already have an advantage by doing it from great distances. Ranged fighters have no more of a right to stack this than TKA, in fact we have a much greater right to it than they do as we need it to keep them in an attacking range and they can simply kite us without even using it. Having them "out-signature" us with our own attack just adds insult to injury. We were having these problems pre-patch and the devs just made it worse."
Again, as I said, it doesn't sound like you have a marksman class, it just isn't as practical as you think for ranged professions to actually use knockdown as often as teras kasi. I have seen it with my own eyes, I have seen teras kasi players solo up to 3 red cons using knock down and he wasn't even a master. In contrast, I have never seen a ranged profession stack kncok down. Ranged professions take 1x, 2x, 3x, more damage than melee classes if meleed up close. Basically if you get within melee rangeof them theyare dead. If you want to talk about fair: I play as a rifleman and multiple times monsters will teleport (because of server problems)up to me and swing for 900 because of the damage modifier, instantly killing me.
You still did not answer mine Torm. What are you driving? Some IROC Camero sick ass 82? Its too fast cos rust adds hp yo!
"Melee) Masters of melee against ranged players obviously, or that's how I understand it contextually. All other references to his "master of melee" phrase deal with range, he obviously isnn't implying that we should be stronger than the other melee professions. Read between the lines... but not too much"
I still don't see how "Master of Melee" is supposed to anything other than the master of melee combat. But I'll give you this one, ok he stated incorrectly.
"Teras Kasi are popular because it's an idea that has been MADE popular by EQ, D&D, MUDs, whatever. It was a pre-established idea, and for one reason or another has always attracted more players."
EQ, they were crazy mad damage dealing but they couldn't tank worth crap. They were support fighters and never had an ability such as knockdown that prevents your opponent from touching you and having them take 50% more damage.
"Okay, so what you're trying to tell me is that because a BH sits in a camp, he should be able to kill everyone else? No, the BH isn't paying extra skill points to completely demolish everyone, he's paying them for VERSATILITY. He is effective at any range, though not to the point of being superior at every range. We pay less skill points to SPECIALIZE in a very narrow range(0-3m), and what Thunderwulf was asking for is that to show in combat."
He's also paying them and giving up the points he could have spent in more useful profession. And what about commandos? They have unarmed as a prerequisite even though they have no unarmed skill tiers in their profession.
"Summary) You say that it should be a give and take relationship. But basically, TKA's are giving and giving. Due to recent changes, our prowess in melee has been decreased greatly. We STILL have a huge ranged disadvantage, increased greatly by the suppression fire fix. But even upon reaching our range we still have a disadvantage, which is what Thunderwulf is trying to balance out."
Yes, but by saying that knockdown should be able to be stacked as it was previously?? I understand that you want TKA to be more powerful than they are now, but you have to admit the knockdown pre-patch was ridiculous. No one could kill mobs as well as TKA.
And as for one person who mentioned that TKA needs a skill to close the gap with ranged, well you can't say knockdown. Knockdown on a ranged enemy as a tka means instant death for the ranged. Beefing up lunge or a skill with that role would sound much more reasonable than stacking knockdowns.
"If you follow the mythos of the Star Wars universe and the continuity the devs have continually tried to uphold. As well as descriptions in the user guide, dev related posts, and in game refrences. Yes, we are masters of melee combat, and taking into account what I said above, we should be."
So you are saying that TKA should be straight up superior to any other melee profession? I agree. TKA should also be the ultimate profession, lasers should bounce off him, TKA should be able to fly around tackling enemies and throwing them at each other.
Aren't all correspondents biased? I don't know what profession you hail from (I'm guessing rifleman or BH) but I doubt if you're correspondent said "yeah, we rock at distance, which is good...and our HAM costs are low...and we really don't need the T21 b/c we already own everything outside 40m. We also think we should get completely trashed by any melee profession that gets within 10m of us...and kiting is really too cheap and should be nerfed."
IMO the classes that require the same skill points should be all "balanced" and come down to individual skills and situation. The sword/pikeman melee groups are completely broke as well, but it doesn't make any sense for our correspondent to comment on them. He's a TK...I'll wager he has no idea what problems are faced by pikeman. We asked him to address what we see as failings in our profession, and what imbalances exist with the other professions of similar reqs (carabineers, rifleman, pistoleers). We'd like to be able to do the PvP thing just like you guys do. Also, no where in any of his posts do you see "we think we should be able to take on all the BH's" (quote from the pistoleers).
Your thought on faster running speed is intriguing. Of course you know that suppressive fire is the new KD and can be spammed nicely to keep players prone. My contra to that is put a timer on supressive fire and increase running speed of melee.
Coming into a profession's boards and bagging on their correspondent is trolling, plain and simple. Try going into any other professions board and complain about the bias of their correspondent and see the reaction. Expect to be treated badly.
Torm you still have not made a valid point. Sad part is that you do not even realize how dumb your argument is.
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Trolls should be banned from boards. Torm needs the following in no particular order:
1. A clue
2. A brain
3. A life
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I am actually a commando. Regardless of how trashed my profession is, I haven't complained or anything. Because I know its completely pointless when the devs are fully aware that changes need to be made. Bounty hunters were unbalanced with the underhand spam etc, but they have fixed it a little bit and I am still waiting for it to pan out and see how it goes.
"and we really don't need the T21 b/c we already own everything outside 40m. We also think we should get completely trashed by any melee profession that gets within 10m of us...and kiting is really too cheap and should be nerfed.""
Understandable, but the rifleman correspondant brings up issues with our class having too much power in fact. He stated that we fire too fast which I agree, but a rifleman's role is to make slow but accurate shots that count. Our ham costs are extremely high due to the rate of how fast we fire. It's not nearly as bad as TKA but it's not as low as you think either.
"IMO the classes that require the same skill points should be all "balanced" and come down to individual skills and situation. The sword/pikeman melee groups are completely broke as well, but it doesn't make any sense for our correspondent to comment on them."
This is my exact point that I am trying to express.Professions that require more pre-requisites should have aslight advantage but it should all come down to equipment and player skill.