Teras Kasi Archive

The recent post have turned hostile and that was not my intent...

So I will sum up the my position with this question.

If a large group fights and defeats a Dark Jedi, should a TK be able to participate?

If the answer is yes, how could they today?

(I ask this because I currently must watch)

Thanks in advance for your thoughs,

dB

Well I can't exactly understand whaty you are saying in the subject line, but I'm assuming your issue me a question.

So if that question is directed at me, I would have to have a little more information. How exactly are you forced to just sit on the sideline? And I supposed we should make sure we have the same understanding of what "being involved" in the fight means. Because I certainly don't think it makes taking no damange or doing all the work while your "group" cheers you on.

First of all, if a "large group" is taking on a dark jedi without a medic or two in that group, then we can stop taking right now. And if there is a medic or two in the group, and since the largest problem since the patch is HAM costs, of which action and health takes the largest hits (although yes believe I feel the fact that mind gets hit too, but without VKs equipped it is managable) then I really don't see what the big problem is.

Not only that but I don't think a mid-sized group should be able to take on arguably one of the toughest mobs in the game and expect to not see people incapped along the way. That's part of the excitment is trying to make it happen.

I'm curious to know if in your dark jedi scenario you availed yourself to the resources of the game that are there to help you. For instance, befor taking on one of the toughest mobs in the game, did you consume food from a chef? There are places to by food all over the galaxy, I can give you waypoints to some excellent shops for food and spices. These foods at higher levels have more than a "passing" effect on stats. I accept the argument of some people that they "shouldn't have to" spec master brawler or master medic to be a successful TKA -- in fact I more than accept it, I AGREE that we shouldn't have to. But I do not agree that we shouldn't have to make use of the tools that we were designed to make use of in order to be effective, and foods and other buffs were absolutely one of those tools.

And lastly, I'd be interested to know if, when you are playing the role of meatshield, you equip any armor whatsoever with kinetic damage resistances. Believe me I understand armor has positives and negatives, and that the debate rages on as to wheter or not armor is best for TKs - but its a question just the same.

So perhaps if I could have a little more context to this hypothetical battle I could give you a better expressed opinion. To me there is a big difference between saying "I cannot even particpate at any point in the battle" which to me is an exaggerated claim and saying "at present I cannot particate as long our as powerfully as I once did and I think that is unfair" which gives some room to have a meaningful discussion.

/pinch selwynn

Be nice selwynn.

actually i didnt quite understand the dood's post either...

was he asking you how to play the game?

Selwynn, brawlers have NEVER had a place in High level fights(Kraytes/Kimos/Jedi/Etc.)

We have no supportive abilities, and we are the first to be attacked(even at master we can't survive one attack). Now, I am assuming you've never fought a Jedi since you suggest food and enhancements as a viable option. Now, you just posted your apology thread, I suggested you become more informed yourself before you try and knock down other people. You've ignored the suggestion, so let me continue:

1) Dark Jedi have 90% resistances across the board and AR: Simply put, Vibros don't pierce armor, we have no way to pierce armor, and even if we did we'd be doing 10% damage. Bleeds are the only viable option against Dark Jedi and other high level creatures. Downing a sunburn and some muon gold beforehand won't change the fact that Melee'ers will do about 2% damage against these enemies.

2) The creatures at hand deal multiple thousands of damage: Tactics to beat these creatures rely on NOT getting hit. This is simply not an option for a melee profession. We have no defensive abilities to counteract the multiple thousands of damage(4000+ on Jedi). With a good drink, food, and a perfect enhancement, we still die in one hit.

3) We lack support abilities: We don't get volleyfire, we can't heal, we can't take damage, and we can't deal damage.(assuming we are pure TKA) Because of this, we ultimately ARE the sideline fighters here.

Don't assume everyone is stupid. Don't assume that no one has tried food, or enhancements, or whatever. You are only digging yourself a deeper hole when you blatantly imply that we can't figure this out for ourselves. Not to mention you only make yourself look even more ignorant when you make suggestions like that.

"Selwynn, brawlers have NEVER had a place in High level fights(Kraytes/Kimos/Jedi/Etc.)"

Actually, before the very first post-release knockdown nerf, I wanted two Tera Kasi (non-masters) take down a krayt by themselves. It took an hour, but they did it. At one point one of them died and the second one managed to run back while the first kept it knocked down.

So I wouldn't go as far as to say that brawlers have NEVER had a place in high level fights. But I would agree that this place has been diminished greatly in recent days. We can all agree on that. Would you agree that the real question is "what's reasonable?" So, I don't think two Teras Kasis taking down a krayt on their own is at all reasonable. I favored the first KD nerf, and it was my feeling that the community actually did as well all in all. But now, the argument is being made that the pendulum has swung too far to the opposite side -- not instead of being inappropriately being able to take things we should never be able to take along, we are not inapproprirately UNABLE to participate in fights we should be able to participate in.

Somewhere in the middle is a balance -- I don't ever want TKs to go back to the days of being able to permanently keep nearly anything in the game knocked down for ever at little to no cost. But I also don't want TKs to be at a place where the cannot meaningfully contriubte in high level situations. So.. how do we create that balance? A lot of people thing a return to pre-nerf KD values does the trick -- how do you feel about that?

Okay, correction, brawlers NEVER have a place as of *NOW*. Thanks for correcting me.

What's reasonable? I think that reasonable is giving us a role in PvE and PvP. We are the joke of every other combat profession in PvP, and we don't have tanking abilities to allow us to... tank in PvE. We also don't have the damage output to really shine in either.

Low KD costs might not be the best fix, because it completely removes damage taken. But, it's far better than our current status, where we takefar too much damage.

---

Selwynn wrote:
Well I can't exactly understand whaty you are saying in the subject line, but I'm assuming your issue me a question.

So if that question is directed at me, I would have to have a little more information. How exactly are you forced to just sit on the sideline? And I supposed we should make sure we have the same understanding of what "being involved" in the fight means. Because I certainly don't think it makes taking no damange or doing all the work while your "group" cheers you on.

First of all, if a "large group" is taking on a dark jedi without a medic or two in that group, then we can stop taking right now. And if there is a medic or two in the group, and since the largest problem since the patch is HAM costs, of which action and health takes the largest hits (although yes believe I feel the fact that mind gets hit too, but without VKs equipped it is managable) then I really don't see what the big problem is.

Not only that but I don't think a mid-sized group should be able to take on arguably one of the toughest mobs in the game and expect to not see people incapped along the way. That's part of the excitment is trying to make it happen.

I'm curious to know if in your dark jedi scenario you availed yourself to the resources of the game that are there to help you. For instance, befor taking on one of the toughest mobs in the game, did you consume food from a chef? There are places to by food all over the galaxy, I can give you waypoints to some excellent shops for food and spices. These foods at higher levels have more than a "passing" effect on stats. I accept the argument of some people that they "shouldn't have to" spec master brawler or master medic to be a successful TKA -- in fact I more than accept it, I AGREE that we shouldn't have to. But I do not agree that we shouldn't have to make use of the tools that we were designed to make use of in order to be effective, and foods and other buffs were absolutely one of those tools.

And lastly, I'd be interested to know if, when you are playing the role of meatshield, you equip any armor whatsoever with kinetic damage resistances. Believe me I understand armor has positives and negatives, and that the debate rages on as to wheter or not armor is best for TKs - but its a question just the same.

So perhaps if I could have a little more context to this hypothetical battle I could give you a better expressed opinion. To me there is a big difference between saying "I cannot even particpate at any point in the battle" which to me is an exaggerated claim and saying "at present I cannot particate as long our as powerfully as I once did and I think that is unfair" which gives some room to have a meaningful discussion.

---

If my question was unclear, let me rephase it..

If a group, any group you make it what you will fights a Dark Jedi, as a TKM what would your role be....what could it be?

Any role you choose....you see there is NO melee role you could play other than observer, any other role is death...

Yes you could heal or cheer for the team but thats it, as a TKM you are excluded from meaningful contribution from that encounter...

Forgot to add, full doc buffs, full spice buffs, whatever you choose..please describe a role you could play and not die, other than watch..

"...please describe a role you could play and not die..."

Why, comic releif of course...

BTW..I didn't answer your question, sorry...

I don't want to depend on KD, it would be a cheap fix.

I HATE depending on KD, you can read Raph's tread about his promotion, I stated I hated being a one trick pony...I hate relying on KD to survive, the issue with TK's is not KD it's that they are lacking other tools to be the Monk/Tanks he invisions.

For something like a Dark Jedi, I just stand back. I don't dent them and they kill me in one hit. I feel like the Dark Jedi is saying "Next". Even trying pot shots doesn't seem to work (Going in, taking a hit, retreating back). I was just murdered each time. Brawlers have no place in these fights. Creatures are the real tanks.

thats why you have 250 skill points