Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: How to Beat a Teras Kasi Master
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Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:12 pm
#1
Oh, guys, I'm sick of all you non-TK players whining that we're the uber-elite profession in the game, when the fault is invariably yours. For the record, I'm a TKM. Currently, I'm TKM/Master Brawler/Fencer 1011, although I'm considering going Master Swordsman rather than Master Fencer. I play monks in D&D, monks in EQ, and have always been interested in martial arts IRL, so don't give me that BS about being just another powergamer.
Anyway, I'm a TKM, and I lose in PvP. A *LOT*. Admittedly, I tend to run into some REALLY nasty pvp players a lot (heya, Awkward), but if anything, it's forced my profession's weaknesses into my awareness. So here's a step-by-step guide to beating TKM's, and to a lesser extent, *ALL* melee.
First off, let's clear some misconceptions:
1) Teras Kasi do NOT have a 20m attack. Regular attacks have a range of 5m. UA3 can hit from 15m, primarily to give us some small chance of hitting people kiting us, I suppose.
2) The 20m knockdown you all complain about is NOT a TK attack. It's Unarmed Lunge 2, which is a Master Brawler attack. (Novice Brawlers also have Unarmed Lunge 1, which is a 15m posture-down attack.) Anyone willing to attain Master Brawler has the full suite of Lunge2 attacks, allowing all Master Brawlers to knock people down with any melee weapon from 20m. I've not tested KD2, but I cannot recall connecting with it at a range greater than 11m.
3) While TK do get directed attacks in HeadHit1, BodyHit1, and LegHit1, they are WEAK - they hit about as hard as a standard unarmed attack, so if you're in 80% composite and we're using VK's, we might do 50 damage to that pool. Compare that to the damage put out by Two-Hand Head Hit 3 and Sniper shot - TK aren't even in the same LEAGUE with targeted attacks. Basically, a TK using targeted attacks is spending HAM (and large amounts of it if armored) to do normal hits to the named location.
4) Yes, we have a knockdown/dizzy. We're the only profession to get both with one hit. However, Master Brawlers get a knockdown, and fencers get a dizzy. Swordsmen and Pikemen both have knockdowns as well, IIRC. On top of that, Bounty Hunters, Smugglers, and Carbineers all have knockdowns. Many of those professions also have dizzy attacks as well, and use them. Don't blame us for a using an attack intentionally given us that everyone else uses as well.
5) Teras Kasi do *NOT* have massive defenses. Teras Kase are an offensively-oriented profession. We can inflict any state and have minor targeting ability, and can put out quite a lot of damage. However, our melee and ranged defense really aren't all that good (50-ish), and our secondary defense (Defensive Acuity) flat-out doesn't work. If you're facing a TK who's bloody hard as hell to hit, he has defensive mods from a second elite combat profession, most likely dabbling in pistoleer or fencer. Count him as a stacker, not a TK. On top of that, our state defenses are only a hair better than you'd find on non-combat professions. We are EXTREMELY vulnerable to intimidate, stuns, dizzy, and knockdown - moreso than you if you're a fencer, swordsman, pikeman, carbineer, pistoleer, or rifleman. Again, stackers can work around this, but most of you people whining about us have the ability to do the same. Those of you who can't, well, you have other advantages (example - both BH's and commandos can set us on fire.)
Now, to beat us, here's what you have to do:
*Note: This assumes both people involved have full doctor buffs. If one side does and one side doesn't, the unbuffed side is almost guaranteed to lose.
**Note: This doesn't apply as much when you're facing a pvp template, for the simple reason that the person involved has designed the entire character around the template. If you're a Pistoleer/Ranger and try fighting a TKM/Brawler/Swordsman/4000 Fencer, you're getting stomped. They're totally geared up to kill players, you're not. End of story.
1) Get 80% kinetic composite armor. I don't care if it's expensive. I don't care that you need to get buffed to wear it. Newsflash - Teras Kasi [b]ONLY[/b] do kinetic damage. That's it - no stun, no blast, just kinetic. If you put on 80% kinetic, that's an autowin over many TK right there. Suddenly we're looking at 50-100 damage with VK's and 25-50 bare-handed. Yay.
2) Wear a shield when doing PvP. I don't care if they wear out in a hurry - you can take another 40% off the remaining damage by wearing one. Suddenly TKM's will do 30-60 with VK's or half that unarmed.
3) If you're not stacking professions with KD defense, eat some food that defends against KD or dizzy (personally, I think it's more important to protect against dizzy, as that's the killer, not KD).
4) Carry emergency food/drink/spice around. Doctor buffs can add 2k to all your physical stats easily, and vasarian brandy can give you 400 more to all the mind stats, and you can drink 2. Add on Fishak for 500 more mind and Muon for 500 more to all mind stats, and you're looking at 1800 more mind and 1300 more focus/willpower. If you have the above armor, we'll never cut through all that HAM.
5) If you get knocked down and not dizzied, get back up as soon as you can, but do [b]NOT[/b] spam the /stand command. If you're dizzied, if you're a doc, heal thyself. If you're not, your best bet is to either knock them down or run (burst run if you can). This applies when you're facing ANY profession that can do either a knockdown or a posture down.
6) If you get hit with both KD and dizzy, keep your head. Use /stand once, and wait to see if you get up. If you do, go on about your business. If you fall back down, /stand again. Do NOT spam the command, because each time the game processes a /stand command while you're dizzy, it makes another check to see if you fall down.
7) USE YOUR SPECIALS. Swordsmen and riflemen can do HUGE amounts of damage to the head. Fencers can dizzy then lunge for the knockdown. Many professions can knockdown. Make us bleed. Light us on fire. Stun us, blind us, intimidate us. Remember, we are TERRIBLE at defending against specials. Use that weakness against us.
8) This is mostly to the swordsmen out there - if you're having trouble hitting us with your low accuracy weapons, switch to something with better accuracy. [b]SO[/b] many swordsmen whine that they can't hit us with their powerhammers, then react with horror when it's suggested they try something else. Yes, the powerhammer is a very nice weapon - AP2, blast damage, HUGE damage. However, even the best ones suffer from -30 accuracy penalties, which just kill them in PvP. Instead, try a top-of-the-line curved two-handed sword. Yes, it does kinetic, which anyone can defend against, but it's +10 instead of -30. Think about it - do you do more damage hitting 5% of the time for 200 each or hitting 40% of the time for 80 each? (And don't forget, the sword attacks a LOT faster, so the smaller damage per hit isn't as big a drawback as it may seem.)
9) If you have better range, [b]KITE US![/b] We can't hit you from 25m away, and if you have decent KD and posture down resists, then we're not much of a threat unless we can get within 10m. Just save your burst run until you see us get into melee range, then fire it off yourself. Run around corners - we use /follow to stay on you, and that'll trip us up on the scenery. Lose yourself in the scenery, then come back and snipe us. Nine times out of ten, when a ranged profession complains about losing to a TK, it's because they didn't kite.
10) If you haven't mastered an elite combat profession, you have pretty much no chance of beating someone who has, whether they be TKM or Master Carbineer. There is a large difference between 4444 and Master, much less someone who is (as I saw in another post) 0121 in their profession vs a Master in another.
11) PRACTICE. Don't expect to do well against a PvP'er if you only ever fight PvE. They are two entirely different skillsets and approaches to character design. If you're a part-timer and fight someone whose entire focus is PvP, you will probably lose no matter what - he's built better for PvP, he has more knowledge of what to do, and he has far more experience. When (not if, when) you lose, look back on what he did, what you did, how he countered you, what you could have done differently, etc. Don't just come to this board whining that we need to be nerfed just because you don't know how to PvP.
If you just do the things I mentioned above, you'll almost never lose to a non-stacking TKM. (TKM as part of a stack is another matter entirely, but that's a stacking problem, not a TKM problem.)
Finally....
12) You will NEVER win every fight, and there will probably be some people you will never beat. If you just come here whining because you lost, then you're wasting our bandwidth. There's a wookie TKM/Swordsman/Brawler that I can barely touch, much less beat, but I don't come here whining that he's a cheater. I just watch what he did and learn. You need to do the same as well.
Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:14 pm
#2
Blech, my kingdom for an edit option to fix the code. I'm too into the habit of using ubb code rather than html.
atone48732
Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:15 pm
#3
/applaud
great post man
maybe this should be posted in other forums too just in case the nerf cryin babies miss it
Nice post good idea
NERF CRIERS PLEASE READ
Leomi
Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:20 pm
#4
Good post, but now everyone knows our weaknesses. Well, they all did before anyway, but they still liked to cry nerf.
antares_Kauri
Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:24 pm
#5
Decent post, but you are incorrect in saying 5) TKA have low defenses. Low state defenses only, everything else is superior. Only Fencer has more and only by 12 melee and 24 ranged. TKA has 3x the melee/ranged vs swordsmen, 2x vs pikemen, more toughness than all the other melee - over 2x the toughness as pikemen, 25% more accuracy than any other melee class, 30% more speed, almost 2x the combat equilibrium fencer has (swordsmen/pike have 0), better response to mitigation. And all that is just in 3 skill lines.
TKA has the same Def vs KD as pikemen, 2x the Def vs posture change as swordsmen, more Def vs stun than fencers (only 5, though. hehe), same 0 def vs intimidate as pikemen and the same def vs blind as swordsmen. Low overall, but not completely terrible (in comparison to fencers' state defenses, everyone is terrible) and definitely better than non-combat professions. See the melee stats.
You also can't drink 2 brandy's and a fishak. And there are some times when you simply cannot get up from dizzy, no matter how careful you are with /stand.
antares
master pikeman
TKA has the same Def vs KD as pikemen, 2x the Def vs posture change as swordsmen, more Def vs stun than fencers (only 5, though. hehe), same 0 def vs intimidate as pikemen and the same def vs blind as swordsmen. Low overall, but not completely terrible (in comparison to fencers' state defenses, everyone is terrible) and definitely better than non-combat professions. See the melee stats.
You also can't drink 2 brandy's and a fishak. And there are some times when you simply cannot get up from dizzy, no matter how careful you are with /stand.
antares
master pikeman
BlasterForHire
Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:24 pm
#6
two notes:
snipershot deals no damage; it's a ranged deathblow. i assume you're talking about master headshot, although that does only slightly more damage than expert headshot (marksman level).
Bounty hunters also get a single attack that does dizzy/kd-- fireknockdown (bh carb 3).
other than that, i'm in full agreement with you. my only problem with TKM's is GroupTEF.
*** currently 0144 TKA, so i'm not trolling your forums.
snipershot deals no damage; it's a ranged deathblow. i assume you're talking about master headshot, although that does only slightly more damage than expert headshot (marksman level).
Bounty hunters also get a single attack that does dizzy/kd-- fireknockdown (bh carb 3).
other than that, i'm in full agreement with you. my only problem with TKM's is GroupTEF.
*** currently 0144 TKA, so i'm not trolling your forums.
Message Edited by BlasterForHire on 03-19-2004 02:25 PM
headsupsevenup
Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:34 pm
#7
just to correct you antares, you can drink 2 Brandys and eat a Fishak, as long as the chef that makes them makes sure that it is low on filling.
antares_Kauri
Fri Mar 19, 2004 3:38 pm
#8
They would have to be pretty low filling. I have never seen 33 filling or less brandy or fishak. If they exist, then sure you could...
antares
master pikeman
antares
master pikeman
Taliesyn42
Fri Mar 19, 2004 4:09 pm
#10
Hmm..you're right on the fishak v. brandy. Still, +800 to all mind stats from a pair of brandy is HUGE.
Correct on the snipershot, I remember Riflemen recieve a mind attack past Headshot 3, I just can't recall the name of it.
MrChow_Sai
Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:34 pm
#11
OMG u guys are werid. I can beat tkm with out armors. I'm Doc 2440 TKM and swordsman 0220.
2times i faced a TKM with 80% kinetic composite armor i beat with cheat composite armor. i have beat a TKM with 85% kinetic Ubese. my one and best easiest move is UnarmedCombo1.
okay okay all u guys think it sucks, but it doesn't. why doesn't it suck? the spd on it's faster it 2, dmg is 2 lower then the call shots, the ham lower than una3 and the call shots and the last thing is ur hitting the guy in the health and the mind. now how is it bad using hitting the guy in the head and the health? okay so i'm hitting them in the health okay then they heal it, then oh wow hurt there own mind ty and i spam it till they fall.
the best classes that kill us is Rifleman, pikeman, and fencer or any of them together. rifleman can kill us if it's done rite. pikeman can if has all the NS pike with DOT but only if ur not a doc, and the last fencers. fencer are the greatest in pvp if done rite.
fencer is scatterhit2 is wrong and all there defense is uber. it kill me all the time but only if they do it rite. scatterhit's in game are one of the best move in the game.
okay i'm just adding on to taliessyn42 post he's rite in most way best but the only reason TK is great is that the class works.
MrChow_Sai
Fri Mar 19, 2004 11:37 pm
#12
oh ya antares the post with all the melee stats isn't updated if i remeber i add that TKM get 77 melee def i'll post the stats again i have them add somewhere
Message Edited by MrChow_Sai on 03-19-2004 10:39 PM
Sitssosk
Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:24 am
#13
Yeah I get pwned alot in PvP as pure TKM, which is why I'm building up to pistoleer 0-0-4-4. The extra state defence is helpful and I think I get damage mitigation 2 out of it, but no extra ranged defence and I'm still at a reasonable disadvantage against ranged professions (which is how it should be anyway). The extra defences give me a greater edge over swordsmen, pikemen and other TKAs but fencers still give me a kicking more often than not. =/
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