CUEmu - Thread Posts

Malican

Tue May 17, 2005 4:14 pm

I decided to test out for myself various melee defense levels and BE +melee defense clothing. What I found, sadly, did not shock me.

All combat was done against CL 82 swarming lesser dewbacks.

My template is currently Brawler 4-0-4-4, Teras Kasi Master, Pikeman 0-0-4-0, Medic 4-0-4-0, andMaster Doctor.I'm usually a Master Brawler,Teras Kasi Master, Master Swordsman and Pikeman 3-4-4-0 but I wasn't about to try this without being aMaster Doctor.

Unarmed Test

Melee Defense: 265

Normal Damage: 180

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 144

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 281 (+16shirt)

Normal Damage: 180

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 144

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 297 (290)(+16shirt/+16 bandolier)

note: the accepted theory is you can only get +25 skill increase from BE clothing.

Normal Damage: 180

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 144

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 313 (290) (+16 shirt/+16 bandolier/+16 duster)

note: the accepted theory is you can only get +25 skill increase from BE clothing.

Normal Damage: 180

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 144

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

1-Hand Sword Test (I have no skills in 1-hand so weapon bonus on defense is +0)

Melee Defense: 190

Normal Damage: 209

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 167

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 206 (+16 shirt)

Normal Damage: 209

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 167

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 222 (215) (+16 shirt/+16 bandolier)

note: the accepted theory is that you can only get +25 skill increase from BE clothing.

Normal Damage: 209

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 167

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 238 (215) (+16 shirt/+16 bandolier/+16 duster)

note: the accepted theory is that you can only get +25 skill increase from BE clothing.

Normal Damage: 209

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 167

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Polearm Test

Melee Defense: 230

Normal Damage: 184

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 147

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 246 (+16 shirt)

Normal Damage: 184

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 147

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 262 (255) (+16 shirt/+16 bandolier)

note: the accepted theory is that you can only get +25 skill increase from BE clothing.

Normal Damage: 184

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 147

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Melee Defense: 278 (255) (+16 shirt/+16 bandolier/+16 duster)

note: the accepted theory is that you can only get +25 skill increase from BE clothing.

Normal Damage: 184

With CoB: 68

With Intimidation: 147

With CoB & Intimidation: 55

Armor Test (Unarmed)

Wearing: Left Bone Armor Bicep (Battle) (Armor value: 1923)

Melee Defense 265

Normal Damage: 338

With CoB: 134

With Intimidation: 270

With CoB & Intimidation: 107

So it looks like:

Teras Kasi inate armor is working very well.

Melee defense really doesn't matter if you have CoB active.

BE melee defense skill clothing does not work.

If anyone else wants to do some tests please post em so we can see how they go. If I get brave I might try throwing myself at some CL 84+ NPCs to see if I get the same results or if I was hitting an "NPC Damage Cap",..minimum or maximum.

Well I'm off to feed the krayts and the katarn...

Galbatorix

Tue May 17, 2005 5:15 pm

#2

Being that the respec is just about over (for me atleast) i am going to do a test with the teras kasi innate armor when i grind up my alt. As many people hav heard, the CU implemented a system in which an increased mod decreases the actual increase from one point of the mod to the next (ie there is less of a growth going from+1 to +2 than from +0 to +1)of what is being modifed...in other words a logistic growth curve. For anybody that does not know wat this is, it is pretty much a curve that levels off when the value of your x variable (the mod in this situation) increases.

QuarianRex

Tue May 17, 2005 7:02 pm

#3

I thought that melee defense altered the chance to get hit, not the actual damage done.

Galbatorix

Tue May 17, 2005 7:37 pm

#4

About two weeks ago i brought up the whole issue of equipping a non tka weapon and how it for somereason decreased the effectiveness of TIA with Mankind, the only possible solution that we could come up with in this reduction is the fact that the only thing that was different was the weapon being used...hence not getting the unarmed defense. That will all be part of my test when i do manage to get ahold of my second toon though. But i understand your concern and hopefully testing (hopefully in 3 weeks depending on the phase shift of the village) will clear up some of the confusion about the innate armor itself.

Galbatorix

Tue May 17, 2005 7:40 pm

#5

QuarianRex wrote:
I thought that melee defense altered the chance to get hit, not the actual damage done.

well in some instances that is true, but you also must remember that any time there is an attack initiated in combat...there is a defense vs. accuracy roll. In some cases when the accuracy roll is way over the defensive roll it will not only insure a hit but also it supposedly increases the damage dealt to the target. Like i said i am not completely positive about this, but i think i hav read about it somewhere.

Malican

Tue May 17, 2005 9:00 pm

#6

Well if melee defense effects how difficult someone is to hit then that needs looking into. It'svery rare when an NPC misses. At CL 80 I still get hit about 95% of the time.

One of the main things I was pointing out was that at different base melee defense values, different amounts of damage was done by the same NPC. That tells me that melee defense also contributes to the amount of damage taken. Also it seems that BE clothing with melee defense make no difference at all. And last, the melee defense didn't matter at all while CoB was running.

So it seems that CoB capsdefense easily. CoB is the only important tanking skill and that melee defense doesn't really serve a purpose.

Message Edited by Malican on 05-17-2005 09:09 PM

SettingSun

Wed May 18, 2005 1:49 pm

#7

CoB is adding 500, so even having 0 melee defense might give you the same result as having 300 base.

That means it may be better to go after specials and speed rather than worry about defense. Doc/Tka has crappy def, but is a great tank because of cob. IMO this rather sucks. Its a mistake to have a profession that is based around and dominated by 1 special. Having or not having advance intimidate doesn't make or break a melee build, same with advance armor break or advance bleed. Those specials are nice, but they aren't anend all be all. Advance cob, does make or break a melee build. Intimidate lowers damage, but you got to get it to stick first and works on just one mob per use. Cob makes defense numbers meaningless, doesn't need to apply to each mob, and is in effect the moment it it turned on til the timer runs out.

Starson

Wed May 18, 2005 5:09 pm

#8

SettingSun wrote:

CoB is adding 500, so even having 0 melee defense might give you the same result as having 300 base.

That means it may be better to go after specials and speed rather than worry about defense. Doc/Tka has crappy def, but is a great tank because of cob. IMO this rather sucks. Its a mistake to have a profession that is based around and dominated by 1 special. Having or not having advance intimidate doesn't make or break a melee build, same with advance armor break or advance bleed. Those specials are nice, but they aren't anend all be all. Advance cob, does make or break a melee build. Intimidate lowers damage, but you got to get it to stick first and works on just one mob per use. Cob makes defense numbers meaningless, doesn't need to apply to each mob, and is in effect the moment it it turned on til the timer runs out.

I thought cob should be one of those abilities that are allways on, no special. A master of the marital arts is allways focused, his/her/it's being is centered in all things, combat or non combat.

Starrwalker, The Barefoot Ranger
MPilot/MRanger/TKM
Awing/Recon "First in, Last out"
Alliance Commander
Eclipse (LOK)

APEist_Revenge

Wed May 18, 2005 6:35 pm

#9

wow great post, good job on the testing.

hope the devs fix the bio e stuff soon.

/APEist\

dRebel Soldier of ShielddIf I had a penny for all the people I've damned, I'd be a trillionaire, and btw, damn you.The Swordsman you've never heard of, but the one you'll regret not expecting.

Swordsman Motto: We like our women like our enemies, hammered.

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FM_Warblood

Wed May 18, 2005 7:41 pm

#10

If TKM innate armor is working then why do I take 165 dmg from a brain as a TKM(no BE clothing but it dosnt help anyway) and then take 130 dmg from a brain as a Swordsman with zero clothing as well?

HeartAttack

Wed May 18, 2005 7:55 pm

#11

Malican hi,

I have also recently tried and tested melee/ranged def +15 clothing for my MTKA(No difference at all)

I dueled with a friend and he still hit me for the same amount of damage if I was wearing it or not. And funny enough I have started a message about this myself but was before I read yours lol. It is bugged atm thats for sure.

Slimmey mudhole this is..............Yoda !

heathgt350

Wed May 18, 2005 8:38 pm

#12

This is because as stated by the devs Melee Defence and Ranged Defence have diminishing rates of return.

For example,for the first 100 Def you have you will notice a big difference in dmg taken, from 100-200 def you will notice a little less dmg taken, from 200 Def upwards you won't notice much (if any)difference indmg taken at all.

The problem with the original poster's tests is that they are testing the clothing on a character that already has high defence. So adding that extra 16 or so defence isn't going to do anything at all.

If however you had run the same tests on a crafter or someone with low defence, then you would have noticed some results.

Annomander Rake

Type /pvp to check your pvp rating!

NewEco

Thu May 19, 2005 6:45 am

#13

you neglect the fact, that a TKM base defense of 265 should be equal with a pre-novice Swordsman (with base defense 180) PLUS 75 defense points from BE Clothings, but apparently they are not .......

Even in the light of deminishing returns being at cap you arguement is not valid because TKM 265 vs Pikeman 230 shows that there is a difference between them , i.e. 4 points damage absorbance, if you assume a linearity in this narrow range that would mean 1 point damage absorbance per 8.75 points of defense

so in the case of the pre-novice Swordsman 190 and 190+16 there MUST be observable difference, at least a single point, more likly more than two points ....

but its not !

=> BROKEN

Message Edited by NewEco on 05-19-2005 03:55 PM

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Teras Kasi Archive

Thread: Research into Inate Armor, CoB, Melee Defense, Cap and BE skill clothing.