Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Srong Reservations:Ability to stack offense; You will not be a master of Unarmed combat with TKM
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Flatlinedmemory
Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:47 pm
#1
I know alot of smugglers and commandoes are stoked that they will no be able to use unarmed moves and I am right there with you being excited that people will actually get to use all thier skills.
The few concerns I have are that TKM, Smuggler, and commando are fairly interchangable as they all require the UA line in brawler. I believe this may phase us with certain problems
By now I think most TKM's are TKM's because they really love the professtion and they are going to want to use TKM as much as possinble in game. (It lost its FOTM status with Jedi becomming less rare.)
It has me thinking that as a TKM I might alomost be forced into taking these this skills for a few reasons.
I love TKM and want to be able to compete as one , and undoubtedly people people will use the smuggler and commando lines to enhance thier TKM abilities. Other people who love TKM just as much may not wish to dabble in these professtions because they want to do other things such a ssupport professtions. However they may feel at a disadvantage with thier chosen TKM abilities and may eventually decide to pick up skills in commandoe, smuggler. I strongly feel that this will reduce the varity of templates out there as TKM's will all migrate to these professtions.
I equate this to athletes using steroids to enhance performance. They dont want to do it , but all around them other players are, They are becomming better then them in many ways, making more money ect and essentially making them less valuable as a Shortstop , or a goalie ect. Thier hearts arnt in it but they do it anyway because they want to be the best at what they do. Yes thier are alot of RL consequences to this , but in this game there will only be more power granted,
I am a very avid supporter of smuggler and commandoes being able to use unarmed tatics. But smuggler and commado skills should not work with TK abilities, mods.
It makes master TK mean so much less when you really havnt mastered the art of unarmed combat.
anyone who can direct me to a thread where DEVs will see this please provide link.
The few concerns I have are that TKM, Smuggler, and commando are fairly interchangable as they all require the UA line in brawler. I believe this may phase us with certain problems
By now I think most TKM's are TKM's because they really love the professtion and they are going to want to use TKM as much as possinble in game. (It lost its FOTM status with Jedi becomming less rare.)
It has me thinking that as a TKM I might alomost be forced into taking these this skills for a few reasons.
I love TKM and want to be able to compete as one , and undoubtedly people people will use the smuggler and commando lines to enhance thier TKM abilities. Other people who love TKM just as much may not wish to dabble in these professtions because they want to do other things such a ssupport professtions. However they may feel at a disadvantage with thier chosen TKM abilities and may eventually decide to pick up skills in commandoe, smuggler. I strongly feel that this will reduce the varity of templates out there as TKM's will all migrate to these professtions.
I equate this to athletes using steroids to enhance performance. They dont want to do it , but all around them other players are, They are becomming better then them in many ways, making more money ect and essentially making them less valuable as a Shortstop , or a goalie ect. Thier hearts arnt in it but they do it anyway because they want to be the best at what they do. Yes thier are alot of RL consequences to this , but in this game there will only be more power granted,
I am a very avid supporter of smuggler and commandoes being able to use unarmed tatics. But smuggler and commado skills should not work with TK abilities, mods.
It makes master TK mean so much less when you really havnt mastered the art of unarmed combat.
anyone who can direct me to a thread where DEVs will see this please provide link.
Nerz
Tue Apr 05, 2005 3:59 pm
#2
well,first: this counts for swordman too,second: you cant use range special abilitys with melee weapons or melee specials with range weapons(if they dont change the way it is on tc now).
Fellstaff
Tue Apr 05, 2005 6:19 pm
#3
The ability to stack is limited. Sure a smuggler can use TKA specials while wearing smuggler armor, but a TKA's biggest strength is tanking.Most of our defenses are 'Unarmed Defenses'. They don't stack with armor, so for a smuggler to get the benefit of TKA defenses they'd need TKA skills, wielding an unarmed weapon, not wearing armor. So what does that make them? It makes them a TKA with smuggler skills, not a smuggler with TKA skills. Smugglers can't use VK's andpistol specials. Commandos can't use VK's and flamethrower specials. Noone can get TKA defenses wearing armor or holding a weapon other than VK's.
Whats the big deal? They've done a good job of limiting stacking. A Master Smuggler with some TKA skills is only gonna be as effective as 'somg TKA skillls' if they're using VK's. If they get TKM, then what are they? Either they're a TKM, when unarmedand unarmored,or a Smuggler, when holding a pistol and wearing an armor.
Flatlinedmemory
Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:32 pm
#4
My point is that as a TKM I should be the best at unarmed combat. I shouldnt have to add smuggler 0040 to be the best at unarmed combat.
Cpl_Fisher
Tue Apr 05, 2005 7:45 pm
#5
Flatlinedmemory wrote:
My point is that as a TKM I should be the best at unarmed combat. I shouldnt have to add smuggler 0040 to be the best at unarmed combat.
As a master rifleman on live, i had to pick up fencer/ pistol 0/0/4/0 , to be the best rifleman
Carbineers and Pistoleers have always had to dabble in BH to be the best carb/pistoleers
Message Edited by Cpl_Fisher on 04-05-2005 08:46 PM
Flatlinedmemory
Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:07 pm
#6
That is infatically wrong. You may have had to pick up better defense in live to compliment your rifle abilities but they do not specifically enhance your rifle abilities.
You bring up a good point about Pistoleers and carbineers. That was an obvious flaw in the system. That has been coorected with the intitutions of general ranged speed and accuracy. A MBH is no longer a better pistoleer or cabineer. They are givin only adequate mods and most of them will be specialze in another ranged mastery.
A lone TKM should be the best at unarmed combat. Smugglers get specific TKM mods such as unarmed accuarcy and unarmed speed. That means a TKM/Smuggler would be the best at unarmed combat. A TKM should not need that to be the best at unarmed combat
You bring up a good point about Pistoleers and carbineers. That was an obvious flaw in the system. That has been coorected with the intitutions of general ranged speed and accuracy. A MBH is no longer a better pistoleer or cabineer. They are givin only adequate mods and most of them will be specialze in another ranged mastery.
A lone TKM should be the best at unarmed combat. Smugglers get specific TKM mods such as unarmed accuarcy and unarmed speed. That means a TKM/Smuggler would be the best at unarmed combat. A TKM should not need that to be the best at unarmed combat
Crono32
Tue Apr 05, 2005 8:56 pm
#7
Another point is that on TC5 the commandos have a cert for aTKA weapon and itsstatsare equalto the stats of theTKAs best weapons (from the blue frog at least). Now even if the stats made by WS aren't actually equal I'm not sure that Commandos should actually get TKA weapons unless they dabble/master TKA. Part of the reason I don't agree with this is because it will try to make Commandos do TKA for their other prof and make TKAs only a steping stone for either Commandoor Smuggler.I am not currently a TKA but I played one for a while and was probably going to make it one of my 2 combat profs. I most likely will end up doing this because I'm unhappy with the pistoleer side of the CU (we don't get a single cert for any of the 5 or so new pistols....... and the same is the case for the caribineers).
MarilynManson
Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:20 pm
#8
Crono32 wrote:we don't get a single cert for any of the 5 or so new pistols....... and the same is the case for the caribineers).
This is still early beta.. Will surely be fixed soon enough
Fellstaff
Tue Apr 05, 2005 9:39 pm
#9
Crono32 wrote:
Another point is that on TC5 the commandos have a cert for aTKA weapon and itsstatsare equalto the stats of theTKAs best weapons (from the blue frog at least). Now even if the stats made by WS aren't actually equal I'm not sure that Commandos should actually get TKA weapons unless they dabble/master TKA. Part of the reason I don't agree with this is because it will try to make Commandos do TKA for their other prof and make TKAs only a steping stone for either Commandoor Smuggler.I am not currently a TKA but I played one for a while and was probably going to make it one of my 2 combat profs. I most likely will end up doing this because I'm unhappy with the pistoleer side of the CU (we don't get a single cert for any of the 5 or so new pistols....... and the same is the case for the caribineers).
Stats on the weapon don't mean much, Commandos are UA4, TKM's are beyond that.. therefore TKM's get higher damage skill mods, more damage from any weapon. A Commando that dabbles in TKA skills is just a weak TKA when it comes to unarmed. and if you're talking about a TKM/Commando, guess what? Either they're unarmed and unarmored, and you call them TKM, or they're stupid running around with a pair of VKS and armor.
Allia_Rain
Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:37 am
#10
Well that depends on what skill caps are, if we still hit unarmed speed cap at TKM then all having smuggler would give us is some more accuracy and some specials with commando only giving an extracert for another knuckler on top of that. With all melee specials being useible with any melee weapon we'd probably get a better bonus to our combatability picking up master brawler and/or another brawler elite profession.
Flatlinedmemory wrote:
A lone TKM should be the best at unarmed combat. Smugglers get specific TKM mods such as unarmed accuarcy and unarmed speed. That means a TKM/Smuggler would be the best at unarmed combat. A TKM should not need that to be the best at unarmed combat
Message Edited by Allia_Rain on 04-06-2005 10:43 AM
Message Edited by Allia_Rain on 04-06-2005 10:45 AM
MarlonB
Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:45 am
#11
They better make us cap at TKM
Allia_Rain wrote:
Well that depends on what skill caps are, if we still hit unarmed speed cap at TKM then all having smuggler would give us is some more accuracy and some specials, commando only giving a cert for another knuckler. With all melee specials being useible with any melee weapon we'd probably get a better bonus to our combatability picking up master brawler and/or another brawler elite profession.
Flatlinedmemory wrote:
A lone TKM should be the best at unarmed combat. Smugglers get specific TKM mods such as unarmed accuarcy and unarmed speed. That means a TKM/Smuggler would be the best at unarmed combat. A TKM should not need that to be the best at unarmed combat
Message Edited by Allia_Rain on 04-06-2005 10:43 AM
..... otherwise it is not worth the title master
Zadioc
Wed Apr 06, 2005 2:50 am
#12
To me the benefit of stacking isn't so a smuggler could use tka specials, it's mainly to build up defenses and accuracy. There's actually a variety of templates you can come up with in the new system, just gotta be patient and see it in live. I doubt the upgrade will be nearly as bad as the message boards make it out to be, it just wouldn't make good business sense to piss off the majority of your customers.
GadonThek
Wed Apr 06, 2005 4:11 am
#13
I just cant wait to see what the result of a TMK using Pikey Crowd Control specials or Swordsman damage specials will be 
Message Edited by GadonThek on 04-06-2005 01:11 PM
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