Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: A RL Martial Arts Master's Opinion On TKA
I chose to make my Character TKA because I'm a Martial Artist. It appeals tome; Martial Arts has been my life since I was 4 years old. I hold the RL title of Master in the Martial Arts. To further my credentials, my RL job is a Professional Men's Gymnastics Coach. I also teach defensive tactics and self defensefor Law Enforcement Agencies. (Now who would think that by night I'm also a computer geek.)
Here are a couple of my opinions on TKA based upon my knowledge of combat.
The thing makes me swear the most is when someone attacks me with their pea shooter, runs away whileshooting over their shoulder, and incapacitates me.
1) Lets take a RL example: If you are standing 7 feet away from me, andholding a gun pointed straight at my head.YOU ARE DEAD! Why is this? Because it takes a certain ammount of time for you to react. You have to see that I'm moving, you have to decide to try and shoot me, you have to re-acquire a target and finally you have to pull a trigger. During the time it took you to do all that, I've already gotten you. I move a distance of 7 feet faster than you can react.
If a TKA ever gets within 2 meters of someone with a clumsy blaster out that blaster boy should be toast.
But in the game... oh youall know the problems there...
2) Another RL example: Take someone, put them in body armor and a helmet. Give them a heavy bulky object that would represent a gun. Now give him a couple seconds to start running, and then go try to catch him. You should catch him easily.
Body armor and a big gun make it harder for you to run. Is there a run speed penalty in the game for wearing armor andcarrying a big gun? Not that I know of.
When the wussy starts running away from a TKA, the TKA should catch him. Assuming of course that like most TKA's you don't wear armor and if your a TRUE TKA you dont use VKs.
3) If someone's running away from me, and I finally catch up to them... Am i going to come to an abrupt halt, step back into my fighting stance and Kiai? (Kiai is that Hi-Ya! thing) Heck no, I'm gonna' jump from my run into a flying side kickand nailthe wussy hard in the body so that he'll stumble back or fall down. He's not going to keep running once I get within combat distance because I know how to prevent said wussy man from getting away.
Is this ability anywhere in TKA? No... All they gotta do is keep running becuse for you to do anything that will cause damage you cant be running. OMG GIVE ME A BREAK! (Due to the fact that children might read this post, I cant say anything more in this paragraph.)
4) In working with Law Enforcement Agencies, I've had the opportunity to attend numerous firearm trainings. It is darned hard to hit anything with a firearm while you are moving, and if your target is moving as well, theres almost no chance of hitting something at a distance of more than a few feet.
Something I've never tried, and never seen taught or tried is turning the head and shoulders around and shooting backwards while running forward. This would be not only a gross violation of firearms safety but also be pretty stupid. Go out to a field turn your head and shoulders looking backward, and run forward. Hmmm I bet you just might trip and fall. Go try this on a hill in the woods, if you dont trip and fall, you'll probably smack into a tree after a rock leaves a nice mark on your shin.No further comments for #4.
Well anyway these are just a few of my thoughts about the combat system for TKA on SWG.
Nice topic, Kasamatsu! I totally agree with you; however, the only real life scenario Holocron andmarksmen want to hear aboutisthem havingan uzi and standing at least 100 feet away from a martial artist before the fight starts. Nevermindthe facts like we, TKA, can't dodge gunfire, and marksman can run and shoot with lock-on pinpoint accuracy.
This is the first MMORPG I have ever played (and I have played many) in which melee was so ineffective in PvP combat, but it is real obvious that the developers don't care about melee vs ranged weapons balance since they agree with the flawed "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" argument.
By the way, I would love to see TKAs given a real life disarm move like smacking a pistol (with both hands) aimed at youin the reverse direction so that it is pointed at the gunman and you are in control of the gun.
TKAs should never be pistol-whipped by a pistoleer; that is just sad.
heheh, a few thoughts...
1) If I get within 2 meters of a gunman, he IS dead...unarmed lunge 2, stun, knockdown 2, smash until bloody mess.
2) I generally don't have too much trouble catching up to gunmen, but that's because I'm pursuing and able to cut corners. I do agree here, body armor should slow running speed.
3) Unarmed lunge once again comes into play here, I know it's no flying kick, but as I chase someone I am spamming that attack constantly, and have had that attack go off at a full run plenty of times to keep me happy (and my opponents on their backs where they belong)
4) From what I understand they ARE reducing accuracy further for running and shooting. However, while it would be more realistic for them to not be able to hit much of anything at all, and be prone to tripping, and falling, and running into walls...the gunners DO need a little bit of a bone here, because if they were unable to do any of this, gunners would be sorely outclassed in a fight. As things stand their only chance against us is kiting, because if we close the gap with them, they are 99% of the time dead (at least in my case =). Sometimes I think they have to make allowances for classes so they don't just end up being everyone elses "b*!@#" 
Just my thoughts, flame as needed.
Liriel Baenre
I don't know, I've never gotten unarmed lunge to work, and I always get target is out of range messages... even when im standing right on top of my target. Oh well. The only thing a TKA should fear from guns is a sniper IMO. I'll keep at and start playing around with that lunge a bit more.
Lunge is about to become next to useles any way. You will only be able to use it once per fight soon and the person you use it on will already be spamming stand before you hit them. The tactic of Lunge+Dizzy+ Lunge will no longer work and without Dizzy + Lunge your just going to get kited all day. Also, I cant state this as fact but,i'm under the impresion that a PC/Mob can only have its posture changed (down) 1 time per 30 seconds so Lunge+ Knockdown will no longer be an option.
Yeah, this nerf could definitely be annoying if they don't get that out of range nonsense fixed. After the nerf I figure our best bet will just be stun, knockdown 2, but we'll have to see what happens =/
Liriel Baenre
LOL, i stopped reading that post after the gun thing.
You have never fought anyone with a gun. You will never fight anyone with a gun and live. Period.
You arent factoring in what i like to call the "Sh*t your pants factor" where you see a gun pointed at your head and YOU are too scared to do anything. You've been doing it for 20 years.. so what?
Taken from www.jetli.com (Yes he is a movie star, he was also chinese wushu champion at age 14)
Situations always vary. It is hard to say under what circumstances it is right or wrong to use martial arts against someone else. Of course, generally speaking, avoiding conflict and resorting to lawful authorities are always the best means of dealing with a dangerous situation. If a robber holds a gun to you and wants your money, it is better to give him the money than to risk your life. A gun outdoes years of martial arts training in a split second. Like I've said many times before, it is important to differentiate between movies and reality. The hero in movies may be able to knock the gun off his opponent and save the day, but in real life - probably that is not the case.
Fists dont beat guns. Bye
Im talking about real life BTW... not the game
Yes I am a TKM, not bashing our class... just this moron.
If a TKA ever gets within 2 meters of someone with a clumsy blaster out that blaster boy should be toast.
But in the game... oh youall know the problems there..."
ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL ROFL
Sorry to interrupt your secret super-vageeta-ninjitsu fantasy, but IRL 7 feet? Pistol to the head? YOU ARE THE ONE WHO IS DEAD. It does NOT take a master super mental badass with a super mind to decide to pull the trigger son... so don't do anything that will get you hurt. Heck you flinch funny and that guy might pull the trigger on accident for crying out loud. A whole lot of mental concentration that took *blam* oops.
Question : Where do you super-ninja's come from? I'd like to know this.
AciDShOrT wrote:
I will say that the nerve impule that goes from your eyes to your finger for a reaction does that a certain amount of time.... but the time it takes to physically move SEVEN FEET is much more time. I know it is possible to do this when i gun is pressed up against you, however any distance where the gun is not in contact with you or within hands reach would just present an absolutely silly situation for attempting to disarm the person.
Sorry, but you're wrong. In the realm of close quarters combat, police are TRAINED to shoot within 21 feet (that's almost 7 full meters boys...). That is the MINIMUM space needed for a shot on target to be cleared before an assailant is able to disarm, or worse, maim/stab/kill a police officer. Don't believe me? It's in numerous training manuals and the source of MUCH debate in the courtroom and out. I found this quote:
"I believe the police go by the "21 foot rule", as explained by Massad Ayoob in COMBAT HANDGUNS. In tests conducted by police trainers, a man standing 21 feet away from the "officer" could, from a standing start, cover 7 yards in 1 and 1/2 seconds. On average, it takes 1 and 1/2 seconds to react and draw and fire once. Even had pictures of a guy 15 feet away, ran toward Mas as he drew. He slapped him on the shoulder as he ran PAST him. Mas had BARELY cleared leather at this point, let alone got sight alignment. @21 feet, he got off one "shot" as guy passed him a split second later. Moral of the story: anyone with an impact/stabbing weapon 21 feet away is a DEADLY threat and should be treated as such. Easily demonstrated in court as well as caselaw."
In a discussion on rec.guns which explains my point. A BIG drill in my kung fu class is the blind reaction time. Attacker stands away from the defender, and charges without warning beginning any flurry of moves. It is the defender's job to train their reaction time and reaction thinking to be able to defend/counterattack. It's quite challenging. I think that holstering gun/rifles should be a requisite for ranged. You can read the original discussion here btw if you're interested in real life CQB:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&threadm=5ra5i9%24303%40xring.cs.umd.edu&rnum=1&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26lr%3D%26ie%3DUTF-8%26selm%3D5ra5i9%2524303%2540xring.cs.umd.edu%26prev%3D/groups%253Fq%253D%25252221%252Bfeet%252522%252Bpolice%2526hl%253Den%2526lr%253D%2526ie%253DUTF-8%2526sa%253DN%2526tab%253Dwg