Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: So.... what exactly is wrong with Stacking Defenses??
As of right now, those who have good defenses due to dedicating their character to it can have good, long battles with other characters similar in build. When we run into someone who is say a doc, or a ranger or whatever, we tend to slaughter them. BUT WHY IS THIS CONSIDERED UNBALANCED? We SHOULD be able to beat them, we CHOSE to make a solid combat character. YOU chose to make a character with other skills, you CHOSE to go overt and you engaged me in combat. Deal with it. So you lost a fight. Waah Waah go complain, OR go do the same and make a combat character, come find me when youre done and we'll fight.
But there's also the question of how fair it is for Fencer/Pistoleers to have 210 Dodge and either a one-handed weapon or a pistol will activate the dodge skill. It raises the question of whether or not there's a High Accuracy Template that would be able to compete with such High Defense Templates. Because the idea is that for an HDT there's an HAT to counter it. However, i don't think there actually is a template that can do that, hence the reducing of defensive mod stacks.I agree, a person who dedicates his character to all defense or all offense or just all combat in general should be much harder to beat by someone who doesn't dedicate all their skill points to one or the other. This is what allows people to be creative with their templates and put some thought into them.
But on the other hand no one should be godly to where they can't be hit at all.
Defense stacking should stay in and should still work, but they should be fixed to where a character is not impossible to hit. Perhaps by taking a drastic hit to the increase after a certain cap is reached or something.
Here is a simple answer for you.
The concept is broken.
Explanation:
If you stack all these defenses, and none of the offences stack, you will have classes of people that are so untouchable vs each other, that all then can do is take on the remainder of the people who have not stacked the defenses. This will breed a group of players that's sole purpose is to take out others who have no chance of defending themselves. It would be like a character that has Novice Pistoleer taking on Novice Marksmen.
I'm sure you've seen the occasional person asking for someone to DB them. Then,while 3 or 4 low level people try to kill them, end up lying there and laughing as they can't be hit, even when they want to.
How is it a bug when It says "Dodge" and not "1 handed dodge" Dodge is dodge no matter what you are holding.
They wrote it as specific and non specific skill bonuses if they messed up and allowed a combination to exceed a limit well then they srewed up.......again.
But the origional poster is right that if they spent their time to make a pure PVP character according to the written rules they should be able to kill people since that is what they trained to do.
If the Dev'sscrewed the poochon not putting a cap on some bonuses then they should admit it and take a pay cut :}
I hope they just set a cap or limit the bonuses so it is not 100% imposible to hit someone. It should be very very hard to hit a pure PVP toon even for a Jedi.
But if they take the abillity of all dodge even at novice fencer that is Flucked up and would mean they just stole some more of our hard work and time to compensate for thier mistake.
I dont PVP due to bad attitudes but I just made master TKA as well as master Brawler so I did a test last night. I have NO other combat skills or bonuses other than Burst run from scout So I looked for a Pure pistol class to deul with. I would select the target hit follow and burst run to them try to UA KD+Dizzy when in range then UA hit 3 till dead as this is what I was told works good for PVP. Well useing just those TKA skills I got my butt kicked fast every time other than one wookie (no armor) that I used a BRAWLER skill on UA lunge 2. It was painfully obvious that at any range greater than 20-30m a master pistoleer/BH can "kite" a master TKA with great results.
Thease test were done maily with no armor, no buffs, no spice, no pets, no flamethrowers just pistol and skill vrs knuckles and skill.
I have to say that me loosing 7 to 1 is not in anyway shape or form UBER and All those who are crying NERF should be slapped.
I have to say that all those I deuled were very honerable and I had fun PVPing due to no little kids talking smack. Just good fun I looked for as many fights as I could but since I am nuetral it was not worth it to some to deul?
If there are any organized battles happening or contests of skill I would love to join to see the apparent better half of PVP. If I die all the time I dont care as I am having fun fighting against others and not just critter a UI.
saridder wrote:
Frost_Dmig wrote:
Here is a simple answer for you.
The concept is broken.
Explanation:
If you stack all these defenses, and none of the offences stack, you will have classes of people that are so untouchable vs each other, that all then can do is take on the remainder of the people who have not stacked the defenses. This will breed a group of players that's sole purpose is to take out others who have no chance of defending themselves. It would be like a character that has Novice Pistoleer taking on Novice Marksmen.
I'm sure you've seen the occasional person asking for someone to DB them. Then,while 3 or 4 low level people try to kill them, end up lying there and laughing as they can't be hit, even when they want to.
Offense stacks. Pistols and the Rouge tree in Smuggler, Carbines and the BH prof, etc. There just doesn't seem to be enough offensive stacking, BUT I have on of those god templates and I get hit by BH's a lot AND if they have accuracy modded clothes, etc, they even it out. So stop whining and build a template that can hit people.
But I do admit if we can create a defensive god template, there should be more options to create a better or more offensive god templates. So instead of calling nerf, fix the other side. It's people like you who ruin the game.
Finally, so what if 2 or 3 newbs can't hit a god template. That's the point - advanced templates are better than intermediate templates. Get it? Why not complain about Master Docs and thier abilities to heal faster than a Novice Medic, as that's the same logic you use.
Hello, I don't post here usually but I feel I must throw in here. I'm just going to cover the PvP side of the debate.
I'm afraid your last paragragh is wrong, at least in the eyes of the Devs. Back before beta, one of the stated goals of the combat system was to have a system where your character did get more powerful as you progressed but was never invulnerable to anyone, including, as you call them "newbs". That doesn't mean a five minute old character could ever hope to kill a Master TKA, however the TKA would recieve some damage. So an overt character with an "uberskills" couldn't hunt down overts of lesser skills with impunity.
In my earlier experience PvPing in EQ I can see why they wanted this.In that game the power differentials are so steep thatoftenif someone ishigh enough over your leveltere'snothing you can do to win. Even when (on some severs) there was a limit the difference between two characters in PvP, there were problems. At times, the differencein capabilities was far greater thanone or two levels would leadyou to believe.
Hmmm.... Who said Nerf. I said it was broken.
I was not whining, I was stating facts.
I'd like some clarification on something, what profession besides BH has bonuses to Pistol or Carbine Accuracy? I thought Smuggler only gave other abilities? I'm not a Noob, going to head you off on this one, and have never given much thought of going Smuggler and have never learned all there is to know about it.
To my knowledge, the Master Marksman skill, BH Carbine skills, and BH Pistol skills are the only skills that add accuracy to Pistols or Carbines besides Pistoleer and Carabineer. Brawler skills have no cross skill bonuses to accuracy.
If I am incorrect on this please let me know. Pease hold off on the sarcasm, get enough of that at work, thanks.
Frost_Dmig wrote:
Here is a simple answer for you.
The concept is broken.
Explanation:
If you stack all these defenses, and none of the offences stack, you will have classes of people that are so untouchable vs each other, that all then can do is take on the remainder of the people who have not stacked the defenses. This will breed a group of players that's sole purpose is to take out others who have no chance of defending themselves. It would be like a character that has Novice Pistoleer taking on Novice Marksmen.
I'm sure you've seen the occasional person asking for someone to DB them. Then,while 3 or 4 low level people try to kill them, end up lying there and laughing as they can't be hit, even when they want to.
Offense stacks. Pistols and the Rouge tree in Smuggler, Carbines and the BH prof, etc. There just doesn't seem to be enough offensive stacking, BUT I have on of those god templates and I get hit by BH's a lot AND if they have accuracy modded clothes, etc, they even it out. So stop whining and build a template that can hit people.
But I do admit if we can create a defensive god template, there should be more options to create a better or more offensive god templates. So instead of calling nerf, fix the other side. It's people like you who ruin the game.
Finally, so what if 2 or 3 newbs can't hit a god template. That's the point - advanced templates are better than intermediate templates. Get it? Why not complain about Master Docs and thier abilities to heal faster than a Novice Medic, as that's the same logic you use.
Frost_Dmig wrote:
Hmmm.... Who said Nerf. I said it was broken.
I was not whining, I was stating facts.
I'd like some clarification on something, what profession besides BH has bonuses to Pistol or Carbine Accuracy? I thought Smuggler only gave other abilities? I'm not a Noob, going to head you off on this one, and have never given much thought of going Smuggler and have never learned all there is to know about it.
To my knowledge, the Master Marksman skill, BH Carbine skills, and BH Pistol skills are the only skills that add accuracy to Pistols or Carbines besides Pistoleer and Carabineer. Brawler skills have no cross skill bonuses to accuracy.
If I am incorrect on this please let me know. Pease hold off on the sarcasm, get enough of that at work, thanks.
I was on a warpath yesterday, so I'll be more civil today. Youare correct in that the Bh tree is the only one that gives you accuracy and speed. I was using the Rouge tree as an example to show that you can get more powerful moves when combined with pistols. I just think they should be able to create more offensive-minded chars that can balance out the defensive ones.
As for the person who said that the Devs intended to makes it competative, Iwasn't around back thenso I'll take your word for it.Also this is the first computer game I've ever played, and as such, I don't have any frame of reference I can compare to, so I'll just use what I "think" should be.
First, I can attest to the fact that I no longer get that adrenaline rush when PvP'ing anymore as I know I can take on 4-5 people at once. It is more boring, but I still die. While it may be unfair that I can always win to the other person, I feel I earned it and don't think one newb template should ever beat me one on one. To offset this, I would like to to think that they would use more people, work as a team and use tactics to fight a more powerful person. That seems more inline with a MMO and encourages teamwork.
Finally, off topic, but I'll bring it up anyways. I don't like this TEF system. I find it unfair that if I kill someone, they come back covert but can still attack me while I can't attack them. I don't understand the logic behind this for PVP. I think if they die covert, they come back covert and if they die overt then they come back overt. I can't keep track of the battlefield when I'm focusing on red dots and there's a bunch of blue dots that suddenly turn red.