Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: tka viable after the upgrade? see attached swg news information thread
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zaal_swinari
Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:09 pm
#1
after reading the link below i started to become worried after just mastering tka if you read through the post down into the second part it refers to the combat upgrade
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_live&message.id=43271
it is a star wars news item - I was particularily interested in the comment
"every movie and book I've read has had primarily ranged combat"
does this mean a end to tka? what is this post supposed to instill to the unarmed community of swg?
I myself am now worried I have grinded out tka to maybe lose its abilities when the upgrade comes around.
what say the rest of you guys or do u think im panicking for no good reason
zaal swinari
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_live&message.id=43271
it is a star wars news item - I was particularily interested in the comment
"every movie and book I've read has had primarily ranged combat"
does this mean a end to tka? what is this post supposed to instill to the unarmed community of swg?
I myself am now worried I have grinded out tka to maybe lose its abilities when the upgrade comes around.
what say the rest of you guys or do u think im panicking for no good reason
zaal swinari
TravonLepen
Thu Jan 06, 2005 3:19 pm
#2
zaal_swinari wrote:
after reading the link below i started to become worried after just mastering tka if you read through the post down into the second part it refers to the combat upgrade
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=in_live&message.id=43271
it is a star wars news item - I was particularily interested in the comment
"every movie and book I've read has had primarily ranged combat"
does this mean a end to tka? what is this post supposed to instill to the unarmed community of swg?
I myself am now worried I have grinded out tka to maybe lose its abilities when the upgrade comes around.
what say the rest of you guys or do u think im panicking for no good reason
zaal swinari
Yes. You are.
Please, don't read too much into Gordon's comments, he is only one developer,and these are just his opinions.There is a whole development staff as well as all of the correspondents and us testers that are dedicated to BALANCING the combat aspects of the game.
Balance does not equal nerf. For any profession.
TheOneWhoTopes
Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:39 pm
#3
if they took any proffesion anyway people would go crazy but think of how people would react if they took tka a way
Jordan_Doffa
Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:21 am
#4
Yeah, I think you're worrying for no reason, as well.
In my own opinion, having tried a few combat professions in my time playing, Teras Kasi is really one of the more balanced professions. Rather then nerfing us, I think that they are going to bring up the rest of professions to be on par with Teras Kasi.
Well, no, that's not what I mean entirely. It's still early, so as close as I can think to explain it is that the inherent strengths and weaknesses of professions should be made clearer.
Porinjikerri
Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:37 pm
#5
How about, no one knows what the CU will do to any combat profession, and those that do won't say becuase of NDA's. In any case, the CU is still prolly going to be developed for a very long time, and we have been given no indication whatsoever as to when it will finally go live. So live for today, fight like there's no tomorrow, and when the CU comes along, you will be as clueless about what to do as the next guy, and only experimentation will answer any of your questions, not posting on the forums for advice.
Moria Gen
RifleMaster - TKM
Imperial Colonel
RifleMaster - TKM
Imperial Colonel
ShinjoKazuki
Sat Jan 08, 2005 5:02 pm
#6
yea they definitly wouldnt take out an entire proffesion, he was probably just refering to how it was before when "dont take a knife to a gun fight"
Kasamatsu
Sat Jan 08, 2005 7:47 pm
#7
Well let me give my expert feedback on the topic of melee combat vs ranged combat in general. As long as the combatants are humanoid in structure, this applies in RL and Science Fantasy (and hopefully someday to SWG as well). In order to not create a book-of-a-post I will leave some concepts general and discuss them more specifically if the point arises.
Ranged combat is the primary form of engagement, most especially large scale battles, for any technologically inclined society. It requires much less effort and training to point and pull a trigger or push a button. It takes longer for the untrained to kill by beating, cutting, etc than to shoot any sort of gun. It is more difficult to defend oneslef with technology such as armor against a fired weapon than a melelee action, lightsabers being the exception. It is very unlikely that this will change, though there are always exceptions. It is easier kill than protect. Our bodies are fragile.
However melee combat is an essential counter to ranged combat, and always will be. While it is ineffective to have an army of purely melee combatants, it is also a realllllly bad idea to have a group made up of people who cannot defend themselves at point-blank range. Guns are completely inneffective inside a range of about 6-7m. A combat group with no hand to hand training who get into melee range can effectively be wiped out by a far lesser number of trained melee attackers, therefore it is essential to have hand to hand ability, even in a time of laser guns.
Now there are special circumstances with the SWG video game. The fact that gun range is suverely limited to only 64m makes it much easier for a melee to close the gap and engage. However a decent, unintended ballance to that is that there is no "friendly fire" so that ranged people can shoot into their own ranks at a melee with zero consequence. Also, for the fun factor, the game is designed to eliminate one-hit kills. This works in favor of melee more, but isn't completely one-sided; it only takes one swipe of a sword to remove a head from the shoulders, or one properly aimed strike to render someone unconscious, or otherwise unable to fight in any fashon.
Melee will never die out because it drives ranged combat. If not for melee than it just becomes a matter of "who's got the biggest gun." Guns take a lot of skill out of fighting, but against those with skill a gun is just a roll of the die-- a prayer to get a lucky shot. Techniques and methods will change over time due to technology, but the need to defend in close quarters is absolutely essential.
Tong-Fei
Ranged combat is the primary form of engagement, most especially large scale battles, for any technologically inclined society. It requires much less effort and training to point and pull a trigger or push a button. It takes longer for the untrained to kill by beating, cutting, etc than to shoot any sort of gun. It is more difficult to defend oneslef with technology such as armor against a fired weapon than a melelee action, lightsabers being the exception. It is very unlikely that this will change, though there are always exceptions. It is easier kill than protect. Our bodies are fragile.
However melee combat is an essential counter to ranged combat, and always will be. While it is ineffective to have an army of purely melee combatants, it is also a realllllly bad idea to have a group made up of people who cannot defend themselves at point-blank range. Guns are completely inneffective inside a range of about 6-7m. A combat group with no hand to hand training who get into melee range can effectively be wiped out by a far lesser number of trained melee attackers, therefore it is essential to have hand to hand ability, even in a time of laser guns.
Now there are special circumstances with the SWG video game. The fact that gun range is suverely limited to only 64m makes it much easier for a melee to close the gap and engage. However a decent, unintended ballance to that is that there is no "friendly fire" so that ranged people can shoot into their own ranks at a melee with zero consequence. Also, for the fun factor, the game is designed to eliminate one-hit kills. This works in favor of melee more, but isn't completely one-sided; it only takes one swipe of a sword to remove a head from the shoulders, or one properly aimed strike to render someone unconscious, or otherwise unable to fight in any fashon.
Melee will never die out because it drives ranged combat. If not for melee than it just becomes a matter of "who's got the biggest gun." Guns take a lot of skill out of fighting, but against those with skill a gun is just a roll of the die-- a prayer to get a lucky shot. Techniques and methods will change over time due to technology, but the need to defend in close quarters is absolutely essential.
Tong-Fei
Message Edited by Kasamatsu on 01-08-2005 06:49 PM
haho
Tue Jan 11, 2005 11:48 pm
#8
Kasamatsu wrote:
Well let me give my expert feedback on the topic of melee combat vs ranged combat in general. As long as the combatants are humanoid in structure, this applies in RL and Science Fantasy (and hopefully someday to SWG as well). In order to not create a book-of-a-post I will leave some concepts general and discuss them more specifically if the point arises.
Guns are completely inneffective inside a range of about 6-7m. A combat group with no hand to hand training who get into melee range can effectively be wiped out by a far lesser number of trained melee attackers, therefore it is essential to have hand to hand ability, even in a time of laser guns.
1. Never compare real life to a game
2. Id like to see how inneffective a gun is when Im pointing one at your head from 20ft away
lostgunman
Wed Jan 12, 2005 9:22 am
#9
point 1: true, games a real life are completely. Science Fiction is exacty that...fiction.
point 2: You better be one bad ass shot. 1 quick dodge and you miss with your pistol 20' away. Police aim for 8-10' TOPS. at 20' you are almost 3 times more likely to miss without a LOT of training.
Hand a person a gun or a sword. Against a standing target and assuming an average person...the target dies no matter what. At optimum range for each weapon, you are MUCH less likely to miss with a sword than with a gun. Heck, there was a new story on no too long ago about a guy dodging bullets at 6' away, and he was a lawyer or something...not trained.
Explaining why melee is as good as ranged...Watch Remo Williams, a little fiction isn't THAT hard to find. And there are people who are in martial arts that dodge bullets in REAL life also (ever watch That's Incredible back in the day).
Yes, modern warfare is fought with guns. 1 squad vs. another squad. BUT, when it's one on one, and your about 5' away...hell...I would take a sword any day (Also I have 6 years of martial arts and a blackbelt, so I know the odds and my ability)
Chodo235
Thu Jan 13, 2005 10:57 pm
#10
im hoping ranged weapons are a popular choice then melee after the CU, im a tkm my self but, I still like pistoleer.
SpinningCloud
Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:55 pm
#12
Kasamatsu; "Guns are completely inneffective inside a range of about 6-7m."
Huh?
I'm an RL martial artists of 3 decades and I would not get into a fight with someone with a gun that was 20 feet from me. I have NO chance of closing the distance and disarming him before he gets more than a few shots off at me.
I might also add it takes FAR less time to reaim a pistol at 20 feet (6-7m) than it does to dodge the aim.
Now where I would be comfortable against someone with a pistol is at arms length from me (ONE meter) with the person having the gun in a pocket. Under those conditions I think I could kill them before they could retrieve and aim their weapon.
On most battlefields I would much prefer to have a firearm. If you haven't spotted and targeted your opponent before arms reach you're taking a huge chance.
Now in a bar or walking down the street where people don't typically walk around with a pistol or rifle in their hands I prefer to be an unarmed expert. Unfortunately in SWG it is acceptable to walk around CARRYING your weapon.
Personally I think SWG city police should enforce some kind of carry permit...basically stopping anyone that has their weapon equiped. Then, in cities, unarmed would have a distinct advantage...well bare-knuckled at least, which I find preferable for TKA from an asthetic perspective.
SpinningCloud
Sat Jan 15, 2005 1:01 am
#13
lostgunman; "and your about 5' away"
At 5 feet I'd take a sword IF the gun wasn't already out and ready. At five feet I don't miss with my Beretta. I'm also quite handy with both Chinese straightswords and the Japanese katana and it takes a LOT longer to deal an incapacitating blow with either than it does to deal one with a pistol at 5 feet. It's really simple; the movements necessary to deal an incap blow with a sword are MUCH bigger than the wrist-aim and finger-pull for a pistol. Bigger movements take more time.
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