Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: tka viable after the upgrade? see attached swg news information thread
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LagSolo
Sun Jan 16, 2005 3:37 pm
#14
Melee is a viable combat skill, even in a world of ranged combat.
They teach it to you in the armed forces, they teach it to you in the police acadamies.
Current "meat world" police training doctrine puts you in the center of a circle 30 feet in diameter.....within that 15 foot radius you only have 1 to 2 seconds if you are lucky to react against an unarmed perpetrator...and thats with you being armed....cause if you do not react you will wind up losing.
Adrenaline is a SOB when you are trying to accurately engage an opponent witha firearm.....We were told firefights at the range of 15 feet usually leave both opponents unhit after firing an average of 17 rounds each....
It's been a while and the statistics might have changed but this is what I remember from my training.
And I know this is a game and in no way resembles real life but......even in the Star Wars Universe they had to change the power cells on their weapons.....
Marsirion
Tue Jan 18, 2005 5:10 pm
#15
http://www.manatarmsbooks.com/excerpt.html
lostgunman wrote:
point 1: true, games a real life are completely. Science Fiction is exacty that...fiction.
point 2: You better be one bad ass shot. 1 quick dodge and you miss with your pistol 20' away. Police aim for 8-10' TOPS. at 20' you are almost 3 times more likely to miss without a LOT of training.
Hand a person a gun or a sword. Against a standing target and assuming an average person...the target dies no matter what. At optimum range for each weapon, you are MUCH less likely to miss with a sword than with a gun. Heck, there was a new story on no too long ago about a guy dodging bullets at 6' away, and he was a lawyer or something...not trained.
Explaining why melee is as good as ranged...Watch Remo Williams, a little fiction isn't THAT hard to find. And there are people who are in martial arts that dodge bullets in REAL life also (ever watch That's Incredible back in the day).
Yes, modern warfare is fought with guns. 1 squad vs. another squad. BUT, when it's one on one, and your about 5' away...hell...I would take a sword any day (Also I have 6 years of martial arts and a blackbelt, so I know the odds and my ability)
This link shows a historical refrence as to the development of the .45 Cal and in my opinion lends credence to both melee vs. ranged arguments.
Moral of the story: You better have a bad- ass pistol with stopping power if you are going against a determined melee foe otherwise you are chopped meat.
baje
Fri Jan 21, 2005 12:45 pm
#16
If you want to train in martial arts then do so...if you want to fight, buy a gun.
love that quote from my teacher...the other one is when someone asked him if he was better than bruce lee...he replied, "bruce lee is dead."
melee has a place
guns have a place
put them together and you have to figure out how to survive one if you are the other.
ed gruberman approach so you may learn the true meaning of tae kwan leep
Kasamatsu
Sat Jan 22, 2005 6:32 am
#17
The science fantasy is still based upon certain rules and such that limit our abilities. We are still talking about bipedal humanoids and so we can compare the two based upon that set of rules, real or fiction.
A trained shooter needs about 5 meters to draw a handgun, aquire a target and squeeze off a round... against an average opponent armed with a "melee weapon". That grows to about 7 meters with a larger firearm like a rifle... the longer structure makes target aquisition more difficult. Then again if you're talking about an Uzi-weilding opponent who's playing spray & pray, well who knows.
Against an opponent who has proper physical preparation... one who has specifically developed type 2b muscle fiber reflexes to be exact... can close the gap faster. An opponent who has been trained as a shooter will already know the limitations phisiologically and psychologically of effectively aquiring and tracking a target, and thus put this into practice while closing the gap. The muscles in your hand and arm have a limited range of motion and don't work as fast or as accurately when trying to move in certain directions. Your eyes are also limited to around 25 frames per second and can also be fooled, especially in judging distances of moving objects/ depth perception.
If the gun is already out and pointed at my head... well then:
If you're within 3 feet, you still have little chance of being able to shoot me, as I can close that gap faster than you can react: see me start to meove, process the stimulus sent to your brain, re-aquire the target, decide to pull the trigger, and have your brain send the signal to your finger to pull the trigger.
If I'm 20 feet away, well then I obviously did something wrong to let you get me into that position, and I'm most likely dead. However if you have been trained in firearms, you shouldn't be aiming at my head to begin with from such a distance... you should be trained to double-tap center mass.
I never said anything about dodging or waiting for you to pull the gun out and point it at my head. And once I get my hands on you, you're going to the ground and you will be tied up in a nice little bow.
There is no ultimate I-win way. Guns have their place... a much larger place in a fantasy video game, and there are many situations that I would much rather have a firearm at my disposal. But melee will always be an effective counter to guns in certain situations, and will always be viable.
A trained shooter needs about 5 meters to draw a handgun, aquire a target and squeeze off a round... against an average opponent armed with a "melee weapon". That grows to about 7 meters with a larger firearm like a rifle... the longer structure makes target aquisition more difficult. Then again if you're talking about an Uzi-weilding opponent who's playing spray & pray, well who knows.
Against an opponent who has proper physical preparation... one who has specifically developed type 2b muscle fiber reflexes to be exact... can close the gap faster. An opponent who has been trained as a shooter will already know the limitations phisiologically and psychologically of effectively aquiring and tracking a target, and thus put this into practice while closing the gap. The muscles in your hand and arm have a limited range of motion and don't work as fast or as accurately when trying to move in certain directions. Your eyes are also limited to around 25 frames per second and can also be fooled, especially in judging distances of moving objects/ depth perception.
If the gun is already out and pointed at my head... well then:
If you're within 3 feet, you still have little chance of being able to shoot me, as I can close that gap faster than you can react: see me start to meove, process the stimulus sent to your brain, re-aquire the target, decide to pull the trigger, and have your brain send the signal to your finger to pull the trigger.
If I'm 20 feet away, well then I obviously did something wrong to let you get me into that position, and I'm most likely dead. However if you have been trained in firearms, you shouldn't be aiming at my head to begin with from such a distance... you should be trained to double-tap center mass.
I never said anything about dodging or waiting for you to pull the gun out and point it at my head. And once I get my hands on you, you're going to the ground and you will be tied up in a nice little bow.
There is no ultimate I-win way. Guns have their place... a much larger place in a fantasy video game, and there are many situations that I would much rather have a firearm at my disposal. But melee will always be an effective counter to guns in certain situations, and will always be viable.
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