Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Exact description of how FoW is working on TC
All in all I like the system - without posting an essay, make these two changes, Dev group :
1) set timer to 30 minutes - 60 is really too long, and much shorter allows Teras Kasi to more or less be unkillable.
2) cut the battle fatigue penalty in the one instance from 100 to 50. 100 is WAY extreme.
I'd rather have the hour timer then this 100 BF.
Gillies
Teras Kasi Master, Tarquinas
First let me say this: If this change stays as is...I promise you, and you can quote me, "This will become another useless skill that no one will choose to use..why?
1) I f I get incapped and stay incapped for 45 seconds and get up with no wounds and WAY less battle fatigue than if FoW worked, then what is my motivation to use it in the first place?
because you only have 5 to 10 seconds before the mob/player comes over to DB you!
I would rather stay incapped for a whole minute than to take such a huge risk in getting wounds and 100 Battle fatigue.
see #1. and at master you have what? a 95% success rate! My goodness what a risk!
Once again this is typical dev tactic...give us a bone and then punish us so badly for using it that quite frankly, we wont, ever!
2) There should be no Battle Fatigue whatsoever other than that sustained from BATTLE!
actually battle fatigue makes more sense than wounds....think of it...you have just been pulverized to the point of unconciousness and somewhere within your will you muster the strength to standup, does your body suddenlyhave extra wounds? no course not... but lemme tell ya after that adrenaline rush your gonna be very very tired.
3) A ONE HOUR TIMER?!?!?! Ok step away from the crack pipe! Do you how many time I get incapped in one hour of hard PvP or mission play against hard mobs?! This should be 15 minute timer at the very MOST
If used at the right time this ability is like a doctor rez only without the doctor...it WILL save your butt on many occasions. Think PvP where you are incapped on the ground and that commando is walking towards you to DB you. When suddenly you pop up! stick your hand into the commandos chest and rip out his beating heart....wont he be suprised! hehe!
As far as viewing it in combination with the death and decay rules, it makes you more likely to die from the three strikes rule, thus more likely to have equipment decay. Given that many creatures deathblow you the instant you fall (so no time to /force), and the ones that don't often don't deathblow at all, standing back up with hostiles right there could be very bad for me ANYway (even if the penalties for the /force were lessened).
Anyway, the BF is probably the worst component, followed by lousy re-use. I take vastly less BF from an uninsured death than I would from a large percentage of the skill use, and BF does affect my ability to keep functional (especially in 100 point doses).
Mister_Heavy wrote:
Ok fellow TKAs, here's an exact description of how FoW is working on TC currently, courtesy of the SWG Devs.
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1) Character must be incapacitated - Execute /forceOfWill - Roll d100
- a) if the roll is less than 5, automatic failure
- b) if the roll is greater than the character's meditation skill mod, failure
- c) if roll less than or = character's meditation skill mod, success
note: standard meditation skill mod for a TKA with /forceOfWill is 75
2) If the character fails the skill roll, he/she will remain incapacitated per normal rules and will be unable to use the command for the duration of that incapacitation If the character succeeds, the roll delta (skill mod - original d100 roll) is passed to the function where the following occurs:
a) if delta is less than 10, the character will sustain 100 wounds to each pool and 100 battle fatigue
b) if delta greater than or = 10 & less than 40, temporary reductions of 200pts to all pools will be applied (5min) and 100 battle fatigue
c) if delta greater than or = 40 & less than 70, temporary reductions of 100pts to all pools will be applied (5min)
d) if delta greater than or = 70, no negative effects are applied to the character
e) an effect similar to the zabrak innate "equalize" is applied to the character
f) a 1 hour reuse timer is applied
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Note that the timer resets upon death.
Some observations:
The stated standard med score of 75 is almost certainly not counting the master box. I'm not at home right now, so I can't check this myself, but I believe the med score for a TKA master is 100, not 75. This means that at TKM, your chance of success is 95% versus a 70% chance at master med. Very nice bump for the master box.
The breakdown for the probability of each outcome at TKA master level would be as follows:
Failure = 5% (Happens with the D100 roll is between 0 and 5)
Success (a) = 10% (Happens when the D100 roll is between 91 and 100)
Success (b) = 30% (Happens when the D100 roll is between 61 and 90)
Success (c) = 30% (Happens when the D100 roll is between 31 and 60)
Success (d) = 25% (Happens when the D100 roll is between 6 and 30)
So you'd have a 1 in 4 chance of the skill working properly with no side effects.
I'd like to get a discussion going on the probability of each outcome occurring, and the penalty for partial success. It occurs to me that the 900 wounds you'll get 1 in 10 times you use the skill is a bit harsh. I'm not a fan of the battle fatigue either.
I'd also like everyone's take on the 60 minute timer. My first reaction is to say that 60 minutes is too long for a skill that's clearly less effective than the Zabrak's innate ability. After all, it's a 4th tier skill of an elite professions. It should be an excellent skill, not a striped down version of a skill you can get for free by picking the right species. If they changed the timer to 15-20 minutes, what would the effect be? Would it be unbalancing? What situations would it be too powerful in? How would it influence PvP, PvE?
Note that it's only on TC so far, so we still have time to give input. So in summary:
1) What do you guys think about the probability for each level of success? Is it balanced? Weigh the power with the problems.
2) What do you think about the types of penalties? Is a HAM penalty the best thing to do? What about the 5 minutes; too short/ too long? Is battle fatigue (guaranteed downtime) appropriate? is a 1 in 10 chance of getting 900 wounds an acceptable risk? Do you think these penalties are a good way to represent the lingering effects of a martial arts master using extreme concentration to pull themselves out of unconsciousness?
3) In your opinion, Is a 60 minute timer appropriate? Why or why not? In what situations (if any) would a reduced timer lead to the skill being overpowered?
Ok I just want to clear this up abit, cause it seems to me there aren't too many TKA in here that actually have FoW, and have used it. I personally am a Master TKA and absolutely love the new changes(except for some small kinks).
Mister_Heavymade a slight miscalculation. The chances for waking up with the wounds is only 5% not 10%, that is in reality 1 in 20 times that you will sustain wounds, it so far has happened to me once. Remember if you roll below 5 you dont res, only inbetween 5 and 10 is wounds.
The chances of getting wounds really arent bad at all, however it is kind of shady that we have a huge chance of having decreased stats and no shot at perfect stats. I would love to see a 5-10% chance that we get un-incaped with full HAM.
The way it decides how much HAM you have when you wake up is interesting, I am not sure good or bad. As it is that I most always die from mind incap(or normal incap Health or Action, after I dont have ebough Mind to heal myself). When I get mind incap with full Health and Action I come back ready to blast into battle.. with my mind being partially restored as the Health and Action I had, distributed itself into my mind as well. However if I get incap and didnt manage to get that last heal out so that I have full Health and Action I will jump into battle nearly dead. And what if by off chance I get incapedby Health and only have 1 action, and I have full mind. All the sudden my full mind(the only stat that really matters) is divided by 3!! Ouch. But as we can see there are many different events that could happen, some pretty good and some pretty bad, I would just like to see some way of deciding your HAM upon waking up that was still based upon your HAM upon incap but also have some chance of being boosted. Maybe a x% chance that when up you get your HAM+50% divided amoungst your stat pools, or potentially your HAM+500 divided amoungst your stat pools.This could further stratify your successes as it is that the failures are stratified.
One other side note, is that I will have to completely agree with the 60 minute timer being a little excessive. Yesterday I was hunting at the Force Cave on Dantooine(really far from town). I got incap raised myself, and oops my power boost wore off right then immediatly incaping myself again.. errrr.. Well by this time the Force dude I was fighting has finished off the rest of the group and meandered his way over to slay me.. **edit**. So I clone at mining outpost, Jump on my newly aquired Carrion Spat and start treking back up there. Twice on the way I stop to kill pairs of Force Mystics that I ran into.. I get back to the cave sit and rest a second and then jump back into Battle, after killing another 10-15 enemies, I was again incap and I press FoW with instinct.. I get the Message 4:54 left til you can use FoW again. errr again. It seems to me that the timer was put in to keep people from chaining FoW, as in get incap res, get incap again res, etc.. Even more so to make it that a TKA couldnt use it twice in the same battle. But I dont think many battles last an hour, (or at least not as a Melee proffesion).
Devs should maybe consider this.. Have the timer decided by your roll. If you roll a complete success, you were not mentally taxed at all, so you should be able to use it again soon. And if u had a poor success like jumped up with 100 wounds, you should have to wait a while longer. I would still say that the max wait time should be 30 minutes, that is enough to keep it from being uber-L33T, and low enough to make it usable.
Elwood - Master TKA; Master Brawler; Medic 4443; Artisan 0040; Merchant 0002;
The 100 battle Fatigue has to go. If you're away from town and get hit with the 100 BF you're totally screwed. There is no way FoW should have the same penalty as death.
Just sayno to FoW = BF of any amount.
Eickera Ackbis
Intrepid Server
DarkWonderer wrote:
The 100 battle Fatigue has to go. If you're away from town and get hit with the 100 BF you're totally screwed. There is no way FoW should have the same penalty as death.
Just sayno to FoW = BF of any amount.
Eickera Ackbis
Intrepid Server
Um... eh... not really. I must be a much player than you or something. I don't mind the b/f penalty 3 in 5 times. Gives me a chance to rest up in the cantina, and help a (NON-AFKING) entertainer.
The best use I have for Force of Will is to keep my pets from getting incapped or (worse) db's and losing vitality in a tough fight where I have been incapped. I am Master TKA and CH.
Wounds are no problem with Med 4 and I don't really worry much about BF now since I think the only effect is to make it harder for a medic to heal your wounds, and I heal my own in no time by meditating. So I attempt it every time I get incapped in order to be able to med up and return to the fight faster. I don't see any negatives to using FoW.
The one hour timer is another story. It should be 30 or even 15 minutes IMO.
I agree with the above post totally.
The one hour timer has to be either removed totally or drastically reduced to like 15 minutes. Let's be realistic on the timer - one hour is an insane amount of time to use the skill, especially at the master tk level.
Let's see a semi - fast fix on this too.
Mister_Heavy wrote:
1) What do you guys think about the probability for each level of success? Is it balanced? Weigh the power with the problems.
2) What do you think about the types of penalties? Is a HAM penalty the best thing to do? What about the 5 minutes; too short/ too long? Is battle fatigue (guaranteed downtime) appropriate? is a 1 in 10 chance of getting 900 wounds an acceptable risk? Do you think these penalties are a good way to represent the lingering effects of a martial arts master using extreme concentration to pull themselves out of unconsciousness?
3) In your opinion, Is a 60 minute timer appropriate? Why or why not? In what situations (if any) would a reduced timer lead to the skill being overpowered?
1) No issues with success rate.
2) Penalties seem okay to me.
3) This is the big killer for this skill. One hour between uses? That doesn't make this skillnearly as useful as it should be. The BF from each use ought to be a big enough preventative from spamming this over and over again, as if the '3 Falls = Death' rule. If there has to be a timer at all, I personally think there should be a 10 minute timer, 15-20 max. Perhaps eeven give people with Meditation 4a 15 minute timer and give Masters a 10 minute timer. One way or another, a one hour timer is far too much to make this a consistently useful skill. Increase BF if you have to, but allow use to use our own skills on a more regular basis.
In my experience at TKM, I fail the darn skill 95% of the time it seems, I never get up. I'm not sure exactly why, if I should be succeeding 95% of the time - even if I sustain wounds orBF. But if I can't use it again for an hour, it should be made easier to pull off because I'm just not seeing a 95% success rate.
here's my 2 cents on it.
1.application/mechanics of the way it works is fine.
2.wounds are not applicable, you are using your own "willpower/chi" why should i take any wounds to health, action or mind. i could see a reduction in mind pool that regens up as normal.
2a.BF is battle fatigue caused by seeing and experinceing the ravages of war/fighting, drawing on your inner chi does not and should not cause BF of any kind.
3. timer reduce it to 10-15min.