Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: Focus Thread: Innate Armour vs Battle Armour The Armour Break Debate
Mad_Mick
Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:04 pm
#67
Hmmm
well i think that a ab mitigation is the way to go placed in one of the usless taunt boxes or on master tkm,
its not to crazy or insanly overpowerd to ask for, look at us as a proffesion now since cu we are ALL about damage taking not dealing and we should be able to stand and tank better than anyone else.
im not saying 100% mitigation or anything else as silly but some mitigation is i think deserved by the proffesion that was clearly stated as the main 'TANKING' proff, we can wear no armour at cl52 and that is where the mark was set not at cl80 with another combat proffession, we need/deserve this its what we were promised at the cu and once the bugs were sorted it was great, now the goalposts have shifted with ab slicing and we need a bump up.
we have to keep up with the current builds or were gonna fall to far behind
blz
Thu Sep 29, 2005 4:29 am
#68
I prefer AB recovery most out of all the options, but I think it would need to have a reasonably long cooldown timer on it to be fair/balanced. It might be a stickler to code in "only when in innate armour" for the skill though. Food sounds OK as well, but wouldn't that have the same issue of needing special code to ensure its only applicable when unarmoured/'wearing' innate armour?
I don't really PvP much so it's notthat big a deal for me, I just hope the solution doesn't end up being to nerf slicing.
maigy
Thu Sep 29, 2005 6:00 am
#69
I just want to say, my stance has lessoned considorably. I am not sure that TKMs should get the armor break resistance, because it costs so much for other professions to get it... Ihave a master smuggler/pistoleerm in addition to my TKM... and I just bought a nice shinniny new quad enery layered suit of rebel marine armor fully enhanced for +350 health... this cost me quite a bit.
I know I want to start PvPing with this toon, so I need to slice my armor. well this is what got me... I do thelevel 1slice to get the 25% AB resists. I then go to do the level 250% slice and it requires, what shock absorbabnt padding, so I look through my 100s of slicing loot... no shock absorbant padding, I look to see what the level 3 75% slice takes, it is resistant micro plating. I have over 100 of these. I was like well I can do teh level 3 slice all day, but I can't do the level 2 to get there.
So anyway, I go to the bazaar and do a vendor search there are about 20 of these for sale in my galaxy(radiant) the cheapest of which is 500k most expensive is 1 million. So currently in my galaxy it would only be possible for me to slice 20 pieces of armor for 75% AB resists... it takes 7 pieces for a full suit so that is less than 3 suits.
For me to slice this armor, that already cost me a ton of money, and I have already loaded up with some very nice AAs, will be at least3.5 million. This doesnt seem fair taht TKM will get something, that costs non-TKMs 3.5 million to get, for free.
I would propose capping the AB resists for TKM at 25%, because that is what non-TKMs can get for free.
Kresh_Azzo
Thu Sep 29, 2005 8:02 am
#70
maigy wrote:I just want to say, my stance has lessoned considorably. I am not sure that TKMs should get the armor break resistance, because it costs so much for other professions to get it... I have a master smuggler/pistoleerm in addition to my TKM... and I just bought a nice shinniny new quad enery layered suit of rebel marine armor fully enhanced for +350 health... this cost me quite a bit.I know I want to start PvPing with this toon, so I need to slice my armor. well this is what got me... I do the level 1 slice to get the 25% AB resists. I then go to do the level 250% slice and it requires, what shock absorbabnt padding, so I look through my 100s of slicing loot... no shock absorbant padding, I look to see what the level 3 75% slice takes, it is resistant micro plating. I have over 100 of these. I was like well I can do teh level 3 slice all day, but I can't do the level 2 to get there.So anyway, I go to the bazaar and do a vendor search there are about 20 of these for sale in my galaxy(radiant) the cheapest of which is 500k most expensive is 1 million. So currently in my galaxy it would only be possible for me to slice 20 pieces of armor for 75% AB resists... it takes 7 pieces for a full suit so that is less than 3 suits.For me to slice this armor, that already cost me a ton of money, and I have already loaded up with some very nice AAs, will be at least 3.5 million. This doesnt seem fair taht TKM will get something, that costs non-TKMs 3.5 million to get, for free.I would propose capping the AB resists for TKM at 25%, because that is what non-TKMs can get for free.
Very reasonable idea. My main is a BH/Doc, and armor costs are, well not killing me, but nonetheless very expensive. The answer to the economy part of the slicing problem seems to be opening up new spawns for the "other" professions to loot from, seeing as how only BH have direct access to them without forum diving. That would lower the prices of these things quite a bit. The 25% slice is the most balanced idea I have seen to date on this though in terms of IA.
iijin
Thu Sep 29, 2005 11:05 am
#71
Really the only options are the power boost or work it into CoB, of course then you would have to make CoB work only when unarmored...otherwise people would stack AB sliced armor with TKM's ability for AB resistance and viola a.......SPLOIT!!.......LOL not really but it would result in a whole new argument.
Personally I would say, cut the improved Cob to +400 defense and leave it where it is (tier 1), make a new master box advanced Cob and give it the +500 and 65% resistance to AB. This MUST be at master box!
I would even go for making it a seperate CoB type thing, placed at master of course...and make it so you dont have to freakin stand still for that crap!
while your at it....get them to make CoB exectuable while running PLEASE for the love of GOD!!!
keenism
Thu Sep 29, 2005 9:32 pm
#72
Ok, to keep the other professions from bitching just do away with innate armor and give us something to actually make us the best tanks, our ASSIGNED role...jesus. It is totally pointless to become master when you can get cob and much higher damage output from another profession.
Kresh_Azzo
Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:22 am
#73
keenism wrote:Ok, to keep the other professions from bitching just do away with innate armor and give us something to actually make us the best tanks, our ASSIGNED role...jesus. It is totally pointless to become master when you can get cob and much higher damage output from another profession.
I would like to see some of the ideas in this thread come about, but I don't want TK's to become any more of a mini-jedi than we already are. We are already decent tanks, but like every other profession we have to pull from other professions to make a complete template. I have a TK/Doc, which are probably the two most dabbled professions for melee, yet I seem to find them very powerful when combined. Who needs area taunt when you can heal for 2000+ in this system? =)
As far as IA goes, I find free armor that sits at 6000 across the board resists to be somewhat of a gift, althought the 25% AB is an excellent and balanced idea. (and I would like to see at least one more good thing come to those who master the profession.) I have to state though that I consistently point new players to TK just for the innate armor. Becoming a BH/Ranged/Non-TK melee is extremely expensive for them, and TK provides a way for them to buck much of that and be successful. As an experienced player, I know when to equip the armor and when to remove, and how to be successful, and my overhead on this toon is very low. My favorite toon actually.
Kresh_Azzo
Fri Sep 30, 2005 8:33 am
#74
Okay, chiming in on how I would like to see this done.
I would like to see some extra bonuses dropped in with our existing COB or powerboost at the master level, leaving the current abilities where they are for those players who have it in their templates (they earned the boxes, taking it away would be a nerf). Why master? Because we are the one's who obviously want to use the innate armor, we spent many skillpoints to obtain it, and I don't think bonusing powerboost or COB in their current positions is fair to the rest of the profession.
Of course with good comes negative - As someone said, there is the issue of people stacking regular armor with a new and "improved" version of either of these abilities. Simply put with choices come costs, if you wear armor the enhanced ability (whichever is chosen) is negated entirely. (Now, I am going to get torched for this one).
Edited for grammar, which is poor I know.
I would like to see some extra bonuses dropped in with our existing COB or powerboost at the master level, leaving the current abilities where they are for those players who have it in their templates (they earned the boxes, taking it away would be a nerf). Why master? Because we are the one's who obviously want to use the innate armor, we spent many skillpoints to obtain it, and I don't think bonusing powerboost or COB in their current positions is fair to the rest of the profession.
Of course with good comes negative - As someone said, there is the issue of people stacking regular armor with a new and "improved" version of either of these abilities. Simply put with choices come costs, if you wear armor the enhanced ability (whichever is chosen) is negated entirely. (Now, I am going to get torched for this one).
Edited for grammar, which is poor I know.
Message Edited by Kresh_Azzo on 09-30-2005 11:35 AM
Stomis
Sun Oct 02, 2005 1:06 pm
#75
Solution to this balance is fix Force Of Will. Force of Will should be turned on or off as an instant move so PvE enemies cant get the instant DB off. And it should be fixed in Pvp...
Kresh_Azzo
Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:57 am
#76
Stomis wrote:
Solution to this balance is fix Force Of Will. Force of Will should be turned on or off as an instant move so PvE enemies cant get the instant DB off. And it should be fixed in Pvp...
What does Force of Will have to do with Innate Armor and Armor Break?
Message Edited by Kresh_Azzo on 10-03-2005 09:57 AM
Dojoden
Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:17 pm
#77
Here's a little fun fact.
Force of Will does not work.
But this works! Anyone in the game can take a certain food (the name excapes me) for incap recovery. This food can be experimented to the point where the incap for the person lasts a second or 2 before they are up again.
So we don't even need it! Could we get a new skill please?
MsNiL
Tue Oct 11, 2005 2:17 am
#78
Thanks for bringing this up finally, ManKind00
If you ask me, why shouldnt Innate Armor be unaffected by ArmorBreak?
7000 battle armor, armorbreak sliced with 75% will still protect 44% of the incoming damage, even when armorbreaked. Not to mention the hitpoint bonus a nice R.I.S. armor provides.
Teras Kasi have 65 innate armor, which represent ~50% damage mitigation. ~50% damage mitigation for a profession who's are designed to be "Very Strong (5)" in terms of damagedealing, is ok. 17,5% becouse of a commonly use state, is not, however.
Innate Armor is a Teras Kasi's primary role. It should be unmatched.