Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: MAKE TKM longer and harder to get, DrArgule please read this
Message Edited by MagicalHAt on 06-27-2004 04:32 PM
Message Edited by MagicalHAt on 06-27-2004 04:36 PM
Nuckman wrote:
FuryoftheStars wrote:
I've been thinking about the whole Master Brawler pre-req thing. I'm not 100% sure if that'd be a good thing to do, at least not as how it is now. Perhaps for the original TK skill set the unarmed tree is all that should be required, but if you want access to the new skill set, then you need Master Brawler. I dunno... just throwing random thoughts out so please don't hurt me for that!
But I'm also in the belief that the accuracy and speed mods are in the wrong skill sets for both melee and ranged professions. I personally think that the majority of the accuracy and speed mods should be in the brawler/marksman skill sets, while the elites give you the new special moves and defenses. It makes sense, after all, a Master Marks is supposed to be very good at hitting stuff... unlike now, but the elites would still be better as they will know more damaging shots and have the defenses to back them up. Aside from that, other profs like commando and BH would actually be able to use their pre-req skills.
NO to do the new skill tree you have to master brawler the and the current TKM trees to start in teh last ttrees it would in a way turn elite-elite
Sorry for the miscommunication... that's what I meant. For the new skill set you need both regular TK and master brawler, but for the old skill set just unarmed IV.
The proposed changes in this thread are mostly in meditation (non-combat ability) and in force sensing (once again, non-combat ability). The one skill tree that is being proposed here for combat actually has very little in it that will make them better.
You are correct in that Fencer is as much of an art as TK is. Fencer and Pikeman both belong because of the wielding of single and pike sabers at the least. Swordsman is the only one that doesn't have a strong tie to anything, but if we're gonna have one (well, 3 in this case) we might as well have the other.
If you guys want better skill sets, then bring it up on your boards. A fellow co-worker and me have actually been discussing this type of stuff recently. We were thinking of an extra skill set for Fencer that would allow duel wield and the same for pistoleer. BHs are discussing having a rank system added just like what Jedi have.
I'm sure that if everyone put their heads together and cooperated we could come up with something for all of the professions. But if we continue knocking eachother upside the heads and fight & bicker, we're never gonna get anywhere and this game will stay in the sorry shape that it currently is in. If we can't cooperate on these types of issues and get something better into the game, then what makes any of you think we can do it for the GCW, etc?
MagicalHAt wrote:
TKA was invented by a fan not by god (lucas).
And this game is different how? It wasn't created by "god" either, it was a bunch of fans.
Message Edited by atone48732 on 06-27-2004 06:10 PM
Get ready for a long post. Sorry about the immensity of it, but I'm trying to catch up and touch base with everyone here. For future reference, all the comments added in this post will be presented in red.
Nuckman wrote:
I still don't see how it has any bearing on Meditation or Force Sensing or how fast or how hard you swing your fists. You've mentioned nothing that makes this logical.
-your kidding right... taht is the reason right there
- Wait. So you're saying that the reason is because it's illogical? Please clear this up.
And all the MOD would be for a second skill tree unless they just put them in the current trees
It's been said before. A second skill tree would make everyone else whine until they got one too, and all it would accomplish is dramatically increasing the nerf cries and whining about Teras Kasi.
-The mods i put in teh second tree are minimal accept for the meditation lines
I wouldnt even care if it was just a +5 to damaage,spd acc, etc etc
You do realize this is JUST AN IDEA taht would oviously have to be tweaked
BUt it is a good foundation
- Yes, I realize it's just an idea, and it would have to be tweaked A LOT. I don't agree with the foundation, because the way the game works right now, we don't deserve to be "Jedi Hunters", at least until Bounty Hunters are fixed.
We have something equivalent to an "adrenaline boost" or a "second wind". It's called Force of Will.
-Did you even read what i typed?
your assesment is way off base........
- How is my assessment off-base? You're saying we need a "second wind in combat" style ability. I'm saying we already have one. Please point out what I've gotten wrong here.
because if we got another +30 everyone would cry...
Better Dodge
Are you kidding? We'd never hear the end of it from Fencers and Pistoleers. Dodge is supposed to be their specific defense.
The key word si IF WE GOT, thats why i oput doddge of 5 or 10 for the whole second tree, but if your telling me a martial artist cant dodge then your out of your mind
- Last time I checked, I'm legally sane, thanks. Our special defense is supposed to be Defensive Acuity or whatnot,but it doesn't work yet. We don't need to take anyone else's spotlight.
Faster Regeneration while Meditating and a Combat PB that isnt very long that doesnt stack with regular PB
This would just turn into another looping macro like Center of Being, giving us extra HAM at virtually no cost.
it would have to cost HAM that goes without saying,,,,,
- Regardless of the HAM cost, in the long run, it's a bonus. You didn't say anything about a timer between uses, which is why I say it'll just turn into another looping macro to give a more-or-less permanent bonus.
though. My idea for the profession is "leave as is and add a dash of armor/buff balance
How does taht add content, exactly it doesnt
- How does adding another skill tree provide content? It just "fixes" it to fit your power-tripped dream. Your method adds just as much "content" as balancing buffs and armor would. Real "content" is stuff like quests and new in-game systems.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Buttersjosh wrote:
Also the Damage mod you gave real sink at master we get like +70 or something like that I just did the mental math and this would be a nerf
I'm repling as I read... so forgive me if someone else has already pointed this out.
The damage mod that he gave in the new skill trees would actually be on top of what's already in the TK skills. So basically, this would be a plus to you guys, not a nerf. It looks to me like it's supposed to go Master brawler, Master TKA, then Master TK (which is where his new skill trees come in). An elite-elite skill set.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
McFlyGuy wrote:
Few minor things is dodge is a fencer/pistoleer skills as you probably know and even if so i'd probably be too little to make a difference.
Correct on that one... should change the +10 to dodge to +10 Defense Acuity like it already is in the previous skill set so it will actually stack.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
AvaLance wrote:
Not only does it not make sense to have to learn all styles of combat just to effectively use your fists, it throws Teras Kasi way above not only all the other elites, but hybrid professions as well (in terms of power).
It doesn't make sense to make a Commando learn to use a rifle, carbine, and pistol just so they can use a flamethrower and rocket launcher either.).
- I don't remember saying that made sense.
It really won't put them that much farther above the other combat profs. They will get a very slight increase in damage and speed, a slight increase in defenses, and a few new "buff" tricks that have their own tradeoffs. Seems balanced to me (on paper at least), although as with all things, it will need tweaking.
- Call me stupid,but the ability to hunt Jedi doesn't seem like a "buff trick." That should be the exclusive realm of Bounty Hunters, as they have no other decent content of their own. This whole proposal doesn't make sense to me, as it will throw the Teras Kasi profession, as I've said before, way above and beyond all the other professions at little to no cost, as many people use Master Brawler in their build anyway.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Pheloneus wrote:
/agree with avalance and on a side note, you chose a profession that was melee. And now you want ranged attacks. I mean come on. Live with what you got, I am a TKM, have been since October of last year. Master Brawler as well, so i have a 20m knockdown and i think even that is reachin. All i have to say is if you want a ranged attack, get Marksman,
/agree, there shouldn't be added ranged to this. Also, you can get the 20m "KD" at Novice brawler, so making it master just means a better chance of landing it.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
Ok look gerogey didnt write the books and as far im concern its only him who matters.
Really all those things the writers right are BS made up malarkey
If i wrote a book and told how yoda never died how luke was killed and how darth vader ate leighs intestines for lunch
would you believe it? No
your believeing tka is real in the star wars universe because you want it to be......
If what he does is all that matters, then this game is pointless to you, so why even bother with fighting it? If you beleive that what happens in this game matters, then everything else must as well.
The trouble is that they do add on to the profession, and Teras Kasi is probably the profession that least needs that kind of add-on. The developers need to devote time to other professions before they go around slapping extra meat on an already-working profession.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
teeth0r wrote:
I don't like any of the ideas posted in this thread. Why make us master brawler first, and then give us even more extra trees to master? That will just turn us into the BH of melees - it takes up all our points, robs us of flexibility and doesn't deliver in the end.
The simple answer is this... if you want flexability, then don't do the extra skill trees. The original skill trees will still have their full potential power as they do now. The new ones will just add a little onto that.
McFlyGuy wrote:
Actually I think you could just put one tree on top of master brawler.
- If this even gets considered and put in, that would be the way I'd do it.
As I said we're much more complex then some fencer or swordsman. Rigorous training, hours of meditation and amazing physical feats. We're not just some martial art students.
- Explain to me how hitting people with your fists is any more complex than hitting people with a sword. The developers considered making us a special class due to the whole Expanded Universe issue, but then decided to put us in as a regular Brawler elite. I'm all for keeping it that way.
If so why would we get the ability to heal wounds and theres much more on some TKA history site that i don't wanna bother looking up.
- We're able to heal wounds because it's a neat ability that the developers gave us to compensate for our solitary damage type (Kinetic) and low armor piercing capabilities.
You wouldn't call a jedi a fencer just because they swing a glowstick. Their grind is very hard and their power reflects that so if we moved up the grind in length not difficulty it would be in line with the power we would recieve.
- Actually, you would call the one-handed saber style a type of fencing. Regardless of the subtle differences, the fighting style is still just a slight variation on standard one-handed weapon fighting. And we don't need our grind moved up in length or upscaled in power, I think we work just fine as is. If you want to hunt Jedi, take some bounty hunting skills.
The jedi use to fear Teras Kasi Masters and thats not really the way it is now.
- Jedi did not "fear" Teras Kasi Masters, per se. Many Jedi actually practiced Teras Kasi (here I get to use your Darth Maul example against you), and they also had the Force and lightsabers going for them. So it wouldn't really make sense to fear a martial arts master, would it? What they "feared", from what I understand, was the Teras Kasi Order as a whole, and that's ENTIRELY different from the martial-arts profession we have now.
Not saying that we ran around maiming jedi left and right and we shouldn't have that power, yet put up a fight and to do that raise the skill point cost.
- Why should we be able to put up a decent fight against someone who is capable of cutting through any material effortlessly, using supernatural energy as a weapon? Not to mention the fact that they practice parts of the same fighting style we do.
Yet in reality the dev's would probably never do this yet it is only my beliefs and hopes.
- Can't really say anything to this. That's your opinion.
Thanks again for hitting the nail on the head.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Nuckman wrote:
Better Dodge
Are you kidding? We'd never hear the end of it from Fencers and Pistoleers. Dodge is supposed to be their specific defense
The key word si IF WE GOT, thats why i oput doddge of 5 or 10 for the whole second tree, but if your telling me a martial artist cant dodge then your out of your mind
Actually, Defense Acuity is supposed to be an increased chance of one of the the 3 types of defense happening... block, counterattack, and dodge. So yeah, TKs can dodge... it's in the makeup of Defense Acuity. So instead of better dodge, you should get better DA. Makes sense, no?
FuryoftheStars wrote:
I've been thinking about the whole Master Brawler pre-req thing. I'm not 100% sure if that'd be a good thing to do, at least not as how it is now. Perhaps for the original TK skill set the unarmed tree is all that should be required, but if you want access to the new skill set, then you need Master Brawler. I dunno... just throwing random thoughts out so please don't hurt me for that!
- Seems like a decent enough proposal to me, assuming the rest of the basic premise was tweaked. A lot.
But I'm also in the belief that the accuracy and speed mods are in the wrong skill sets for both melee and ranged professions. I personally think that the majority of the accuracy and speed mods should be in the brawler/marksman skill sets, while the elites give you the new special moves and defenses. It makes sense,
- Does it? Wouldn't it make more sense that you'd get faster and more accurate by practicing your specific fighting style more in-depth (going up the elite profession)?
after all, a Master Marks is supposed to be very good at hitting stuff... unlike now, but the elites would still be better as they will know more damaging shots and have the defenses to back them up. Aside from that, other profs like commando and BH would actually be able to use their pre-req skills.
- Master Marksmen are good at hitting stuff, yeah. But this game's Marksmen aren't actually trained to be accurate, it's just a title for ranged attackers. And as for the argument that hybrids will be able to do stuff, I think they should get accuracy and speed mods in their own individual trees as a solution (as opposed to making Master Riflemen/Master Marksmen even MORE accurate.)
baw wrote:
"MAKE TKM longer and harder to get, DrArgule please read this"
I think it is an issue of the current PvE system. I bought SWG the day it came out, played for months, and quit. I've just now returned. I talked to my old guildmates and before I knew it I was doctor buffed wearing 80% resist composite and in a big 'ol solo group on Dantooine killing stuff. I'm a master Teras Kasi now. I got more boxes in a single week than I did in my first 3 months. I don't think the profession is too easy, and I don't think it needs to be made anymore difficult.
I think the current techniques allow people to basically powerlevel their way through any elite combat profession. If you're really that bored with TKA that you need a whole 'nother tree to go up, why don't you drop it all and start over. This time, try to make it by killing nothing but Durni's.
Point is, all the combat professions are a lot easier to master now. TKM WAS longer and harder to get, until everybody figured out how to push the limits of PvE and gain as much XP as possible in as little time. You got what you wanted, now everybody and his brother is a TKM or Master Fencer or whatever flavor of the week might have seemed appealing to them. Look at some of the other professions, like Creature Handler. They have a much harder time with XP, because, hey... they can't powerlevel CH through buffs and armor. As a result, I see ten times as many "Mysterious, elite, rareTeras Kasi" than Creature Handlers. Just some food for thought. As much as I'd love to have fifteen different trees of Teras Kasi this and Teras Kasi that, it seems to me that it wouldn't be particularly fair to any of the other thirty-something professions. The distinction of multiple trees should be reserved for Jedi, and PvE ought to be looked at as the culprit when it comes to all these TKM's running around in noob clothes.
Excellent post, and my opinion is that you're absolutely right. PvE, armor, buffs, etc. need a major rebalance.
MagicalHAt wrote:
Why does TKA deserve to be better than say fencer or swordsman or pikeman
- Simply put, it doesn't. Thanks for seeing that.
you all want to be the best and its not going to happen
- Wow. Apparently you aren't wearing blinders!
Why shouldnt fencer require you to master brawler????
- Exactly the point I've been trying to get across. We don't need another pointless prerequisite.
GET OFF the power trip.
- Yes, yes, and yes.
Message Edited by MagicalHAt on 06-27-2004 11:29 AM
atone48732 wrote:
Why don't you stay off of our boards and let us discuss what we want about the TKA profession
geez whinners *sigh*
Please note the fact that I was a Teras Kasi Master from September through May. There are things I want for the profession too.
Eskert wrote:
first off if it werent for the books Correllia,Talus,Rori,Lok and Dathomir would not be in the game
second,the Blueleaf Temple and Exar Kun temple would not be in the game if it weren't for Kevin J Anderson writing the Jedi Academy along with a ton of other POIs and Important places
The bottom line is this game is based on the books more so than the movies.
So before you open your mouth anymore read all 60 something of them
Good point. The books matter, and they're cool from time to time, but they shouldn't be the ultimate guideline.
McFlyGuy wrote:
MagicHat
Northland Alliance
Ahazi citizen since 07/01/03
Master Fencer
MagicHat's Sig. *Cough* Troll
My friggin' goodness! You don't have Teras Kasi Master in your sig! You friggin' troll! Get out of here! Give the guy a chance to argue. Have you even been reading these posts? He's making good points.
Und3rd0g wrote:
I agrre/disagree...
here's why:
dont make TKs master brawler tree...thats waste of sp....instead make TKA do unarmed I-IV then the TKA tree, then they reach somethin like jedi do...Jedi Knight for example is one tree then they move onto jedi Master....TKs could have TKA and then move onto the next tree and start working on TKM with the exp required upd of coarse and more abilities added such as better defense...we at a master level should both deliver unbelieveable dmg to opponents dumb enbough to get close to us and also beable to dodge/block/counter nearly 80% of the hits thrown at us and when actually hit should take little damage i mean we bash things with our hands and feet as well as knees,head,elbows....should we not be tough as coufin nails? Also we should get some type of Gi(Martial Atrs looking outfit) that offers us armor like protection similar to what the jedi are getting because....armor in real life will hinder your movement alot...you would never see a martial arts tournament the combatants wearing armor...sure the samerais wore armor but it was really light...they could fully move in it..i doubt in RL if there was composite armor that you would have fully free movement...
We dont want to get too powerful because SOE will nerf us, but I do agree we do need more to the profession..there shouldnt be TKM/Docs everywhere...Teras Kasi Artist should a profession in itself....to prevent loser dabblers....and those whoi do take the loooong hard road of master...will greatly be rewarded..SOE please give us content here...were not bas-t-rads...dont treat us like em.
Yeah, why not? We should be the undisputed gods of this game without putting forth any effort or time! I mean, Jedi? Pfft, what morons. I mean, who grinds through the equivalent of 88 combat professions? We should be able to roast those guys! Hell, why not make us invincible and give us an "I win button?" Get serious, man!
Stormlord wrote:
Ive been playing since release and Ive only just started the TKA tree. The fact that you can equip the VK as an uncertified weapon and have your dps go up is wrong. Also once you get novice and the VK's do Certify your dammage quadruples. Mine went from 80ish a hit to the 300's. Then with unarmed hit 2 with the first box, you can hit for 800-1200 At this point the rest is trivial as far as the grind goes. The jump from doing 150-220 dammage while bezerk at UA4 to 800-1200 at novice tka is unbalanced if you ask me.
The current buffing system is out of wack too. With Dr and entertainer buffs and a swig of brandy you can spam special moves all day long and never even spend a point of ham. With low end armor like 23%kinetic mambari armor you are near invincable to most pve.
Pretty much, but replace "low-end Mabari" with "serial Composite" when talking about PvP. We seriously don't need to be beefed up.
Teioh wrote:
Teras Kasi should get force powers stronger than a Jedi Master and it should only take one day to level. Maybe limit it to people who are notonly TKA now but make it so they have to have played SWG for a certain amount of time.We don't want everyone to be a super TKA so let's make it so if you've played SWG since the day I registered, you will be able to qualify for the super TKA. I guess my ulitmate goal is to have a super powerful prof but limit it so only a certain group of people (make sure I am in that group)can play it.In short, I want to be incredibly powerful like a Jedi (is supposed to be) but I don't want to work for it like the true jedi have.
Message Edited by Teioh on 06-27-2004 02:26 PM
Perfect summary of this post. You have my applause and undying laughter.
MagicalHAt wrote:
im sorry let me add in there that i am part tka.
The simple fact is you people want to be better than others and its not right and not fair and it will never happen.
Why do tka deserve to be better than fencer? Pikeman? Swordsman?
because some author put you in a book?
Sadly, that seems to be the standing argument.
Ecnalyr1 wrote:
They so won't do that.
Hopefully they won't.
MagicalHAt wrote:
I have tka in my template and i am discussing the TKA proffession.
And you have every right to.
Aexsar wrote:
I agree that it doesn't matter how easy it is to master, its how you use your character. It's obvious that the devs don't want us to spend 6 hours each day for half a yeat to max out our characters. Because it only takes around a month or two max with casual playing for any profession, players can get on with doing the 'neat' stuff. Like completing their faction themepark, raiding dungeons, and dueling fellow guildmembers =).
Besides, one you hit master it's definately not the end. Anybody try bidding on a high-end VK or armor on the forums?
Hooray, a reasonable, mature post.
Nuckman wrote:
Yes but that isnt the point he was making i dont think
FuryoftheStars wrote:
Actually, Defense Acuity is supposed to be an increased chance of one of the the 3 types of defense happening... block, counterattack, and dodge. So yeah, TKs can dodge... it's in the makeup of Defense Acuity. So instead of better dodge, you should get better DA. Makes sense, no?
Nuckman wrote:
Better Dodge
Are you kidding? We'd never hear the end of it from Fencers and Pistoleers. Dodge is supposed to be their specific defense
The key word si IF WE GOT, thats why i oput doddge of 5 or 10 for the whole second tree, but if your telling me a martial artist cant dodge then your out of your mind
Yeah, it's the point I was making, but I think he was responding to your counter-argument.
Nuckman wrote:
NO to do the new skill tree you have to master brawler the and the current TKM trees to start in teh last ttrees it would in a way turn elite-elite
FuryoftheStars wrote:
I've been thinking about the whole Master Brawler pre-req thing. I'm not 100% sure if that'd be a good thing to do, at least not as how it is now. Perhaps for the original TK skill set the unarmed tree is all that should be required, but if you want access to the new skill set, then you need Master Brawler. I dunno... just throwing random thoughts out so please don't hurt me for that!
But I'm also in the belief that the accuracy and speed mods are in the wrong skill sets for both melee and ranged professions. I personally think that the majority of the accuracy and speed mods should be in the brawler/marksman skill sets, while the elites give you the new special moves and defenses. It makes sense, after all, a Master Marks is supposed to be very good at hitting stuff... unlike now, but the elites would still be better as they will know more damaging shots and have the defenses to back them up. Aside from that, other profs like commando and BH would actually be able to use their pre-req skills.
I think that's what he was saying. If you composed your post better, I might be able to understand, but it looks kind of mangled right now.
Nuckman wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
Why does TKA deserve to be better than say fencer or swordsman or pikeman
you all want to be the best and its not going to happen
Why shouldnt fencer require you to master brawler????
GET OFF the power trip.
Message Edited by MagicalHAt on 06-27-2004 11:29 AM
come up with an idea to make them better this is just mine...
- I think the point is that the professions don't NEED to be better. They're all fine as is.
but im not a fencer or a pike or a swordsman Im a TKM
- Good for you. I don't see how that has any bearing on your argument other than you're biased.
they want to come up with somethign thats what your forumns are for
- The professions boards are for discussion of anything related to the profession, so in a way you're right.
McFlyGuy wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
im sorry let me add in there that i am part tka.
The simple fact is you people want to be better than others and its not right and not fair and it will never happen.
Why do tka deserve to be better than fencer? Pikeman? Swordsman?
because some author put you in a book?
We'll we don't see much about fencer, pikeman and swordsman in the books now do we? You pick up a sword, your a fencer! Pick up a pike, your a Pikeman! As atones put it Teras Kasi is an art any dumbass can pick up a sword and start hacking away at stuff.
- Excuse me, but "any dumbass" can start punching someone in a friggin' bar. Get a grip. This profession was designed to be on par with the other brawler elites.
And I doubt you don't know much more about Teras Kasi except how to buff up your template, looking beyond that if you wanna post something here put something constructive and not some idiotic flame.
- He hasn't been idiotically flaming, he's been coming up with some good points. Maybe you should take your own advice and stop being a hypocrite. Here's a tip if you need one:
- Try taking a mature approach to your posts, like "I disagree with you and here's why" instead of "I'm going to insult you until either you agree with me or you give up." If you can't do that, you probably shouldn't get involved in discussions.
Nuckman wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
im sorry let me add in there that i am part tka.
The simple fact is you people want to be better than others and its not right and not fair and it will never happen.
Why do tka deserve to be better than fencer? Pikeman? Swordsman?
because some author put you in a book?
its not that much better the MAIN CHANGES would be in meditation !!!!!!!!!!!!
- It doesn't matter where the changes are going, it matters that your proposed changes would throw us totally over the "uberl33t" bar and into the realm of insatiable powergaming.
im not saying have to +70 unarmed damage the second tree would give you a total of +15 to spd and damage and acc
- No, you're not saying we need uber damage, you're saying we need uber buffs and the ability to hunt Jedi without using the skill points for Investigation. That's still not a good thing for the profession.
MagicalHAt wrote:
it obvious you know nothing of fencing mcflyguy
fencing is an art of rich tradition
http://www.lifeonwheels.org/paralympics/fencing.jpg
http://www.kismeta.com/digrasse.html
http://www.fencing.net/
btw alot of fencing comes from medieval times.
pikeman are in the movies TKA are not dont give me maul was a tka bs either
Pikeman = royal guards
Besides fencers moves closey resemble the light saber ones in the movies and in the game.
TKA was invented by a fan not by god (lucas).
Message Edited by MagicalHAt on 06-27-2004 04:32 PM
Message Edited by MagicalHAt on 06-27-2004 04:36 PM
Now this is a little extreme. The books are very important to the Star Wars Universe, and although a lot (if not most) of them are not officially stamped as canon material by George Lucas, it's information and concepts that should be given consideration. Try to cut down on the flames, too. By the way, the Imperial Royal Guards aren't pikemen, their staves are actually a type of rifle.
Nuckman wrote:
No worries I am here to make things clearer
I thought this was a good idea alot of trollers messen up my stars
grrrrrrrrrr
I'm not trying to be a troll, let me know if I am. As far as I know, I've been reasonably and constructively presenting my opinions and points without flaming or trolling.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
MagicalHAt,
The proposed changes in this thread are mostly in meditation (non-combat ability) and in force sensing (once again, non-combat ability). The one skill tree that is being proposed here for combat actually has very little in it that will make them better.
- Very little that will make them better in COMBAT, yes. But they're effectively stealing the role of Bounty Hunters and lessening their dependence on other classes through the proposed self-buffs.
You are correct in that Fencer is as much of an art as TK is. Fencer and Pikeman both belong because of the wielding of single and pike sabers at the least. Swordsman is the only one that doesn't have a strong tie to anything, but if we're gonna have one (well, 3 in this case) we might as well have the other.
- Heavy Swordsman is tied to the two-handed style of lightsaber wielding. All of the brawler styles present in this game have some sort of real-life equivalent, too. Unarmed combat should be obvious from all the kung-fu movies present. One-handed swordfighting is equivalent to fencing, two-handed is based on medieval swordfighting and Japanese kendo, and quarterstaffs and polearms were developed as anti-cavalry weaponry in the Dark Ages.
If you guys want better skill sets, then bring it up on your boards. A fellow co-worker and me have actually been discussing this type of stuff recently. We were thinking of an extra skill set for Fencer that would allow duel wield and the same for pistoleer. BHs are discussing having a rank system added just like what Jedi have.
- In my opinion, dual-wielding is just a subset of one-handed fighting, ranged or otherwise. It's not any kind of "elite" one-handed fighting, as it's not really better, it's just a different style. As far as I know, the developers already have this kind of thing in the works as an add-on to the existing Fencer and Pistoleer professions. As far as I'm concerned, any non-Jedi and non-GCW ranking system is just stupid. Did the bounty hunters of the movies have a special council or ranking? No. Certainly somse were better than others, but they didn't have an organization devoted to their profession.
I'm sure that if everyone put their heads together and cooperated we could come up with something for all of the professions. But if we continue knocking eachother upside the heads and fight & bicker, we're never gonna get anywhere and this game will stay in the sorry shape that it currently is in. If we can't cooperate on these types of issues and get something better into the game, then what makes any of you think we can do it for the GCW, etc?
- I completely agree that coming up with new ideas for professions is a good thing. And by arguing, we're not getting anywhere. However, if we do any kind of elite-elite planning, we need to do it for all professions at once, or else the whole idea will just be a huge imbalance until it's done. That's not fun for anyone.
atone48732 wrote:
But excuse me don't the books have to go through Lucas arts to get checked over and such?
so therefore TKM is a part of starwars and therfore Darth Maul isa TKM
so there
The books are loosely checked at best. The reason LucasArts "certifies" them is because it slaps their name on it and gets them royalty profits. It's a good business practice, but Lucas has stated that the only "canon" materials are the movies and "certain publications". This game has creative license, too, so it really doesn't matter what's in the books, the stuff that makes it into the game is ultimately in the hands of the developers. Stop trying to use the books as the ultimate guideline by which this game should be structured.
FuryoftheStars wrote:
MagicalHAt wrote:
TKA was invented by a fan not by god (lucas).
And this game is different how? It wasn't created by "god" either, it was a bunch of fans.
Absolutely true.
MagicalHAt wrote:
did i say TKA should be removed from the game? no
I did say TKA should not be as powerfull as you want it to be.
All i stated was that TKA was not in the star wars CANON
If you really think that gerogy himself sits there and reads the books than your dead wrong. He has some lawyer that goes over it with the author at the most.
at the least they just sign a few pieces of paper.
Probably, but that's not grounds to debunk their entire argument. The main issue should be game balance and the state of the game itself. What is or is not official is not relevant. The developers have creative license with this game.
atone48732 wrote:
Look TKM is as much of a part of star wars as blasters and Jedi
- I completely agree. It's just not displayed to the same extent as the rest of the stuff.
I really don't give a damn how you see it.
- This may not be the best way to start your argument.
its obvious that the books and everything are checked over by Lucas arts *sigh* but believe what ya want I don't care..
- If it's so obvious, I hope you wouldn't mind explaining? Call me blind, but I'm not seeing where LucasArts says "We check all the books and certify that they're all nice and peachy and official."
It is really a shame that tka isn't mentioned or seen in the movies.. it would be a lot better concept then most of the crap thats in those damn movies
- Yes, it's a great concept, but the movies aren't "mostly crap." They're the real official deal, until you can prove that Lucas says the books are official.
Message Edited by atone48732 on 06-27-2004 06:10 PM
McFlyGuy wrote:
Well if we all want to complain about things not exist lets do a list off of all the professions not listed in the movies because according to magic the books don't count.
Bioengineer
Carbineer
Combat Medic
Chef
Creature Handler
Fencer
Image Designer
Tailor
Swordsman
The Books might not be solid proof but its about all we got. Remember this isn't real..
The other professions are there because the developers used their creative license to put them there. I'm not saying that anything not official shouldn't be there, but I'm saying that the game shouldn't be strictly handled according to what someone else thinks of as official. The game should be based on how much fun people have, and my opinion is that making Teras Kasi the gods that this topic says they should be would be bad for the game in general and ruin the diversity and fun of all the other professions.
Message Edited by AvaLance on 06-27-2004 08:20 PM
Well its me nuckman and atone against you and magichat so we win. I'm not saying this should be put to the top of the dev's priority list i'm just saying some ideas for the future. This is mainly about meditation. It wouldn't be seriously overpowering us. We've gained the power the next box is about controlling it and using advanced meditation techniques.
http://www.spies.com/Forums/showthread.php?t=9697
There is some information on the Teras Kasi. It may not be in the movies but is somewhat of the guidelines they used to create the professions. Lets see you find something like that for some guy swinging a sword. If you want to think that the books do absoulutely nothing and Darth Maul being a TKA then lets get rid of fencer, swordsman and pikeman. We'll make the game nothing but jedi and bounty hunters. And we can say it follows the movies. By the jedi statement i'm saying the jedi are more complex than just swinging their sabers. I'm sure you don't think all this stuff is a longshot so stop trying to pick out all these replies and post something constructive... For once.
EDIT 2: In response to McFlyGuy, I'm not done replying to everyone yet, and from what I can tell, I've been more constructive than most people in this topic. Although, what I think it boils down to is this:
Me: "I think that Teras Kasi doesn't need to be better than any other brawler elite. That's the way the developers planned it from the start."
You: "I think that Teras Kasi should be better than other brawler elites because of its role in the EU."
And at this point, I don't think there's much chance of us agreeing. You could try coming up with some more reasons or better counterpoints, but that's just my view of the basic argument.
EDIT 3: I intend to change some of the formatting of my above post to make it easier to read and such.
Message Edited by AvaLance on 06-27-2004 08:08 PM
McFlyGuy wrote:
Well for those who had the time to read your flame.
- Like I said, it's not a flame. A flame is something like "MAGICALHAT ISN'T A TKM HE SHOULD GET OUT AND HE'S FLAMING BECAUSE HE ISN'T TKM".
If we're sticking with this profession we're probably not ub3r 1337 d00ds as you formentioned.
- Right. I don't want us to be ub3r l33t h4x0rz who dominate the game.
Nuckmans post isn't cut and dry on how this could possibly happen.
- I realize that.
If you have some some positive ideas on how to fix it please post them.
- I've been posting my positive ideas. I think that this change isn't necessary to make the profession fun and I think that it should be left as it is. Please point out how I'm phrasing this in a negative way.
If you wanna flame get the hell out...- I haven't been flaming. I've been saying I disagree and telling you why. I wish you could do the same, as opposed to saying "Your opinion sucks get out".