CUEmu - Thread Posts

EmporersFist

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:59 am

maigy wrote:

EmporersFist wrote:

I ask that you do not try to argue with me again that temp does not matter and PvP is controlled simply by gear. You are wrong. I have proven again and again that you are wrong. So I will say it one more time. You are wrong.

How did you prove me wrong... you cited no facts only opinions... your argument revolves almost entirely around flaming me.

As for ADKs going for 11 milion show me a link ot an auction in your galaxy that has sold one for 11 million... I have not seen an ADK go for less than 15 million in a long time... either way 11 million is still too much to ahve to pay to play your character... you should be able to pick up a decent crafted weapon just like any other profession can.

And I really cant believe you think gear doesnt matter... ofcourse if you template is master scout/master artisan/master entertainer you will lose in PvP... or if you are playing with any inferior template... but if both sides has a good template and they know what they are doing, it comes down to gearand luckeverytime.

I like to PvP a lot... I picked up TKM/Swords/doc so I could ahve fun PvPing without having to buy any uber loot... I know I wont win a lot but at least I can have fun and it wont cost me a ton in weapons and armor... well I have discovered I was wrong as our weapons cost more than any other professions armor+weapons.

I love TKA a lot so I am not going to drop it... and I another thing that is stupid is if you dont have RotWs there is no level 54 TKAweapons for you.

The point of this threed was to come up with a cool new TKM weapon not weather or not TKMs should get a craftable weapon(although it is obviousthat they should have one, even if only for the simple reason that interdependancy is good)

So I was thinking that perhaps some kind of Force Knucklers might be cool... or Power knucklers for a TKM weapon.

That statement is laughable.

Seeing one go for a certain amount in an auction and seeing them go for a certain amount in the game are TOTALLY different. People who want to make money bring them to the forums, people who want REALLY quick money just sell them in the game for cheap. It is called undercutting. Although you may find it silly, some people acutally do it so people buy their product and not someone else's. Maybe you should learn a bit about economics before continuing to argue with me about how much ADK's go for in my galaxy. You said you haven't seen them go for less than 15 mill? HMMMMMMM?!?! MAYBE ITS BECAUSE ITS A DIFFERENT GALAXY WITH DIFFERENT PRICES AND DIFFERENT LEVELS OF DEMAND.

You just said it. You just said IF THEY HAD GOOD TEMPLATES AND IF THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING. That is exactly what you have been arguing against this entire time. I have been saying that you need a good tempplate and stategy first and weapons aren't as important compared to those.

Too bad. I find it hard to believe that someone could be paying 15$ a month and still not be making enough money to buy RoTW if they really wanted to. They also really could buy the knucklers in the game from a player with RoTW if they really wanted to.

Agreed now please stop trying to debate with me.

Ummmm no they don't need one. Our weapons are powerful enough already. We have our weapons. Buy a weapon repair kit. It isn't hard to get an ADK. Maybe it is if you don't know how and if so that is your problem.

iijin

Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:34 am

#41

I was thinking a sorta knuckler with little lightsabers comming off of it,....call it.....Lightsaber Fist or Fist of Lightsaber, or or fisting saber of light fist saber saber.....

LOL,

now this:

These are probably the most ill-conceived simple minded grouping of sentences I have read. I'll have to break them down. "SWG is no longer about your template.... it is about your gear." I am not sure we are talking about the same game anymore. SWG = Star Wars Galaxies right? If someone is tk/fencer/swords and someone else is swords/doc You can pretty much safely assume that the swords/doc is going to beat the crap out of the tk/fencer/swords regardless of what stims/ruby bliel the tk/fencer/swords has. I know this because I use to be Doc/swords and my friend was tk/fencer/swords and used 1200 stims and ruby bleil and I still beat him. He had RIS armor with 7k protection I have 5k marauder armor. So do not make mention again that it is "all about the gear." This is just ignorance. The next sentence "I will beat people with crappy gear...." Of course you will. Assuming by "crappy" you mean like a vibro axe vs. a PH. I never said gear didn't matter simply that there was not a huge difference between the KK and the NN and you have failed to present any material to convince me otherwise since your "proof" has been proven otherwise by myself (i.e. saying a tk with a KK will beat a tk with a NN regardless of template "as long as lvl is the same"). Strategy and Template are KEY in SWG. Two players with the same template and both TK will have their fight decided on strategy. Someone with a lesser temp but better strategy still runs a great chance of winning (assuming there is not a huge difference in weapons). If the one with the better temp uses up all his action and then the lesser temp kd's him and then goes to town then the greater template will ultimately be defeated if he continues this pattern. Finally you said, "An unarmed Tk will lose to a KK tk." WELL DUH! Obviously there is a ridiculous gap in how much damage you get from bare fists and how much you get from a KK. But unarmed and VK could be decided on strategy and template. Also you said "as long as they are same level." Well obviously the same lvl implies similar temps when fighters are fighting with the same type of weapons (i.e. 1 handed, 2 handed, etc.). However lets say someone was using a KK and their temp was TK/Fencer/Swords and the other temp was unarmed and was Doc/TK I would say the Doc/TK would give them a good run for their money if they didn't outright win in one situation. In the other 2 situations the doc is pretty much screwed but if he uses great strategy he could win. Assuming they used no strategy since you said it is not important and assuming they don't make use of their templates and simply go out and do mindless button-mashing, then yes the TK/Fencer/Swords will win, as they should. If they still used no strategy but made use of their templates then the TK/Doc would probably win based on the fact that the buffs would 1)increase his already larger health bar 2) make him much faster than the TK, and 3) increase his regen rates. Also he could do a little thing called healing himself, making him much much harder to defeat. True he would ttake a long,long time to defeat his opponent but his regen rates would be higher letting him not run out of action, he would be able to heal himself, and his speed would be faster. It would be almost like fighting Necrosis after destroying the powercells in a way. Now if both strategy and temp were employed. The doc would have the advantage on temp but assuming the TK/Fencer/Swords has a brain in his head he will use food to keep his action up, make him harder to hit, and regen his health quicker. He would also use stims and ruby bliel. This would totally negate the Doc's temp since his opponent would then have the healing, the damage, and the defensive advantages on him. The doc would basically be screwed. This is IF the doc was UNARMED mind you. If the doc had the KK and the tk/fencer/swords had the NN but he also had food/stims then I would say that it would be close and come purely down to strategy. The doc would have better healing and his opponent better damage and defense even though he had the better wep. The opponent would also have a greater variety of moves at his disposal.The winner would dependon who employed the better strategy according to what foods to take and moves to use. Assuming they have the EXACT SAME TEMP. Then yes, the weapons/gear would be the determining factor.

one word....WOW!

LOL

ﻹIijin Myriiv | DFR
Phantom Wing | 88th Imperial Fighter Squadron
SkySpear Industries - Talus, Imperial Outpost, Just off the Corellian Run in the Core Worlds Sector
-1966, 2704, contacts: iijin - venya - bladestorm - cyx

EmporersFist

Thu Oct 06, 2005 1:05 pm

#42

one word....WOW!

LOL

I got tired of hearing that gear was more important than temp and stategy......

EmporersFist

Thu Oct 06, 2005 2:25 pm

#43

maigy wrote:

EmporersFist wrote:

one word....WOW!

LOL

I got tired of hearing that gear was more important than temp and stategy......

I really dont see how you can think this way, if gear wasnt so important, then why does it sell for so freaking much. If having a KK doesnt make me much better than going unarmed then why does it sell for 4 million. Who would pay 4 million to not be much better. You say that KKs arent much better than being unarmed, I say you must have some broken KKs.

I also love your argument of well get an ADK that will solve your problems. But I guess since you can buy ADKs for 11 million all day you should have no problem. You should be the richest person in the game, for the simple fact you can jsut buy at 11 mil and then go sell at 22 million this will get you rich really quick. I have now logged on to gorath and done a Vendor search for these 11 million ADKs that are getting sold ingame, I have yet to see any... I also went to the MO on dantooine and stated spamming will buy all ADKs for 11 million... the only responses I got were people laughing their asses off telling me that ADKs go for over 20 million on the server. So since I tried every avenue I can see for getting an ADK cheap on your server... Just curious were are you getting teh 11 million ADKs from.

Message Edited by maigy on 10-06-200503:37 PM

This is why I hate stupid people. They twist your words and can't wrap their mind around a simple addition problem, let alone an arguement. I never said that being unarmed and having a KK were the same thing. You are one giant ignorant person. You said temps and stategy don't matter as much as gear. I say you are wrong. And you are. I have put scenarios through, I have tested in game, and seen my theory prove correct. According to you, when I was a Mdoc/Mswords with a 1200 damage hammer and 8k protection in everything armor, and the SAME food my friend was using who has a similar temp to me, I should have wooped him. He was just using a NN and we used the same food. His heals were weaker. But his temp had me. I even then went and got a 2 handed weapon and a tk crafted weapon with VERY similar damage and stats. He still won. So PLEASE quit trying to argue that weapons are more important than temps and strategybecause you have been wrong for the last week and you continue to be wrong. Quit making yourself look stupid please.

ROFL you are pathetic. Dude get a life. You created a character to check to try to PROVE I was wrong? PEOPLE STAND IN THEED ALL THE TIME SPAMMING THAT THEY ARE SELLING (or some say buying) for 11mill. Depends when you are on and what time spammers get on. Anyways...who gives a d@mn. You won't buy them anyways so what do you care. This is just some random tangent you won't stop going in until you "prove me wrong" and you'll be darned if you don't. Grow up. Not only do they spam in theed I also know some whom I could get them from for under 10mill if I wanted to, but that isn't important. You REALLY have some issues and need to grow up and cut the childish bullcrap k? thx.

maigy

Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:26 pm

#44

EmporersFist wrote:

maigy wrote:

EmporersFist wrote:

one word....WOW!

LOL

I got tired of hearing that gear was more important than temp and stategy......

I really dont see how you can think this way, if gear wasnt so important, then why does it sell for so freaking much. If having a KK doesnt make me much better than going unarmed then why does it sell for 4 million. Who would pay 4 million to not be much better. You say that KKs arent much better than being unarmed, I say you must have some broken KKs.

I also love your argument of well get an ADK that will solve your problems. But I guess since you can buy ADKs for 11 million all day you should have no problem. You should be the richest person in the game, for the simple fact you can jsut buy at 11 mil and then go sell at 22 million this will get you rich really quick. I have now logged on to gorath and done a Vendor search for these 11 million ADKs that are getting sold ingame, I have yet to see any... I also went to the MO on dantooine and stated spamming will buy all ADKs for 11 million... the only responses I got were people laughing their asses off telling me that ADKs go for over 20 million on the server. So since I tried every avenue I can see for getting an ADK cheap on your server... Just curious were are you getting teh 11 million ADKs from.

Message Edited by maigy on 10-06-200503:37 PM

This is why I hate stupid people. They twist your words and can't wrap their mind around a simple addition problem, let alone an arguement. I never said that being unarmed and having a KK were the same thing. You are one giant ignorant person. You said temps and stategy don't matter as much as gear. I say you are wrong. And you are. I have put scenarios through, I have tested in game, and seen my theory prove correct. According to you, when I was a Mdoc/Mswords with a 1200 damage hammer and 8k protection in everything armor, and the SAME food my friend was using who has a similar temp to me, I should have wooped him. He was just using a NN and we used the same food. His heals were weaker. But his temp had me. I even then went and got a 2 handed weapon and a tk crafted weapon with VERY similar damage and stats. He still won. So PLEASE quit trying to argue that weapons are more important than temps and strategybecause you have been wrong for the last week and you continue to be wrong. Quit making yourself look stupid please.

ROFL you are pathetic. Dude get a life. You created a character to check to try to PROVE I was wrong? PEOPLE STAND IN THEED ALL THE TIME SPAMMING THAT THEY ARE SELLING (or some say buying) for 11mill. Depends when you are on and what time spammers get on. Anyways...who gives a d@mn. You won't buy them anyways so what do you care. This is just some random tangent you won't stop going in until you "prove me wrong" and you'll be darned if you don't. Grow up. Not only do they spam in theed I also know some whom I could get them from for under 10mill if I wanted to, but that isn't important. You REALLY have some issues and need to grow up and cut the childish bullcrap k? thx.

Ok in this example you say you and your freind had a very similar template... although you could heal better than him, and you had better armor than him and you had better weapons than him., butyou had the same food and everything else,but he kicked your butt with NNs because he had a better strategy... Yes if your strategy involves /prone then yes you may lose.

Tell me who is sellingADKs on gorath for 11 million or less, and yes I will buy them... I have over 100 million credits on Radiant, I know afew people on Gorath that I think I might be able to trust to do a credit transfer. I actually know one person in RL that plays on gorath, not sure if he has the money though. I wasn't able to find anyone on gorath willing to do this.

Have I called you ignorant, have I flamed you... your entire argument revolves around calling me names... and you tell me I need to grow up.

My entire argument revolves around trying to present facts.

Fact there is no craftableweapon for TKM

Fact there is a craftable cl 54weapon for every other type of weapon

Fact It would be good for interdendancy to have a craftable TKM weapon

Fact loot weapons wear out and ADKs are really hard to get... you claim they are easy though.

My question is why do you think it would be so bad for the game if there were a craftable TKM weapon?

Offer all auction winnings to one of my vendors at my store.
Maigrey Master Weaponsmith, Master Droid Engineer, Master Merchant

Zayra Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, CM 4000

Maigrey's Weapons Coronet(radiant) WP -251, -5676

EmporersFist

Thu Oct 06, 2005 10:04 pm

#45

maigy wrote:

EmporersFist wrote:

maigy wrote:

EmporersFist wrote:

one word....WOW!

LOL

I got tired of hearing that gear was more important than temp and stategy......

I really dont see how you can think this way, if gear wasnt so important, then why does it sell for so freaking much. If having a KK doesnt make me much better than going unarmed then why does it sell for 4 million. Who would pay 4 million to not be much better. You say that KKs arent much better than being unarmed, I say you must have some broken KKs.

I also love your argument of well get an ADK that will solve your problems. But I guess since you can buy ADKs for 11 million all day you should have no problem. You should be the richest person in the game, for the simple fact you can jsut buy at 11 mil and then go sell at 22 million this will get you rich really quick. I have now logged on to gorath and done a Vendor search for these 11 million ADKs that are getting sold ingame, I have yet to see any... I also went to the MO on dantooine and stated spamming will buy all ADKs for 11 million... the only responses I got were people laughing their asses off telling me that ADKs go for over 20 million on the server. So since I tried every avenue I can see for getting an ADK cheap on your server... Just curious were are you getting teh 11 million ADKs from.

Message Edited by maigy on 10-06-200503:37 PM

This is why I hate stupid people. They twist your words and can't wrap their mind around a simple addition problem, let alone an arguement. I never said that being unarmed and having a KK were the same thing. You are one giant ignorant person. You said temps and stategy don't matter as much as gear. I say you are wrong. And you are. I have put scenarios through, I have tested in game, and seen my theory prove correct. According to you, when I was a Mdoc/Mswords with a 1200 damage hammer and 8k protection in everything armor, and the SAME food my friend was using who has a similar temp to me, I should have wooped him. He was just using a NN and we used the same food. His heals were weaker. But his temp had me. I even then went and got a 2 handed weapon and a tk crafted weapon with VERY similar damage and stats. He still won. So PLEASE quit trying to argue that weapons are more important than temps and strategybecause you have been wrong for the last week and you continue to be wrong. Quit making yourself look stupid please.

ROFL you are pathetic. Dude get a life. You created a character to check to try to PROVE I was wrong? PEOPLE STAND IN THEED ALL THE TIME SPAMMING THAT THEY ARE SELLING (or some say buying) for 11mill. Depends when you are on and what time spammers get on. Anyways...who gives a d@mn. You won't buy them anyways so what do you care. This is just some random tangent you won't stop going in until you "prove me wrong" and you'll be darned if you don't. Grow up. Not only do they spam in theed I also know some whom I could get them from for under 10mill if I wanted to, but that isn't important. You REALLY have some issues and need to grow up and cut the childish bullcrap k? thx.

Ok in this example you say you and your freind had a very similar template... although you could heal better than him, and you had better armor than him and you had better weapons than him., butyou had the same food and everything else,but he kicked your butt with NNs because he had a better strategy... Yes if your strategy involves /prone then yes you may lose.

Tell me who is sellingADKs on gorath for 11 million or less, and yes I will buy them... I have over 100 million credits on Radiant, I know afew people on Gorath that I think I might be able to trust to do a credit transfer. I actually know one person in RL that plays on gorath, not sure if he has the money though. I wasn't able to find anyone on gorath willing to do this.

Have I called you ignorant, have I flamed you... your entire argument revolves around calling me names... and you tell me I need to grow up.Fact.

My entire argument revolves around trying to present facts. Fact

Fact there is no craftableweapon for TKM True

Fact there is a craftable cl 54weapon for every other type of weapon True

Fact It would be good for interdendancy to have a craftable TKM weapon Opinion..

Fact loot weapons wear out and ADKs are really hard to get Opinion.... you claim they are easy though.Fact.

My question is why do you think it would be so bad for the game if there were a craftable TKM weapon?

Never said it would be bad for the game we simply DO NOT NEED ONE. Our loot weapons are much more powerful as compared to the loot weapons of other melee classes. I never see any swordsman running around with the Necrosis loot weapon because it sucks. We lucked out with our loot weapons. The Craftable TKM weapon would have to be balanced so it wasn't more powerful than the weapons we have now. This would make it useless if you had the quest weapons. If they were made more powerful it would not only make doing the quests not worth while, but it would also make it unfair to other professions because our preofession would be even more powerful than it is now. We don't need a craftable TKM weapon. Have you stopped to think how much other professions have to spend on armor while I could walk around naked and still be just as powerful? Maybe, JUST MAYBE, the developers took this into consideration and DELIBERATELY left out a craftable TKM weapon so that we would have to spend the money we WOULD HAVE SPENT on armor, on new knucklers, or an ADK. You think that could be a reason? To make things fair and balanced as they are "suppose to be" since the CU. So TKM's could not run around being able to save more money simply because they don't have to spend money on armor?

This proves you don't know jack about what you are talking about. Just because someone has better armor or weapons does not mean they will win with similar templates. It takes a certain amount of strategy which the devs said WOULD BE A DRIVING PART of the CU. Maybe in the days of pre-cu whatever equipment you had would matter when you could spam an attack and sit back while you performed unarmed hit 3 20 times in a rowfollowed by some head hits. 1) he did not win simply because of strategy although that was part of it, he won because his temp was better. For instance. He had CoB which gives 500 to defense. I had CoB which lasted half as long and only added 250 to defense. He also had powerboost adding LOTS of health. Although I should have been able to outdamage him I could not due to his superior defense due to his temp. I was doing slighty higher damage at a much slower speed since swordsmans attack slow. My superior armor was also negated by his CoB. Although my healing was better he was dealing out damage so fast that I ended up using all my mind before him. This is know as strategy. All previous to this sentence are FACTS that you say are "absent" from all my arguements. Now time for the flame because your arguement was ridiculous. If my strategy involved /prone? Maybe you should /shut mouth. I have never EVER had to go through so much detail in a point I have made. Everytime a make one where a normal person would be like "oh yea" because this this and this. You say I am merely making opinions. TRUST ME they are not opinions. You say I flame you. Yes its because you consistently argue no matter HOW WRONG YOU ARE. You decided to take it to such an EXTREME level of trying to prove me wrong you made a character on Gorath to see how much ADK's are in game. You have MAJOR issues. Enough said.

First of all this haslittle relevance whatsoever to do with our discussion. ADK's will have to be bought if one does not want to spring for a WHOLE new weapon. Second of all I am not stupid enough to reveal my source. This means more people find out who to get 11mill adk's from. They are there in the bazaar terminals if you get on at the right time. I saw one for 13mill earlier today. Before I logged I checked to see if it was still there...and of course...it was gone. Thats is what people want to do when they want to sell something fast and get money instantly...they sell it low. They do this to undercut people so their stuff sells before someone else's. They could price it equal to what other people price it at, but it would mean a consumer would have no more of a reason to purchase their item as opposed to their competitor's. It also means there would undoubtedly be a delay in between them putting the item up for sale, and selling their item. The purchaser would basically be choosing them at random. People often sell stuff at low prices so they sell fast when they want something else that runs a risk of being bought by someone else. Some people sell rare items for less so that they can get an ADK more quickly for example, where as some people with ADK's sell them low so they get quick cash for a rare item that runs a risk of being sold to someone else. Or sometimes they simply trade.

Your arguments revolve mainly around opinion, except for the facts that do not support your case. My arguement revolves around facts and critical thinking, and cause and effect thinking.

Fact- Template is more important than gear in PvP situations. Proof: My friend and I dueld. I had better healing. I had better armor. I had a more powerful weapon. He beat me because of the speed his temp gave him, and the skills his temp gave him. He also beat me based on how he employed these skills. My weapon although more powerful, did not matter. His skills because of his temp enabled him to limit the damage output I had on him. He was able to do more damage, and make me use more mind because of the speed in which he got attacks in. Temp and strategy are more important than gear in PvP. I can garauntee I could beat someone who was weilding the KK while I was unarmed if they had no med skills. And we were only using skills our templates gave us, and no other outside foods, and buffs, and stims, which would fall into strategy.

Fact- Making a TKM craftable weapon would be unfair to all other combat classes in the game. They would have to spend the amount of money on multiple suits of armor while we had to buy no armor, and yet could still get weapons as cheap as theirs. For this reason there is no craftable TKM weapon. TKM's spend their money on KK's and NN's and ADK's instead of armor. If you do not think this is fair then consider this. A GOOD full sut of armor offering 6k protection in everything which is what TK's have can be sold for roughly one mill. Lets say you have to buy a new KK every 4-5 months if you used it to almost complete destruction. Sure you have to buy repair kits for your weapons, but so do the other combat classes. Now you have to buy a completely new KK after 4 months. Any other combat class that has to wear armor and keep it in good condition, has spent MORE than 4 mill in suits of armor/repair tools simply because he has to wear armor. They should, in turn, be able to buy a weapon at a MUCH cheaper price, otherwise they end up spending 8mill over 4 months. A tk does not have to spend money on new armor/fixing old armor. Therefore it is only fair that they pay somehow. It is by having to pay more for weapons that the system is balanced out.

I hope this finally helps to clear up why there SHOULD NOT BE a craftable TKM weapon and why temp and strategy are more important to have than uber gear in PvP.

maigy

Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:52 am

#46

EmporersFist wrote:

Never said it would be bad for the game we simply DO NOT NEED ONE. Our loot weapons are much more powerful as compared to the loot weapons of other melee classes. I never see any swordsman running around with the Necrosis loot weapon because it sucks. We lucked out with our loot weapons. The Craftable TKM weapon would have to be balanced so it wasn't more powerful than the weapons we have now. This would make it useless if you had the quest weapons. If they were made more powerful it would not only make doing the quests not worth while, but it would also make it unfair to other professions because our preofession would be even more powerful than it is now. We don't need a craftable TKM weapon. Have you stopped to think how much other professions have to spend on armor while I could walk around naked and still be just as powerful? Maybe, JUST MAYBE, the developers took this into consideration and DELIBERATELY left out a craftable TKM weapon so that we would have to spend the money we WOULD HAVE SPENT on armor, on new knucklers, or an ADK. You think that could be a reason? To make things fair and balanced as they are "suppose to be" since the CU. So TKM's could not run around being able to save more money simply because they don't have to spend money on armor?

You decided to take it to such an EXTREME level of trying to prove me wrong you made a character on Gorath to see how much ADK's are in game. You have MAJOR issues. Enough said.

First of all this haslittle relevance whatsoever to do with our discussion. ADK's will have to be bought if one does not want to spring for a WHOLE new weapon. Second of all I am not stupid enough to reveal my source. This means more people find out who to get 11mill adk's from. They are there in the bazaar terminals if you get on at the right time. I saw one for 13mill earlier today. Before I logged I checked to see if it was still there...and of course...it was gone. Thats is what people want to do when they want to sell something fast and get money instantly...they sell it low. They do this to undercut people so their stuff sells before someone else's. They could price it equal to what other people price it at, but it would mean a consumer would have no more of a reason to purchase their item as opposed to their competitor's. It also means there would undoubtedly be a delay in between them putting the item up for sale, and selling their item. The purchaser would basically be choosing them at random. People often sell stuff at low prices so they sell fast when they want something else that runs a risk of being bought by someone else. Some people sell rare items for less so that they can get an ADK more quickly for example, where as some people with ADK's sell them low so they get quick cash for a rare item that runs a risk of being sold to someone else. Or sometimes they simply trade.

Your arguments revolve mainly around opinion, except for the facts that do not support your case. My arguement revolves around facts and critical thinking, and cause and effect thinking.

Fact- Template is more important than gear in PvP situations. Proof: My friend and I dueld. I had better healing. I had better armor. I had a more powerful weapon. He beat me because of the speed his temp gave him, and the skills his temp gave him. He also beat me based on how he employed these skills. My weapon although more powerful, did not matter. His skills because of his temp enabled him to limit the damage output I had on him. He was able to do more damage, and make me use more mind because of the speed in which he got attacks in. Temp and strategy are more important than gear in PvP. I can garauntee I could beat someone who was weilding the KK while I was unarmed if they had no med skills. And we were only using skills our templates gave us, and no other outside foods, and buffs, and stims, which would fall into strategy.

Fact- Making a TKM craftable weapon would be unfair to all other combat classes in the game. They would have to spend the amount of money on multiple suits of armor while we had to buy no armor, and yet could still get weapons as cheap as theirs. For this reason there is no craftable TKM weapon. TKM's spend their money on KK's and NN's and ADK's instead of armor. If you do not think this is fair then consider this. A GOOD full sut of armor offering 6k protection in everything which is what TK's have can be sold for roughly one mill. Lets say you have to buy a new KK every 4-5 months if you used it to almost complete destruction. Sure you have to buy repair kits for your weapons, but so do the other combat classes. Now you have to buy a completely new KK after 4 months. Any other combat class that has to wear armor and keep it in good condition, has spent MORE than 4 mill in suits of armor/repair tools simply because he has to wear armor. They should, in turn, be able to buy a weapon at a MUCH cheaper price, otherwise they end up spending 8mill over 4 months. A tk does not have to spend money on new armor/fixing old armor. Therefore it is only fair that they pay somehow. It is by having to pay more for weapons that the system is balanced out.

I hope this finally helps to clear up why there SHOULD NOT BE a craftable TKM weapon and why temp and strategy are more important to have than uber gear in PvP.

Actually I think the only reason our loot weapons seem better than other profession's loot weapons is because we have no craftable CL 54 weapons. I think if we did it would be the same situation. Best crafted weapons would be better than the best looted weapons, and the looted weapons would be better than good crafted weapons. I think this would be a good thing, because I think that players should make all the ebst stuff in the game, actually I think players should be able to make everything in the game, not just the best stuff.

And yes I did prove you wrong I knew you were lying, but the reason I did it was 2 fold... if you had been telling the truth this would have been a great oppurtunity to make a lot of fast credits. The secondary reason was to prove you wrong. Yes you are wrong, now you keep back tracking on it, tot he point were youhave some made up secret ADK dealer that will only sell to you and only for 11 million.

Yes, this is what I have been looking for, you finally make a good point that supports the argument not to have craftable TKM weapons, it doesn't hol water but it is a good point. The reason that it doesnt hold water is because of the varying economies I guess. On my server I can get a suit of armor with 5.5k-6k resists for 200k, I can buy it all day at 500k, you claim that on gorath this suit sells for 1 million. I will do the rundown on the numbers with both suits, and I will try to keep an open-mind.

I wish my KKs would last me 4-5 months as you claim, I used mine sparingly and they are down about 300 condition max after 3 weeks of use.

In my experience 1 suit lasts me about 4 weeks and 1 weapon lasts me about 2 weeks(I guess I play more than you, since my numbers differ from you), So for a rifleman he would go through2 Good ALRs(non-enhanced, just good) 50k each and 1 suit of armor each month... that equals 1.1 million on your server and 300k-600k on mine, meanwhile the TKM will go through 2 KK/NNs if he were to use them as much as I do. this will cost 2-8 million on my server, so that is about 5 million per month. It is much more expensive to be a TKM than a non-TKM. Maybe I just go through weapons much faster than most people I dunno, but I can easily go through a pair of KKs in a week of heavy use.

But the point about not having craftable TKM weapons, really has nothing to do with being fair to other players. If a blasterfist was level 54 the high end blasterfists wouldbe selling for 10 million+, They would be more expensive than just about any ALR. I dont think the Devs made it this way, because they wanted to make the TKMs have to pay more for their weapons. I think they did it this way because, of a simlpe over-sight. I think they fully intended to amek the Blacksun Razorfist be craftable. TKMs had a craftable CL 54 weapon on TC during the CU Beta, but for some reason it didn't make it live. I think they screwed up somewhere. I also think there is a good chance it will be fixed soon, but really I don't know.

Offer all auction winnings to one of my vendors at my store.
Maigrey Master Weaponsmith, Master Droid Engineer, Master Merchant

Zayra Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, CM 4000

Maigrey's Weapons Coronet(radiant) WP -251, -5676

Stomis

Sat Oct 08, 2005 8:54 pm

#47

I think your an idiot. We need a good craftable Night Blade styled weapon that we can go and loot componants for so its not ever TK having the same weapon and dmg.

*edited by admin*

KylaEri

Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:07 pm

#48

I want a ring of protection +2 and a cloak of invisibility and boots of speed, then i'll cast a web spell on the jedi and my contingency magic missile spell will destroy them. MWAHHHA HAHAHHAH HAHAH.

Kyla Eri

YCS

Naritus Server

EmporersFist

Sun Oct 09, 2005 7:01 pm

#49

Looting components for a new TK weapon would be good. The weapons would still be high priced and keep the amount of money each combat professions spend. I am saying though that if there were a weapon that could be simply mass produced by the weaponsmiths, no matter how good it is, the price would not be what the prices are for the KK and the NN. It would most likely fall into the range of 200k-300k if it was the best available weapon. This would be unfair because like I said even if armor only went for 50k the down and dirty is that every other combat profession would have to pay the 200-300k for the best weapon their profession has AND the suit of armor. People will complain. We'd risk losing IA or something like that. It is the way it is because of all the "balancing" they were doing with the CU. It actually just made more trouble which resulted in massive nerfs and restyling everything. This is one issue that will probably end up by the Devs taking our innate armor and saying we need to buy armor (thanks to the people complaining about armor break). They will do this because it is simpler than giving us a bonus to AB resist which they wouldn't do anyways cause the other combat professions would undoubtedly complain. Then after they make us buy our own armor we will be the ones spending more money for our weapons AND having to buy armor because they will forget to introduce a craftable MTK weapon. What they would have to do to introduce craftable MTK weapon is nerf the current loot knucklers and set the stats of the best ones around the damage the KK does probably. They will also have make us wear armor again/ make some crappy robes we have to wear so every TK is running around with the same crap on.

For review:

***Right now TKs are paying about 4 mill for weapons. They last about 4 months or at least mine has and I have been doing intense grinding/pvping. This is all TK's need in order to function (knuckler). Other combat professions are paying about 4 mill for their weapons+armor over about 4 months or at least I did when I was a Mdoc/Swords. It is balanced atm.

***Craftable MTK weapon would still make other professions pay more for their necessities than we would for ours leading to another period of intense whining/crying from people who don't want to take advantage of something they could use.

***If they ever introduced a craftable MTK weapon the price would fall because it is able to be mass produced. This would spark the crying that TK's don't have to pay as much. They would then also introduce a set of robes or make us wear armor again so that the spending would be balanced. It would also provide them with an easy solution to the AB debate which is a current hot issue.

***They would also more than likely nerf the KK and the NN and set the new craftable knuckler stats somewhere around the KK to prevent people whining about how "TK's do too much damage now." Doing so would make the KK and the NN worthless.

***If they ever did make a craftable TKM weapon it would more than likely end up with lower stats than the KK and the NN. It would be rendered worthless to any TKM. Assuming it was a lvl 56 weapon and not exclusive to TK, it would only benifit those looking to dabble in TK as a PART of their temp. They shouldn't add something that would only benifit the dabblers, because they are not a real part of the profession.

***It seems as though TKs are complaining of a lack of variety in their knucklers which has ALWAYS been a problem. I remember the days of EVERY tk buying the SAME knuckler from the SAME vendor. It also seems as though TKs are complaining because they are unable to get the best knuckler over and over and must pay 4 mill for replacements because once their condition runs out they are screwed. Some also claim that ADK's are out of reach as far as price goes although I strongly disagree (and honest to god I get ADK's for 11 mill... how in the hell do you think I make money and don't really care what price knucklers are at).

***These seem to be all the issues/problems/complaints we are faced with in this craftable MTK weapon debate.

***I am tired of arguing why there shouldn't be a craftable TKM weapon and finally got around to thinking up a solution instead of fighting with maigy because obviously we are gonna have to come to a compromise

***Said compromise is pointless though since we have no way of bringing the Devs to look at this/altering the game ourselves (we'll try not to think about it for a second) but I did manage to come up with the following anyways.....

********************Solution********************

There is a solution I believe would work and have not discovered anything (as of yet) that would disrupt this new system of balance. Keep in mind it is only an idea. There is already an element of a different profession.

I think that if every TK made his/her own weapon. The jedi use this system and it seems to be working and keeping them spending as much money as the other combat proffessions. They need special loots that alter the damage/speed of their lightsaber. They can loot them themselves however normally end up paying to get loots they can not come across. I think that if we implemented a similar system for TK it would fix the issues of not having a craftable TKM weapon and complaints about the lack of variety among TKs.

There would be a different set of loots for TK to get than what the jedi use for their sabers. We would loot items that, although different, did everything the jedi ls loots do. We would have our item we needed for better speed, etc. After collecting the components we were going to use to make our weapon we could make one, the higher the level TK you get, the more variety you have in what kind of weapon you can make. The weapon's appearance should not alter the damage, only the components used. This would keep people from using the same thing, and let people use what they liked more. It would also keep TK's spending on an even scale with the rest of the combat classes because there is no doubt that the components' price would keep the Tk spending level even with the other classes.

The variety would be insane among TKs. I also propose that they add a few more different looking weapons we could make. They should allow us to make a "set of knucklers." No added damage beyond what the components produce, no extra speed either.The appearance though would be a knuckler on each hand. We could also keep the 1 hand knuckler going with all the knucklers. I suggest also that "leg braces" be added since we also kick a lot too. It could not be used at the same time as a knuckler, however your weapons would simply be on your shins instead. This would open a world for incredible variety in TK. Again, KEEP IN MIND that these suggested appearances would be ONLY THAT. They WOULD NOT affect damage or speed. The only thing that would alter these are the components looted/bought and used in the making of said weapon. In short, the knuckler appearances are "cosmetic only." One thing that should change though is that people should have to unlock (through the boxes) components they are able to use in making a weapon. This would keep dabblers from running around with UBER knucklers. Special components that can be used should be set in place of the KK and the NN that we currently recieve to make a knuckler.

Problems this fixes/Issues addressed:

***People who have crappy knucklers have crappy knucklers because they made them with their crappy components. Which is no one's fault but their own.

***If the condition of the weapon gets low then you can make yourself another Knuckler.

***There will be a more diverse population of TKs instead of everyone having the same stupid knuckler.

***Spending amount would remain for the most part, unchanged, and would not force people to spend money to be competitive in pvp/pve if they did not wish to, or force them to spend millions if their knuckler condition was low. People could wait and loot their own, or just buy the needed component.

***It would provide variety in each individual TK in terms of damage, speed, and appearance. Not everyone would have an Uber knuckler either without spending a little cash or putting the man hours into finding the best components.

***Certainly one would be hard pressed to find a TK with the exact same stats on their weapon, and the exact same cosmetic appearance of their weapon.

***The KK and the NN would no longer be looted as knucklers, but instead would become special components one could loot to put into your weapon.

********************Problem********************

Out of all this one problem arises: those who have already put an ADK on one of their knucklers.

********************Solution********************

They could simply convert them into whichever type of knuckler they wished which would be ADKd and have the component the KK or NN turns into, attached. This is the best solution I can come up with atm, however if someone else thinks of one, or if I think of one later I will edit this message. If they don't like the changes.... tough, I guess

. The bad thing is that it will probably be this issue that will keep this idea from going any further.

Ok now give me some feedback on the idea and if it is liked enough then I'll make a new post and a new thread for this idea so more people will see it since normal people would stop reading halfway through maigy and my bullsh*t arguing. Oh, one more thing. I would like to thank Stomis for making the comment he did which sparked my imagination.

maigy

Sun Oct 09, 2005 9:25 pm

#50

EmporersFist wrote:

wrote a really long post that I agreed with a lot of

A few things I want to mention.

1) If they were to make a level 54 TKM weapon it would be certed at TKM just like all other crafteble level 54 meleeweapons, they get certed at Master, so it wouldn't be used by dabblers.

2) Using the blaster fist as an example. If they made the blasterfist level 54 and certed at master it would do slightly less damage than the NNs for a really goodnon-enhanced version and would sell for 10k-60k depending onserver and quality. the enhanced ones would take 1 nyms vibro blade unit and 4 enhanced power cells to make... they would be much better than the KKs and would sell for 5 million-10 million I would guess.

3) I really hate the idea of giving another profession the ability to make their own weapons, Jedi already make there own weapons, and rangers are going to be making their own mines, currently we have profession that specializes in doing nothing but making weapons, I think they should get the ability.

4) I am still going to stick to my guns that ADKs are out of the price range of 90% of players, and that shouldnt mean that 90% of players shouldnt be able to be effective at TKM, when they can easily be effective in any other profession without an ADK. I know very few players that have over 1 million credits, granted they are becoming more and more common, but most players cant afford a high end weapon, and there is no low-end TKM weapon.

Offer all auction winnings to one of my vendors at my store.
Maigrey Master Weaponsmith, Master Droid Engineer, Master Merchant

Zayra Master Pistoleer, Master Smuggler, CM 4000

Maigrey's Weapons Coronet(radiant) WP -251, -5676

EmporersFist

Mon Oct 10, 2005 5:40 am

#51

maigy wrote:

EmporersFist wrote:

wrote a really long post that I agreed with a lot of

A few things I want to mention.

1) If they were to make a level 54 TKM weapon it would be certed at TKM just like all other crafteble level 54 meleeweapons, they get certed at Master, so it wouldn't be used by dabblers.

2) Using the blaster fist as an example. If they made the blasterfist level 54 and certed at master it would do slightly less damage than the NNs for a really goodnon-enhanced version and would sell for 10k-60k depending onserver and quality. the enhanced ones would take 1 nyms vibro blade unit and 4 enhanced power cells to make... they would be much better than the KKs and would sell for 5 million-10 million I would guess.

3) I really hate the idea of giving another profession the ability to make their own weapons, Jedi already make there own weapons, and rangers are going to be making their own mines, currently we have profession that specializes in doing nothing but making weapons, I think they should get the ability.

4) I am still going to stick to my guns that ADKs are out of the price range of 90% of players, and that shouldnt mean that 90% of players shouldnt be able to be effective at TKM, when they can easily be effective in any other profession without an ADK. I know very few players that have over 1 million credits, granted they are becoming more and more common, but most players cant afford a high end weapon, and there is no low-end TKM weapon.

I still don't think something that could be mass produced such as a TKM knuckler made by wsmiths could get to be that high priced. And even if it did somehow manage to get to that price...the fact that it did more damage than a KK would be something other professions would whine about.

I for one wouldn't mind making my own weapons, but you are right and I wouldn't want to cut weaponsmiths out of the whole picture. Perhaps if we made it to where wep smiths could make components for our weapons, then TK's would actually be throwing some money the way of the wep smith instead of just buying loots and rewards like they are now. It could kind of be like shipwright and their component making for ships. Although some loots are REALLY REALLY good, the shipwright still makes loads of money if he/she can produce a good component. Although it isn't the most ideal for the weaponsmiths (TK's making their own weapon), it is certainly a better system than what we have now. So is there anything you can think of that would cause problems, if TKs could loot good components, but components could also be made by weaponsmiths? There could be great loots (like the chances you have of looting a good component in space), however the crafted components can be just as good and sometimes better. This would keep the high end items high priced, bring smiths back into the system, and still not force people to spend millions to be an effective TK. The way it would work is....lets say we need to loot a specific item off of a kimo for our weapon. We could loot something a certain % of the time, and when we DO loot it, it has a quality system such as the one by jedi components. The better the quality, the more rare it is. Conversely weaponsmiths would be able to make a component just as good, and in some cases where the right items are used in making the component, better. The weaponsmith would need to get some REALLY good resources though to make the uber components. This would keep the prices of these components up making TK's still spend as much money as players who also need armor in addition to a weapon. This (from my viewpoint) not only fixes the problems mentioned in my previous post, but insteads includes wepsmiths instead of cutting them out for good (although they are basically already cut out the current way they have the game set up).

maigy

Mon Oct 10, 2005 6:07 am

#52

EmporersFist wrote:

maigy wrote:

2) Using the blaster fist as an example. If they made the blasterfist level 54 and certed at master it would do slightly less damage than the NNs for a really goodnon-enhanced version and would sell for 10k-60k depending onserver and quality. the enhanced ones would take 1 nyms vibro blade unit and 4 enhanced power cells to make... they would be much better than the KKs and would sell for 5 million-10 million I would guess.

I still don't think something that could be mass produced such as a TKM knuckler made by wsmiths could get to be that high priced. And even if it did somehow manage to get to that price...the fact that it did more damage than a KK would be something other professions would whine about.

The thing aboutt eh highlighted part is that they couldnt be mass produced. The Blasterfist in this example would take 5 looted items to make, it would use4 enhanced power cells that currently sell for about 1 million credits a piece and 1 nym's vibro blasde unit that you get for doing Jabba's themepark, currently worth about 20-50k... if the blasterfist were level 54 then the Nym's vibroblades would go upto at least 500k in value. So the loot to make it would be 4.5 million, that is why I guessed the final product would be 5-10 million. Look at a enhanced power Cell Advanced laser rifle sometime, this would take even more loot to make than one of those.

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