Teras Kasi Archive

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Siyja_Derahldr wrote:

Well, TKM are supposed to be better melee warriors than Commandos.

I only chose Commando as an example because the other poster used it as an example. Thepoint isthe Commando cannot hit due to def. mods stacking unless he gets within melee range. I'm not sure I can state it any clearer than that.

For sure, any ranged combat class against a melee class in close ranged combat will loose.

I'm speechless. So you are saying that if any Ranged class slips into a melee's range for a split second, the battle should be over, regardless of his armor/buffs/etc.? So if you get into a rifleman's ideal range for 1 second, you should always lose?

BHalso havea dizzy and a KD attack... What's the problem ?

Dizzy is the problem. Confusionshot(bh)+Chargedshot(carbineer) is just as bad. Same result as your KD/Dizzy. Other player can do nothing.

That's Commando's bugs and problem. Will you nerf all professions because yours are buggued ?

Again, it was used as an example. Other poster claimed that a Commando could easily beat him outside of melee range.

unarmedLunge2, it's a master brawler skill.

I think I already said it was a Brawler skill. I can only say it so many times. The point was that many TKMs use it prior to a KD/Dizzy autowin, and that with lag, 20m frequently isnt reported correctly anyway.

Btw, whining on the KD/Dizzy is like whining on commandos : "omg they can burn you, and there's nothing we can do to get rid of that,

No its not the same. Counter for Fire = Water (and soon Fire Extinguishers). Counter to KD/Dizzy = None. Def. vs. Dizzy is meaningless against the speed a TKM can spam it.

A TKM without dizzy against someone using his brain, and hit "burstrun". TKM looses everytime, i think.

So you are saying the only way you can ever win is byusing KD/Dizzy so the other person cannot fight back at all? I know some TKMs who would disagree with you. And don't TKMs have burstrun?

I would say instead : players who cries for nerf are most of the times players who just have been beaten, and are not good gamers.

So when Pistoleers could spam AOE non-timeredKDs and take out entire groups, those who complained were just not 'good gamers'? When Flamethrowers were treated as melee weapons and did truly massive damage, we all should have kept quiet? Please. If fun and balanced PvPwas a big part of the game for you, you wouldn't want these "I Win" moves in it either.

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My personal feeling on most of the "problem" moves is that they are fine in PvE but breakdown when it comes to PvP, and this is the problem most games that try to combine the two seem to come up against, its hard (if not impossible) to balance vs live and comp. controlled opponents.

Maybe what really needs to be done is make certain moves have differing effects whether used on a player or NPC, such as:

Any dizzy ability = dizzy on NPC, 2 sec stun on a player (30 sec timer)
Any knockdown ability = normal on NPC, much easier to resist on a player
Any delay ability at all = normal on NPC, half time on player

Basically any move that could be constituted as an "I win" move or one that denies the player any opportunity to retaliate at all (moves such as panic shot which is a delay is fine, though in pvp i'd think the duration should be cut a bit), but something like KD that removes any tactics for its duration, should be altered for PvP conflict.

I'm speechless. So you are saying that if any Ranged class slips into a melee's range for a split second, the battle should be over, regardless of his armor/buffs/etc.? So if you get into a rifleman's ideal range for 1 second, you should always lose?

U misunderstood me. I said a marksman against a brawler under the brawler combat range will loose (if he stays under brawler range). Else there would be nothing fun to be a brawler, everyone will be marksman (it's already difficult enough to hit a marksman who's fleeing)

Dizzy is the problem. Confusionshot(bh)+Chargedshot(carbineer) is just as bad. Same result as your KD/Dizzy. Other player can do nothing.

/agree on this point. In deed, currently even a dizzy+suppressionfire is enough to get the same result. It makes me believe dizzy is buggued. this wasnt such easy before to KD someone. In the other hand Dizzy on monsters dont work.

I think I already said it was a Brawler skill. I can only say it so many times. The point was that many TKMs use it prior to a KD/Dizzy autowin, and that with lag, 20m frequently isnt reported correctly anyway.

Ture, with lag 20m is often 40m.

So you are saying the only way you can ever win is byusing KD/Dizzy so the other person cannot fight back at all? I know some TKMs who would disagree with you. And don't TKMs have burstrun?

Again u misunderstood me. What i said is : a marksman burstrunning against a TKM burstrunning (unarmedLunge1&2 to stop them from running, but with no timer on posture change, it's pretty much meaningless.) And everyone know when someone start burstrun, with someone running at him. The follower will burstrun later, and the distance will be farther. So farther from the unarmedlunges (sometimes).

What i said is : a TKM attacking someone farther than brawler range should better flee.

So when Pistoleers could spam AOE non-timeredKDs and take out entire groups, those who complained were just not 'good gamers'? When Flamethrowers were treated as melee weapons and did truly massive damage, we all should have kept quiet? Please. If fun and balanced PvPwas a big part of the game for you, you wouldn't want these "I Win" moves in it either.

Again u miss something : i told most of the time. Currently PvP is unbalanced and not fun at all. (when 3 buffed guys can rule an entire city.... erm...)

But it's not a TK problem, it's a general PvP issue.

What I think TKA needs is not a nerf, but a restructure like Creature Handler got. CH skills were not nerfed at all, pets were... So, if TKA is balanced in the same manner as CH, it would be beneficial to both sides, ie moving around skills to prevent dabblers from getting the lucritive skills just to spam unarmed hit and KD/Dizzy, etc. I believe a TKM should be able to flatten any player in the game at close range, but dabblers shouldn't get all of the benefits. It's the dabblers that spam the same moves over and over, the dabblers and the hologrinders. The people mastering TKA because they like the profession fight with skill.

Again, it comes down to the fact that the ability to dabble into professions wasn't such a good one...

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Baalthazar wrote:
Well for one, why should they change the range of flamethrower specials? Have you ever seen a flame thrower used before? It doesn't shoot as far as a pistol my friend As for the dizzy knowdown...I duel my pistoleer friend all the time..and when i do get in range...on the odd occassion that when i use knockdown i don't get the "target out of range" message, i instead get the "you failed to know the oppenent down message". I always wait until my meter reads i am 8-10M away, but 9 out of 10 times, that's still not close enough..and since he's a zabby pistoleer..he has +100 defense against knockdown..so no, TKM is not overpowered

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You're right, a flame thrower does not shoot as far as a pistol. On the other hand, have you ever punched or kicked someone that was 8-10 meters away? How about 8-10 feet away?

I for one do not want to see the TKA profession nerfed. It is clearly the most unbalanced profession in the game, which is exactly why I want to jump on the band wagon after I drop BH.

I sift through these forums every day, and the thing that I find most ammusing is that here on the TKA board, every time someone mentions that you guys are WAY overpowered, it is met with a counter arguement that goes something like the following: "Any newbie with a CDEF pistol can own a TKA, just stay out of melee range". That's all fine and good if it helps you feel better about beating up on the rest of us, but please tell me how many of you are Master Pistoleers, or have the Smuggler pistol line? Do you think that it is "balanced" that as a TKA you can also master the Pistoleer and Smuggler professions as well? Hmm... The ability to master the most powerful profession in the game, and further complement that by mastering 2 more complete professions. Interresting.

Take me for example:
I am happily traversing up the tree of MBH, a profession made useless through nerfs, I come accross a TKA to duel. Logic tells me that this person is deadly within 15m, so forget the 0-15m range. That means that I won't be using any of my uber LLC specials. Well I will just have to follow the TKA advice from these boards and switch to pistols. I pull out the Scatter and begin to lay down some pistol fire. To my chagrin, the TKA I am fighting is also a master pistoleer. Well since I am a hybrid profession, it is unthinkable that I would be better with a pistol than a master pistoleer, so I am also screwed from the 15-64m range. So it's time for another strategy. Well the final course of action, assuming of course I am in a city, is to pull the swoop from my datapad and hope that I can haul my ass out of dodge before you one shot that thing into tomorrow. Any damage that I managed to land in the midst of your matrix-like dodging and weaving you were able to heal away by kneeling and and thinking happy thoughts.

My point, if any of you have read on this far without throwing the 1-star at me is the following:

There is no profession out there that can go toe to toe with a TKM from within their range, but on top of that they have enough skill points left over to master a ranged profession as well. This negates the only real weakness of the TKA profession, a single damage type. As long as you have taken advantage of your remaining skill points, you can become an unstopable force.

After having said all of that, I don't think that the TKA profession should be nerfed directly. I believe that the key to balance lays in the use of skill points. At the very least, TKA's should have to MASTER Brawler. That wouldn't be so bad would it? Most of you do it anyway for Warcry 2. I think that there should also be a medic pre-req since you have some incredible self-healing abilities. Maybe just add the 1st and 2nd tree of novice medic as pre-req's as well. This would not affect the TKA profession one bit, but it would go a long way toward striking a balance between the so-called "combat oriented professions".


In closing:

Have any of you actually ever been beaten by a newbie with a CDEF pistol? Or do you just assume that it could happen?

ok i agree with you on everything except one pont.the 25 meter kd.it makes no sense to me that a tk can punch someone from 25 meters away and kd them.thats the only reall issue i have with tk.the only nerf they should get is less range.and i know people complain about being kited but it makes sense to only be able to hit things close to you.and i would also like to point out to people that a tk is not godly.when i was a commando with flame 4 i had 50/50 chance of beating a tkm.great post!

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Siyja_Derahldr wrote:

All armor/buffs are negated by KD/Dizzy. May take longer, but KD/Dizzy still insures the win almost every time. Why won't you admit this?

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i wonderwhat would happen ifpeople put as much thought into solving real life issues as this game. what kind of problems could be resolved?