Teras Kasi Archive

Thread: The definitive answer on why TKs are perfectly balanced

_Flash_
Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:19 pm
#27

to make the nerdy whiners happy



------------------------------------------------------
Flash Woods - TKA / Jedi Nub / Pilot
SST : The oldest Imperial guild on the server OH NOES!
Peydro Sanchez - Pretty much the only PvPer who has a mustache

{gggggggggggggggxnnntnnnnnnntnnnxggggggggggggggg}
atone48732
Sat Feb 28, 2004 2:21 pm
#28

your probably right flash



damn whinners



Go find your own board and whine there please nononsense



leave us TKA's alone please



*sigh*





Oelos Takushi: smuggler proud member of Oi and Smugglers alliance pilot..

Elalia Takushi: Dancer and rebel pilot and member of Oi
bring back TEras Kasi and the melee profs as expertise skills.. bring some fun and real diversification to SWG
FlyingElmo
Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:12 am
#29

Heres an idea. Instead of crying nerf, cry balance. Instead of bringing other professions down, which always lead to people flocking to other unbalanced professions, have the developers bring your profession up.


For the people crying nerf, go back and read the original post. We have lots of different abilities to make up for one key thing: we only have one type of damage. If someone is geared to have a lot of kenetic defense, we are automatically dead unless they just cmopletely suck. And guess what? We can't do anything about it, because having that one type of damage is the trade off for our advantages.


Also, killing a Teras Kasi isn't hard. Just kite him. I don't know why all of the people who get into range of a teras kasi expect to get out of it alive. Riflemen kite me all the time, and its effective. It works. Bounty hunters do the same.


Every profession has its advantages and disadvantages. Fencers don't dole out a huge amount of damage, but they get armor piercing and suped up defenses. Swordsman have super mind bleeds and will simply own you in PvsP if they get a good one on you and are wearing armor.


For those that cry about us being able to target every pool, become a teras kasi and tell me how useful it is. Honestly. The only precision attack thats worth anything is mind hit, as all the others do too low of damage at too high of a ham cost to be useful. Thats why any TK can tell you, with the exception of mind hit they're only used as finishers.


I don't know what to tell you about meditation. It is nice, but remember, thats an entire tree worth of skillpoints that can't be used during combat. It servers no active combat purposes at all. Granted, you can powerboost before a fight (self buff for 300-500 for 10 minutes) or FoW after a fight, and while both of these are useful, they are a bit overrated. Powerboost helps to make up for the tremendous HAM costs of our attacks, but it only lasts 10 minutes, and at the rate we burn, thats exhausted fast.


Force of Will is a life saver, but more often that not, even if it does work....if someone has managed to incap you once, you're rarely going to keep from being incapped again. Sometimes you might be able to turn the tables on them, but odds are you'll be floored again. And thats when it does work...typically it wont work at all, or it will give you huge amounts of battle fatigue, wounds, and stat loss when you use it.


I know it must be frusterating for some of you guys, having come broken or unusefull classes. But instead of spending your energyflaming awell balanced, functioning class, you shouldspend time trying to get the developers to fix your broken class.
atone48732
Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:41 am
#30

wait a sec nononsense give me one good reason why TKA should not be in the game???


Why shouldn't it?



Oelos Takushi: smuggler proud member of Oi and Smugglers alliance pilot..

Elalia Takushi: Dancer and rebel pilot and member of Oi
bring back TEras Kasi and the melee profs as expertise skills.. bring some fun and real diversification to SWG
MarcusMassacre
Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:30 am
#31






WookFu wrote:


On the tka fencer crap,i am a master fencer and while i can dodge and evade some dizzy/kd, i usually end up going down as it is being spammed on me. Since i can't do enough dmg to the tka whom is usually either buffed and or wearing armor anywho, it is almost always at a lost.






okay **edit**. don't complain about TKA if they are buffed and wearing armor



GO NERF THE ARMORSMITHS AND DOCTORS



thankyou.







Teras Kasi , Scout, Medic, (holo) Dancer, (holo)Droid Engineer, (holo)Brawler, Artisan, Marksman, entertainer, smuggler
"If you can't beat 'em, nerf 'em" - Offical Motto of SOE Development Team
AurosBain
Sun Feb 29, 2004 2:45 am
#32

I remember when the game launched and the only reason to Master TK was because the concept was cool. We were so terribly broken (some worse than others) that it wasn't even funny. Then, they "fixed" Teras Kasi, and made actually good and viable. So, maybe in the process they might have made us overpowered, or maybe the current state of Teras Kasi was step one in the "fixing" of all professions. Whatever the case is, I love Teras Kasi. I loved it when it was broken, I love it when it works, and I'll love it after the nerf (or however they choose to "fix" us). I'd prefer they didn't nerf us. Anyone heard of the phrase "cut off your nose to spite your face?" Kinda seems appropriate.


I just wish we'd all stop bickering over this. Change comes slow in this game, and alot of people seem to see a lack of response as favortism. As I said before, maybe the current TK system is correct, and next they'll "fix" Pistoleer, and then the Pistoleer boards will be in flames because they are overpowered and "uber." [I could have easily have said Dancer or Bounty Hunter, but Pistoleer came to mind] Notice that Chefs got reworked recently? Just think what could happen when they rework another combat class. Personally, it excites me to see this progress, and it saddens me to read the forums.


This post might get ignored, it might get praised, and it might get slammed. Either way, this post and this thread is nothing more than meanless bickering that will get us nowhere.


*goes back to playing Knights of the Old Republic*
_Flash_
Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:35 am
#33






tometaophion wrote:

Women are fond of calling men names, believing that such insults are sufficient to disprove the testimony of truth, which such men profess.


Typical, and pathetic.


meet me point for point or stop with the stupid name calling it is childish, insipid, ultimately vulgar


I am growing tired of the entire notion of what is 'cool'. Analyzing the notion, one comes to find that 'cool' means conformity, and they call themselves rebels. lmao.


so get off your focking high horse you worthless trash.








You just contradicted yourself and called yourself a woman hahhahhahahah what a loser! Everyone point and laugh at him (edit) / her hahahahaha!!!

Message Edited by _Flash_ on 02-29-2004 01:35 PM



------------------------------------------------------
Flash Woods - TKA / Jedi Nub / Pilot
SST : The oldest Imperial guild on the server OH NOES!
Peydro Sanchez - Pretty much the only PvPer who has a mustache

{gggggggggggggggxnnntnnnnnnntnnnxggggggggggggggg}
tometaophion
Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:51 am
#34

I said women are fond of it, I did not say men do not do it. You need to read.



I am fond of lasagna


Must then you hate it?


Katryana
Sun Feb 29, 2004 11:58 am
#35






Nononsense wrote:

I don't givea rip about PvP since it's pointless. But even PvE is slanted to the TKA. You don't even have to chase MOBs because the game will make the characters drop their blasters and go brawlerif you don't shoot at them (I did unarmedto get smuggler, I know). IfTKA is so balanced please explain why:


1) TKA can target any HAM pool they want while a master pistoleer (MP) can only hit health?


It's a design decision. I can't explain it because I don't know what the designers of the game were thinking at the time they made that decision. That being said - UnarmedLeg Hit, and Unarmed Body hit are pretty muchworthless as they are right now. BodyShots 1/2/3 are much better.


2) TKA can dizzy, KD, blind, stun, and intimidate while a MP can only KD (and then only at point-blank range)?


Again, a design decision. Most likely those skills were added to the game to provide some level of "debuff", in order to make difficult targets easier to kill. And lets be clear here - Dizzy, KD,Blind, Stun and Intimidate are not exclusive to the TKA profession. Smugglers have a ranged Stun and KD. Bounty Hunters have ranged KD and Dizzy and Blind. Carbineer's also have a ranged KD. And Intimidate is a skillevery Novice Brawler gets.


3) TKA can beat the crap out of a Tusken Warlord in 4 seconds flat unbuffed, while an unbuffedMP will simply die?


I'm a Master Pistoleer. I know for fact I can kill a Tusken Warlord unbuffed. And I'll also kill any other Tuskens that happen to be standing next to that Warlord at the same time. Fan Shot is awesome when used properly. TKA is very powerful yes, but really only against Single Targets. If I need to kill a group of NPC's quickly, you better believe I'm using Pistoleer skills.


4) TKA can stop poisons, diseases, and bleeds, get up from an incap and heal damage while a MP can only die?


Another design decision. Until I played this game, I had never heard of Teras Kasi. Apparently according to the SW fiction,those innate abilities are part and parcel to being a TKA. It's easy to look at skills from another profession that are not present in your own, and say, "Why can't I do that?" The simple answer is - because the profession you chose wasn't designed to do those things. Not the answer we want to hear for sure, but most likely the answer the Dev Team will give.


If you're having problems surviving as a Master Pistoleer, perhaps the realproblem is Master Pistoleer?


Face it, some dev is a big fan of martial arts and wanted this character to have everything so it does. And that ain't balanced. Accept it, it's wrong fora profession that shouldn't even be in the game to be more powerful than a man with a blaster.

Actually, I think the Dev's are Star Wars fans. The Teras Kasi do exist in the Star Wars fiction. And if I'm not mistaken, they are pretty much the closest thing to being a Jedi, without actually being a Jedi.




"...it's wrong for a profession that shouldn't even be in the game..."


Now this statement I do agree with to some point. Real Life history has shown us that ranged warfare is the preferred method of combat. As time passed, the use of swords, knives etc, slowly gave way to the use of cannon, guns, and now missles and smart bombs. Todays modern armies use bladed or edged weapons for utility purposes, ceremonial functions or as a last resort, when the individual soldier runs out of bullets.


Now, Star Wars is a fictional universe. As such we can say, pretty much anything is possible. But the Star Wars I grew up with ( Episodes 4,5,6) is about laser blasters and spaceships! The only characters swinging swords were Jedi - people possessed of supernatural abilities that enabled them to block, evade, ordo someother hocus pocus on the guys with the guns.Everybody else had guns.


I don't know why the Dev Team decided to introduce melee professions into a game based on ranged combat. Maybe they thought it would be cool, or maybe someone important at SOE thought it would attract players from other MMORPG's I have no idea. But by doing so, they have created the problem we face now - how to balance laser guns vs. fists/sticks/knives, in a way that makes sense and is fair to everyone.


Now to compare Pistoleer to TK isn't fair. As a Master Gunfighter I know that Pistoleer is pathetically broken. A bunch of special attacks don't work at all, almost every other ranged profession can shoot as fast as we can, and a slew of other issues. TK on the other hand, is one of those rare professions that is almost 100% working as intended. I just cant agree with saying that TK is overbalanced, when looking at it from the viewpoint of a busted profession. I do think that some tuning is needed for TK, but only after everyone else is brought in line.


To try and put things into perspective, imagine this scenario -A homebuilderconstructs 2 houses. The construction on the 1st house goes well and upon completion, the house is simply beautiful. Spanish tiling, vaulted ceilings, solar heated pools, the works. The construction on the 2nd home doesn't go so well. His dog dies, the crew quits, whatever. The 2nd home upon "completion" is a shambles. The plumbing leaks, windows are missing or broken, holes in the floor etc. What does the homebuilder do? Does he go back to the1st house and start tearing things up, so it matches the 2nd house? No, he fixes the 2nd house.


As a MasterGunfighter I feel your pain, believe me. I know Pistoleers need a lot of work. But I'm not going to accuse a profession that works of being "overpowerful" or "not balanced". TKA isn't in dire need of fixing, other combat professions are.








Master Smuggler
Master Gunfighter
Teras Kasi Master
Smoosher of all things Imperial

...you might die, but hell they can't eat you...
AurosBain
Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:31 pm
#36


Not everyone used blasters. Many of the melee weaponshave bases in the movies. From Jabba's Gamoreans (sp?) to the Emperor's royal guard. If the Royal Guard's primary weapon was the Vibro Lance there must be something to it. However, it is onlythe guard characters that use melee weapons, but I am sure the Royal Guard knows how to lay the smackdown with one of those things.


However, you do bring up a good point though, that before TK gets "fixed," the other classes need to bebrought up to speed first.

Message Edited by AurosBain on 02-29-2004 01:33 PM

dimmu-borgir
Sun Feb 29, 2004 12:54 pm
#37






tometaophion wrote:

Which part is bs 'dear'


The force crystal cave is now officially pa only, btw, a further pandering of the devs, to hamper the individual gamer, and a harbinger of the changes to come, nothing will be done except in groups. I do not work in groups in real life. I do not do it online. DEATH TO ALL PLAYERS ASSOCIATIONS AND PLAYER CITIES. Complete Bs, 3 of them have exploited since launch, hundreds of players have been banned for known bugs, yet the pandering continues in the interest in player participation. Go Right To Hell.







perhaps you might want to try the rifleman forums as well, plenty of whiners and nerfherders there.


as for the tka, i do believe that you are quite balanced, sure, kd dizzy is extremely powerful, but, with the timers on knockdowns, if you miss, your screwed.


not to mention, you have to reach melee range, along with ar0 or ar1 and only kenetic, and well, composite armor makes it extremly hard for you to get damage through... and anyways, there are many tactics that can be used against you... such as:


dizzy and burst run to kite: unable to burst run while dizzy, i can therefore get farther away from you than you can, meanwhile im wailing on you wiht my ranged weapon of choice


doctors and /curestate dizzy packs: cure dizzy, stand up, commence smackdown


as a rifleman, i feel your pain of the fotm and defense stackers, but, when the stacking nerf comes, and when they fix the bug that gives us uber melee defense, were also a balanced profession, sure were long range death and quite fast, but we are good when we should be, at master. sure, we have stun damage, but doesnt fencer? doesnt pistoleer? Sure, we have high damage, but we have next to no defensive abilities, and assuming im a pure rifleman, as soon as you hit melee range, im on my ass and getting smacked around. so please, think before you cry nerf.





Dimmu Borgir

I art in thine base

Slaying thine doodz

tometaophion
Sun Feb 29, 2004 1:14 pm
#38

Women are fond of calling men names, believing that such insults are sufficient to disprove the testimony of truth, which such men profess.


Typical, and pathetic.


meet me point for point or stop with the stupid name calling it is childish, insipid, ultimately vulgar


I am growing tired of the entire notion of what is 'cool'. Analyzing the notion, one comes to find that 'cool' means conformity, and they call themselves rebels. lmao.


so get off your focking high horse you worthless trash.


Ahernia
Sun Feb 29, 2004 3:27 pm
#39

To bring other professions up to TKA level would require each and every one of them to have an equivalent 'meditate' tree. TKA are not as dependant as other brawler classes and this is not fair. Since you have a lot of state heals and enhancements in one tree, it really doesn't leave much for the other professions to have to bring us up to your level. So the only logical thing to do is bring you down to a level that other professions can be brought up to. This would be called a nerf.



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