Teras Kasi Archive

Thread: Focus Thread: Innate Armour vs Battle Armour The Armour Break Debate

Giant2005
Mon Sep 12, 2005 2:44 am
#27

Bottom line - TKMs are meant to be the best tanks of the game, a new skill to make them equal to other classes isn't going to make them the best, if they are to give us anything along the lines of an AB protection, whatever it is it would have to be over 75% otherwise we aren't the "best" merely the cheapest



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Iwifia
Mon Sep 12, 2005 8:41 am
#28

i like the power boost idea. remake force of will into the AB counter move and take it to master box



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Martimus
Wed Sep 14, 2005 3:52 am
#29



noothername wrote:
ok my 2 cents tkm's have armor that doesnt require maintanence and is 6000 resist. the price it costs to compare to that with slices vs. armor break and 6000+ battle armor is about 1mil credits and if your like me you will be in many battles and over a short time your armor will be useless and having an upkeep of 1mil every month or so just isnt worth it to me. i say let things stay the way they are i do just fine i may not be the best but at least im not broke, i mean you could get atleast 3 ADK's for the 3 main parts of the armor and do just fine for a long time but so can a tkm, duel master melee so its not a big deal. besides imo your not a great melee unless your tkm and either fencer, swordman, or pikeman neway. this is just my opinion and my server is shadowfire where a decent suit of riz battle armor costs 8mil credits and a good 6k resist battle armor suit of maurader armor costs about 400-600k, ADK's run about 13mil a piece, and the smugglers do full slices for 250k+ per item.





You do not need MTK to get the best melee template. It is far more effective to dabble in TK and take Sword/Pike/Fencer instead and wear armor. A lot of us want to get this fixed and make sure that MTK is indeed the most effective(and not the cheapest) tank in the game...

Haha...Maybe next patch smugglers will be able to slice our innate armor Of course it may hurt a bit..



"If it aint broken, fix it until it is! (nge)"

Skill based system, turn based combat, Teras Kasi, Creature Handler, 
Ranger, BioEnginer, Swordsman, Fencer, Pikeman, Brawler, Riflemen,
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and entertainers that matter, professional interdependence. People,
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MrDecipher
Wed Sep 14, 2005 10:32 am
#30

Add a Armour Break recovery thing like KD recovery with a high action or mind cost.



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Chaosium_451
Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:07 pm
#31

Ok, I've been thinking about this a lot. Too much perhaps...


It makes sense to me that someone might be able to "shake us up" a little so our defences are weakened for a few moments. It makes sense - the kind of defensive training we would have is based on concentration and focus. Shake that, and the defences would weaken as a result. So, it makes sense that armour break would affect us.


Having said that, it makes sense to me as well to put in an AB recovery skill in either meditation 4, or in the master box. So, if the AB lands, it lands for full effect. But we have a chance to recover from that statejust like any other.





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Mankind00
Thu Sep 15, 2005 4:23 pm
#32

Keep this coming guys, I've been quiet I know but I'm very much reading everything in here as often as I can.

If you could I'd really like to see everyones opinions on all the other ideas. It's all well & good saying 'I think it should be this that or the other' but I really (as I said in the original post) can't see the devs listening to anything that is an innate ability (ie included in CoB). Thats not to say don't say you like that idea, just give feed back on the other ideas you've seen as well.




Just want to throw in my own thoughts on something...

For those who think 'innate armour should be unbreakable', if you get hit with something no matter how tough you are it makes a mark when you're looking at combat like this. Like wise you get burnt the spot becomes a weakspot, you get shot, someone touches that bit hard it's gonna hurt alot more then it would if you hadn't been shot... The thing is just in our case as opposed to it breaking our armour, it's breaking us. We're not Superman, we're just people who are skilled at what we do, we can still be hurt just like anyone else...

Just my opinion on that but I felt it worth mentioning...




Anyway come on guys - need more feedback!

& I'll add the other ideas (CoB - AB Recovery) to the list later (along with my own opinions on them).



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Martimus
Thu Sep 15, 2005 10:28 pm
#33



Let me take another stab at this...In general this situation is quite messy.. AB slice was a terrible idea to start with. It was clearly designed to help BH fight Jedi. Unfortunately all melee professions (TK and Sword specially) got screwed in the process. Melee professions lost the offensive edge in PVP that AB gives us vs anyone who wears armor. The only real tangible benefit of being master TK is our convenient and cheap innate armor. (the rest of our specials/skills are a complete mess) Master TK was trivialized by the fact that anyone who wanted to do any serious PVP needed AB sliced armor.

I think I can speak for the community that most of us would like to see some improvement at Master TK Level... Advanced COB with AB resist would certainly help this situation.

AB recovery would also be interesting. Ideally it would work only when you have no armor equipped and it should be in the Master Box. Its action cost would have to be balanced so the skill is worth using, but not completely free. It is easy for your opponent to re-apply AB every time you would use the recovery. If this skill takes too much action /mind it will not be worth using.

If this fix is introduced as a food then I guarantee it will not be TK exclusive. (Do you really think they will add a new tkinnatearmorabresist skill) This translates into Jedi gaining a
boost vs standard melee professions. I am not for or against this, simply stating the obvious. The same thing would apply to any clothing attachments, or tailor made clothing.

Many of us feel that TK should be an iconic martial artist and rely on their own skills and devices to deal with combat. We love the fact that we don't have to wear armor. Developers decided to give TK the role of the best TANK in the game. This means that NOBODY (Mdef excluded) with or without armor should be as good at avoiding/taking damage as Master TK. Currently this is not the case. TK dabblers in armor are just as good as Master TK , and have more powerful templates because of all the leftover points.

Your concern was that devs would not go for it because of the fact that we can wear armor with AB slices ourselves, and that we are super-good because of our armor does not decay:

1.Yes we can wear armor with AB, but what is the point of being MTK then ? Is MTK good only for innate armor ?
2.Our armor does not decay. This is great.. Neither does ADKed armor, and it will have better stats, and it will have AB resists, and you can drop MTK...
Sure armor will cost you few mill, and at least 3 ADKs for another 30mil.. Is this how much MTK+ is worth 40mil..? Anyone with more money doesn't need it ?

This is some of the things we should be bringing to developers attention when asking for AB resists.




"If it aint broken, fix it until it is! (nge)"

Skill based system, turn based combat, Teras Kasi, Creature Handler, 
Ranger, BioEnginer, Swordsman, Fencer, Pikeman, Brawler, Riflemen,
Pistoleer, Carbineer, Scout. Skill, true Jedi, working economy, crafter
and entertainers that matter, professional interdependence. People,
inovation, originality, and fun....

vtg
Fri Sep 16, 2005 12:29 am
#34

Personally,I think innate armor should be unbreakable.
DATA-LUX
Fri Sep 16, 2005 1:55 am
#35

Think I must redo a comment on this:

- Robes -- No I don't want a Jedi clone robe or such with buff effects on it, if need to wear only 1 specific cloth then we're jedi clones without force or it's like a armor cert...

- Innate protection against AB -- No not overpowering but straight to the point the way it should be and that in termes of avoiding the attack. I could be added in 1 or through some of our branches, with, maybe around 80% avoidness bonus

- Alternative Power Boost -- No quite a solution and then why 2 at master, then a imp. PB would be a better proposal but it should not break the PB

- Foods -- Again foods? Think I need a 300 Item backpack soon with all this food, drink and spice you need to play the game :/ with CU the doc buff where reduced and now it's te time where the this buffs takes over...

- No change -- Then why keeping the prof? we have nearly no specials, better armor around then innate, no BF to get, and with 0200 I've more SP to spend in other profs... because our "great" innate armor is nearly worthless if the mobs hit you 100% of the time :/ we should have more avoidness, due to our role or a better innate armor.




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ZeroTolerance881
Sun Sep 18, 2005 12:59 am
#36

I'm liking the center of being Idea


I think Improved should be straight removed and put to master



Improved should give 500 defense and resists to AB


or make an Advanced but either way move The Improved up



right now its one of the requirements of beinga good PVP template


just like armor break is


they've created another dizzy KD



Its odd how they made a slice against it instead of fixing it


a slice vs1 profession in the game


makes it seem obvious that they KNOW everyone is useing the Swordsman AB



they need to move stronger skills higher and get things like Improved Sword flury out of the master box


that'd fix more of the AB problems than you'd think



but then again it'd also create more Swordsman Flavor of the monthers than before




TK just needs a serious look at


IMO the biggest help would be


you cant AB a sucka with no armor on


defenders deserve it too, but if not just TK


we are shafted after all....





WhiteTrash
jonpaul ingro

Zephid_the_BattleMaster
Sun Sep 18, 2005 5:12 am
#37


i think only physical armor should be affected by armor brake and as tka wears no physical armor which can be broken by a hit, tka should be immune to armor brake. and in general armor brake should only brake the armor piece that it hit, not every piece of armor. eg ifplayer A hits PlayerB with armorbrake which hits chest plate then only chestplates armor rating should be reduced not every piece of armor that player wear.

Message Edited by Zephid_the_BattleMaster on 09-18-2005 04:26 PM

Giant2005
Sun Sep 18, 2005 10:33 am
#38






Zephid_the_BattleMaster wrote:


i think only physical armor should be affected by armor brake and as tka wears no physical armor which can be broken by a hit, tka should be immune to armor brake. and in general armor brake should only brake the armor piece that it hit, not every piece of armor. eg ifplayer A hits PlayerB with armorbrake which hits chest plate then only chestplates armor rating should be reduced not every piece of armor that player wear.

Message Edited by Zephid_the_BattleMaster on 09-18-2005 04:26 PM




AB should work against the Teras Kasi in my mind and master defenders also as their armor is something that is created in the mind through concentration, and if u get hit in the head hard enough you are going to lose that concentration



TASCA
Colonel of the Rebel Army
Master of the Ancient Art of the Teras Kasi
Best looking Trandoshan in all of Bria
Creator of the Worst Sig in Bria

Jessalyn_Bohicat
Sun Sep 18, 2005 8:52 pm
#39

you cant make it a food that any one can use, because then people with armor break sliced armor will also use the food, thus beinging us back to where we were... them > us. lol

i think an Advanced Center of Being would be great, and this is how i see it working.:

Advanced Center of Being - This will allow your character to focus on avoiding more combat blows. Also reduces armor break effectiveness by x%***. Can Be Activated While Moving. Requires TKM + unarmed or melee weapon equipped.

*** x% being what ever the slice for it is on regular armor, i am not aware having never had armor sliced before


perhaps also raise the defense of cob to 650 at master box or soemfin.. i dunno

but for the love of god, i jsut really wanna have cob used while i move.. i dont even care about anything else at this point.. just that >< dont stand still in pvp is tarded.. im a combat soldier, not a nambypamby ePeen flexing starport dueslist. /end-tantrum

Message Edited by Jessalyn_Bohicat on 09-18-2005 08:56 PM









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