Teras Kasi Archive
Thread: TKA isn't really that amazing. Nerf it...why?
Siciliano wrote:
Well, I am a TKM and I'm probably one of the best TKMs on the server. In PVP I have no problem killing someone with 80% Kin. comp armor. It's all about the skill to execute the right move at the right time,combat tactics, foods, drinks and your other equipment needed to win. I also have a Master Bounty Hunter who is the best BH on my server. Again...you got to have skill to operate a profession beyond it' limits =). My Master BH/Master Carbineer can take out a fully buffed TKM/stacker with Advance Comp. armor while I am unbuffed. Learn to use your profession right.
I disagree on the fact that you can take out a person wearing 80% kinetic resist using TKA. As has been mentioned throughout this post, TKA is a kinetic damage profession. Therefore you cannot defeat someone wearing that high of a resist who is fully buffed just using TKA. Also you mentioned something about skill. There is no skill in this game. Like you mentioned it all depends on your equipment.
If I'm wearing my high kinetic and stun resist armor along with my million + credit Geo. weapon then it's a safe bet that I will win more often then not. All you have to do is press F1-F12 to win in combat. There is no skill involved because you auto-attack. So if you had two TKM's go at it with no VK's, unbuffed, and with no armor on it would depend more on luck then any skill if you won. Generally whoever gets the first shot off in combat wins. No skill required.
Fixing:
-Bounty Hunter
-Smuggler
-Pikeman
-Ranger
Nerfing:
-Rifleman
"So let's see beyond the ackley baton fevcer has no good weapons for PvP, though gaffis do more base damage the lack of AP cuts down the damage by half."
Batons also have no AP.
"Now for defenses TKM's have so much toughness that they can tank about anything while fecners can't, let's not forget which combat profession can heal it's own wounds, self buff all 3 main pools and recover from incap! You guys never look at it that way, i say TK could use a bit of nerfing for the fact if all professions were at that level then the game would be even easier for combat masters"
You're conveniently forgetting that we don't get to dodge. We have defense acuity which is pathetic compared to real evasion. You also forget we have no strong pool-targetting attack, no area of effect states, no bleeds, and many mobs we simply can't hurt due to the lack of a non-kinetic weapon. For every advantage TKA has, we have a corresponding disadvantage.
Djena wrote:
Hoavomo wrote:
Siciliano wrote:
Well, I am a TKM and I'm probably one of the best TKMs on the server. In PVP I have no problem killing someone with 80% Kin. comp armor. It's all about the skill to execute the right move at the right time,combat tactics, foods, drinks and your other equipment needed to win. I also have a Master Bounty Hunter who is the best BH on my server. Again...you got to have skill to operate a profession beyond it' limits =). My Master BH/Master Carbineer can take out a fully buffed TKM/stacker with Advance Comp. armor while I am unbuffed. Learn to use your profession right.
I disagree on the fact that you can take out a person wearing 80% kinetic resist using TKA. As has been mentioned throughout this post, TKA is a kinetic damage profession. Therefore you cannot defeat someone wearing that high of a resist who is fully buffed just using TKA. Also you mentioned something about skill. There is no skill in this game. Like you mentioned it all depends on your equipment.
If I'm wearing my high kinetic and stun resist armor along with my million + credit Geo. weapon then it's a safe bet that I will win more often then not. All you have to do is press F1-F12 to win in combat. There is no skill involved because you auto-attack. So if you had two TKM's go at it with no VK's, unbuffed, and with no armor on it would depend more on luck then any skill if you won. Generally whoever gets the first shot off in combat wins. No skill required.
I have taken down people in 80% kinetic comp in duels more than once, it can be done and skillis involved in those cases. I have substandard equipment (I PvP without armor)yet I often win from fully armored, very well-equipped fullydefense stacked templates. You can't do that without skill, it's not because I get the first hit in, though I often do but KD/dizzy rarely sticks against adecent PvP'er.Knowing the right combination of F1-F12 (and shift + F-keys)equals skill. A TKM who fights with only hit3 and KD/Dizzy has no skill, a TKM who knows when to use which special has skill (and probably has about16-20 keys ready to be used).
Having good equipment (eg. a very good geo pistol) but not knowing what you're doing (i.e. spamming eyeshot against someone with a stun helmet and PSG) won't let you win against someone who knows the strengths and weaknesses of his class. Granted the guy with perfect equipment will win more often than not in fights butwill have a very hard timeagainst someone who knows what he's doing.
TKM has a problem against those PvP'ers with 90% kinetic armor andsynthsteak, who know exactly what they are doing. Not against your average PvP'er who got himself an 80% comp and thinks he's safe now. Enough examples of these guys are running around the TK boards thinking that TKM is an automatic win in PvP. The only point where equipment equals win is when you're a DOT monkey and then combat does indeednot require any skill at all except for knowing how to switch weapons.
What do you mean 16-20 hotkeys? The only useful attacks for TKA are KD/dizzy, Unarmed3, Intimidate, Blind, and Stun. I put my blind and stun into one macro and the rest of my specials are in their own F key. So where you get the other 11 specials from I do not know. And your argument is still flawed. Because I never lose a fight against someone using TKA on me one on one when I have my 80% suit on. He can kick and punch me all he wants, but he only ticks 5-10 points off at a time. When I'm fully buffed he wears himself down to incapp and I just finish the job.
The point about the pistol and the stun helmet is correct, butI only brought it up to make my point that this game requires no skill when it comes to combat in the sense that you do not have to "aim" your weapon to hit anything. The combat system does that for you and it's your skill mods that determine how accurate you are. What makes you good at combat in this game is the quality of your equipement. If you use a cdef pistol you will lose EVERY time in high level PvP. But if you have a good suit of armor that protects you against kinetic and stun you will be very hard to kill.
On top of that, stack some skill mods like dodge, and buffs and brandy and steak and you're basically unstoppable. This is why they are coming out with a combat balance. Not because TKA is unbalanced, but because the combat system on a whole is unbalanced.
Message Edited by Hoavomo on 09-01-2004 09:14 AM
Hoavomo wrote:
What do you mean 16-20 hotkeys? The only useful attacks for TKA are KD/dizzy, Unarmed3, Intimidate, Blind, and Stun.
I beg to differ! If those are the only specials you use you are not being the best TKA you can be. I'll give some examples:
Combo1 has been shown to hit the health pool more often than any other specials and has lower HAM cost.
Spamming Unarmed 3 is an inefficient way of taking anything down. You can do more DPS by using unarmed 2 or targeting a pool and then using Unarmed 3 as the finishing move. Usually when I see one of the pools get really low that's when I will hit Unarmed 3 for the quick finish.
When KD2 fails to stick and the timer starts, you still have the option of using Dizzy Strike till it sticks and Lunge 1, which is on a different timer.
Most TKAs immediately go for the Dizzy+KD when your first priority should be warcry and sticking states, especially and most importantly intimidate.
Combo 2 is a good way to find out which HAM pool is buffed the most (usually mind).
So yes, good TKAs have a lot of toolbar slot options at their disposal. UnarmedHit3 spammers give themselves away as inexperienced and/or ignorant of how to use their skills.
Hoavomo wrote:
Djena wrote:
I have taken down people in 80% kinetic comp in duels more than once, it can be done and skillis involved in those cases. I have substandard equipment (I PvP without armor)yet I often win from fully armored, very well-equipped fullydefense stacked templates. You can't do that without skill, it's not because I get the first hit in, though I often do but KD/dizzy rarely sticks against adecent PvP'er.Knowing the right combination of F1-F12 (and shift + F-keys)equals skill. A TKM who fights with only hit3 and KD/Dizzy has no skill, a TKM who knows when to use which special has skill (and probably has about16-20 keys ready to be used).
Having good equipment (eg. a very good geo pistol) but not knowing what you're doing (i.e. spamming eyeshot against someone with a stun helmet and PSG) won't let you win against someone who knows the strengths and weaknesses of his class. Granted the guy with perfect equipment will win more often than not in fights butwill have a very hard timeagainst someone who knows what he's doing.
TKM has a problem against those PvP'ers with 90% kinetic armor andsynthsteak, who know exactly what they are doing. Not against your average PvP'er who got himself an 80% comp and thinks he's safe now. Enough examples of these guys are running around the TK boards thinking that TKM is an automatic win in PvP. The only point where equipment equals win is when you're a DOT monkey and then combat does indeednot require any skill at all except for knowing how to switch weapons.
What do you mean 16-20 hotkeys? The only useful attacks for TKA are KD/dizzy, Unarmed3, Intimidate, Blind, and Stun. I put my blind and stun into one macro and the rest of my specials are in their own F key. So where you get the other 11 specials from I do not know. And your argument is still flawed. Because I never lose a fight against someone using TKA on me one on one when I have my 80% suit on. He can kick and punch me all he wants, but he only ticks 5-10 points off at a time. When I'm fully buffed he wears himself down to incapp and I just finish the job.
The point about the pistol and the stun helmet is correct, butI only brought it up to make my point that this game requires no skill when it comes to combat in the sense that you do not have to "aim" your weapon to hit anything. The combat system does that for you and it's your skill mods that determine how accurate you are. What makes you good at combat in this game is the quality of your equipement. If you use a cdef pistol you will lose EVERY time in high level PvP. But if you have a good suit of armor that protects you against kinetic and stun you will be very hard to kill.
On top of that, stack some skill mods like dodge, and buffs and brandy and steak and you're basically unstoppable. This is why they are coming out with a combat balance. Not because TKA is unbalanced, but because the combat system on a whole is unbalanced.
Message Edited by Hoavomo on 09-01-2004 09:14 AM
"You can do more DPS by using unarmed 2 or targeting a pool and then using Unarmed 3 as the finishing move."
That is untrue, about UH2 having better DPS than UH3. UH3 does more damage, and speed is irrelevant when everything we do is at 1 second per attack. It's true that something like Head Hit is much better than UH3 in PvP. I use that to destroy people.
"Most TKAs immediately go for the Dizzy+KD when your first priority should be warcry and sticking states, especially and most importantly intimidate."
True. I warcry when I can, and definitely use Intimidate2 first thing. Nobody in this game has a good resistance to Intimidate, even the best defense stackers, because no profession gives a good defense. You can rely on that when you can't rely on anything else.
Atama wrote:
"You can do more DPS by using unarmed 2 or targeting a pool and then using Unarmed 3 as the finishing move."
That is untrue, about UH2 having better DPS than UH3. UH3 does more damage, and speed is irrelevant when everything we do is at 1 second per attack. It's true that something like Head Hit is much better than UH3 in PvP. I use that to destroy people.
Thank you for pointing out my mistake here, what I meant to convey in that sentence was that unarmed 2 has lower HAM cost and is more efficient at taking down a MOB. I don't know why I wrote DPS lol. Some will argue that this is a moot point with buffs, but I don't fight buffed all of the time because I was a TK before the buff craze started. I really believe that when the combat revamp comes that UA3 spammers are in for a rude awakening.
I would recommend that everyone spend a week away from the buff line and go fight some mid-to-high level MOBs. You will quickly learn the value of your other skills and will be a better player for it.
We are amazing at mid to low end PvE, and we can tank really well against high end PvE but we can't kill it. And in PvP we are dangerous until the moment someone puts on armor with decent kinetic resists.In other words, we have a lot of power, but it can be well protected against and countered. Basically we are balanced.
The only thing I can think of that really needs to be "adjusted" for TKA as things stand at the moment, is the fact that you can master TKA very very fast. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is out of line with the other combat professions a decent bit.
The only way to really solve this problem without actually nerfing our damage output or speed is to just remove the cert from novice TKA and put it at Master or on one of skill trees, more likely the one that takes combat xp. Now I'm not recommending the Devs to do this but this would solve the problem, thats also the way they solved the issue about unarmed being so fast to get when the VKs were givenat brawler level and everyone that has had to go up unarmed now, know of big of a pain the xp for that is now.
* Unarmedheadhit
* Unarmedblind
* Intimidate
* Unarmedstun
* Unarmeddizzy
* Lunge1
* Unarmedknockdown2
Someone's been peeking at my toolbar!
Hoavomo wrote:
What do you mean 16-20 hotkeys? The only useful attacks for TKA are KD/dizzy, Unarmed3, Intimidate, Blind, and Stun. I put my blind and stun into one macro and the rest of my specials are in their own F key. So where you get the other 11 specials from I do not know.